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Photographer cited, had drone confiscated for documenting Hart Island mass burials with his drone



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 17th 20, 07:51 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alfred Molon[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,591
Default Photographer cited, had drone confiscated for documenting Hart Island mass burials with his drone

Here is an article on the matter:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/069755...grapher-cited-
drone-documenting-hart-island-mass-burials-with-his-drone

I bought an inexpensive drone last year, to give a try to drone
photography. Until now I haven't been able to take interesting
shots with it. For a reason or another in most places it's
forbidden to use drones.
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
https://groups.io/g/myolympus
https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
  #2  
Old April 17th 20, 10:04 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Neil[_9_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 521
Default Photographer cited, had drone confiscated for documenting HartIsland mass burials with his drone

On 4/17/2020 2:51 PM, Alfred Molon wrote:
Here is an article on the matter:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/069755...grapher-cited-
drone-documenting-hart-island-mass-burials-with-his-drone

I bought an inexpensive drone last year, to give a try to drone
photography. Until now I haven't been able to take interesting
shots with it. For a reason or another in most places it's
forbidden to use drones.
"He was cited for violating NYC Administrative Code § 10–126, which

prohibits the takeoff and landing of drones within New York City (NYC)."

Steinmetz wrote in response:
"‘I’m not trying to be an advocate, but my encounter with the NYPD [on
Tuesday] was not about any safety or privacy considerations that I
assume the law was designed for."

1) Perhaps Steinmetz doesn't realize that this response serves no other
purpose than advocacy (free press, open distribution of information,
etc.). Or he's lying.

2) Laws regarding drones are not arbitrary and open to user definitions.
He violated the law, and lost his drone. Boo Hoo. Ironically, had he
been able to fly his paraglider over the scene to take the shots, he
probably would not have been cited at all, providing that he didn't
violate other airspace restrictions.

I am really tired of folks that think they can do whatever they want
with their drones.

--
best regards,

Neil
  #3  
Old April 17th 20, 11:42 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alan Browne[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 696
Default Photographer cited, had drone confiscated for documenting HartIsland mass burials with his drone

On 2020-04-17 14:51, Alfred Molon wrote:
Here is an article on the matter:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/069755...grapher-cited-
drone-documenting-hart-island-mass-burials-with-his-drone


Hart Island is a park belonging to NYC and is within the boundaries of NYC.

New York City—Administrative Code § 10-126(c) // 2017

This administrative code makes it unlawful for any person avigating an
aircraft (including drones) to take off or land, except in an emergency,
at any place within the limits of the city other than places of landing
designated by the department of transportation or the port of New York
authority. To avigate is defined in the code as “To pilot, steer,
direct, fly, or manage an aircraft in or through the air, whether
controlled from the ground or otherwise.”

New York City—City Restriction // 2017

This city restriction declares that drones are illegal to fly in New
York City, and advises anyone who sees a drone being flown to call 911.


As it happens I'll be flying both my drones tomorrow... legally.
  #4  
Old April 17th 20, 11:45 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alan Browne[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 696
Default Photographer cited, had drone confiscated for documenting HartIsland mass burials with his drone

On 2020-04-17 17:04, Neil wrote:
On 4/17/2020 2:51 PM, Alfred Molon wrote:
Here is an article on the matter:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/069755...grapher-cited-
drone-documenting-hart-island-mass-burials-with-his-drone

I bought an inexpensive drone last year, to give a try to drone
photography. Until now I haven't been able to take interesting
shots with it. For a reason or another in most places it's
forbidden to use drones.
"He was cited for violating NYC Administrative Code § 10–126, which

prohibits the takeoff and landing of drones within New York City (NYC)."

Steinmetz wrote in response:
"‘I’m not trying to be an advocate, but my encounter with the NYPD [on
Tuesday] was not about any safety or privacy considerations that I
assume the law was designed for."

1) Perhaps Steinmetz doesn't realize that this response serves no other
purpose than advocacy (free press, open distribution of information,
etc.). Or he's lying.

2) Laws regarding drones are not arbitrary and open to user definitions.
He violated the law, and lost his drone. Boo Hoo. Ironically, had he
been able to fly his paraglider over the scene to take the shots, he
probably would not have been cited at all, providing that he didn't
violate other airspace restrictions.

I am really tired of folks that think they can do whatever they want
with their drones.


Most drone laws are over the top arbitrary. Canada is much worse than
the US in that respect. (I'm licensed in Canada and registered in the US).

The photographer only violated the NYC restriction which is largely
(like 99.99%) unenforced as long as operators comply with the FAA rules
(which are subject to interpretation depending on the sort of operation
you're doing...).
  #5  
Old April 18th 20, 10:43 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Neil[_9_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 521
Default Photographer cited, had drone confiscated for documenting HartIsland mass burials with his drone

On 4/17/2020 6:45 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2020-04-17 17:04, Neil wrote:
On 4/17/2020 2:51 PM, Alfred Molon wrote:
Here is an article on the matter:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/069755...grapher-cited-
drone-documenting-hart-island-mass-burials-with-his-drone

I bought an inexpensive drone last year, to give a try to drone
photography. Until now I haven't been able to take interesting
shots with it. For a reason or another in most places it's
forbidden to use drones.
"He was cited for violating NYC Administrative Code § 10–126, which

prohibits the takeoff and landing of drones within New York City (NYC)."

Steinmetz wrote in response:
"‘I’m not trying to be an advocate, but my encounter with the NYPD [on
Tuesday] was not about any safety or privacy considerations that I
assume the law was designed for."

1) Perhaps Steinmetz doesn't realize that this response serves no
other purpose than advocacy (free press, open distribution of
information, etc.). Or he's lying.

2) Laws regarding drones are not arbitrary and open to user
definitions. He violated the law, and lost his drone. Boo Hoo.
Ironically, had he been able to fly his paraglider over the scene to
take the shots, he probably would not have been cited at all,
providing that he didn't violate other airspace restrictions.

I am really tired of folks that think they can do whatever they want
with their drones.


Most drone laws are over the top arbitrary.* Canada is much worse than
the US in that respect.* (I'm licensed in Canada and registered in the US).

The photographer only violated the NYC restriction which is largely
(like 99.99%) unenforced as long as operators comply with the FAA rules
(which are subject to interpretation depending on the sort of operation
you're doing...).


OK, so it's clear which side of the fence you're standing on. ;-D As a
private pilot, I'm standing on the other side of that fence. When I see
drone users violating the laws, I think the punishment is totally
inadequate. As in too far short of a 9mm in their heads. ;-)

--
best regards,

Neil
  #6  
Old April 18th 20, 06:39 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alan Browne[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 696
Default Photographer cited, had drone confiscated for documenting HartIsland mass burials with his drone

On 2020-04-18 05:43, Neil wrote:
On 4/17/2020 6:45 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2020-04-17 17:04, Neil wrote:
On 4/17/2020 2:51 PM, Alfred Molon wrote:
Here is an article on the matter:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/069755...grapher-cited-
drone-documenting-hart-island-mass-burials-with-his-drone

I bought an inexpensive drone last year, to give a try to drone
photography. Until now I haven't been able to take interesting
shots with it. For a reason or another in most places it's
forbidden to use drones.
"He was cited for violating NYC Administrative Code § 10–126, which
prohibits the takeoff and landing of drones within New York City (NYC)."

Steinmetz wrote in response:
"‘I’m not trying to be an advocate, but my encounter with the NYPD
[on Tuesday] was not about any safety or privacy considerations that
I assume the law was designed for."

1) Perhaps Steinmetz doesn't realize that this response serves no
other purpose than advocacy (free press, open distribution of
information, etc.). Or he's lying.

2) Laws regarding drones are not arbitrary and open to user
definitions. He violated the law, and lost his drone. Boo Hoo.
Ironically, had he been able to fly his paraglider over the scene to
take the shots, he probably would not have been cited at all,
providing that he didn't violate other airspace restrictions.

I am really tired of folks that think they can do whatever they want
with their drones.


Most drone laws are over the top arbitrary.* Canada is much worse than
the US in that respect.* (I'm licensed in Canada and registered in the
US).

The photographer only violated the NYC restriction which is largely
(like 99.99%) unenforced as long as operators comply with the FAA
rules (which are subject to interpretation depending on the sort of
operation you're doing...).


OK, so it's clear which side of the fence you're standing on. ;-D As a
private pilot, I'm standing on the other side of that fence. When I see
drone users violating the laws, I think the punishment is totally
inadequate. As in too far short of a 9mm in their heads.* ;-)


Then you can see on a chart that Hart island is class E airspace from
the surface to 500 ASL. All that remains then is the NYC rule which is
very outdated and applied arbitrarily as in this case.

As a commercially licensed pilot and flight instructor, I can tell you
for a fact that drone laws in most countries are over the top dumb in
most locales. The USA is actually fairly liberal (for private use)
compared to most countries.

To be fair, a lot (but far from all) drone users are over the top dumb
as well - that doesn't merit what you advocate, however.

  #7  
Old April 18th 20, 07:31 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Neil[_9_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 521
Default Photographer cited, had drone confiscated for documenting HartIsland mass burials with his drone

On 4/18/2020 1:39 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2020-04-18 05:43, Neil wrote:
On 4/17/2020 6:45 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2020-04-17 17:04, Neil wrote:
On 4/17/2020 2:51 PM, Alfred Molon wrote:
Here is an article on the matter:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/069755...grapher-cited-
drone-documenting-hart-island-mass-burials-with-his-drone

I bought an inexpensive drone last year, to give a try to drone
photography. Until now I haven't been able to take interesting
shots with it. For a reason or another in most places it's
forbidden to use drones.
"He was cited for violating NYC Administrative Code § 10–126, which
prohibits the takeoff and landing of drones within New York City
(NYC)."

Steinmetz wrote in response:
"‘I’m not trying to be an advocate, but my encounter with the NYPD
[on Tuesday] was not about any safety or privacy considerations that
I assume the law was designed for."

1) Perhaps Steinmetz doesn't realize that this response serves no
other purpose than advocacy (free press, open distribution of
information, etc.). Or he's lying.

2) Laws regarding drones are not arbitrary and open to user
definitions. He violated the law, and lost his drone. Boo Hoo.
Ironically, had he been able to fly his paraglider over the scene to
take the shots, he probably would not have been cited at all,
providing that he didn't violate other airspace restrictions.

I am really tired of folks that think they can do whatever they want
with their drones.

Most drone laws are over the top arbitrary.* Canada is much worse
than the US in that respect.* (I'm licensed in Canada and registered
in the US).

The photographer only violated the NYC restriction which is largely
(like 99.99%) unenforced as long as operators comply with the FAA
rules (which are subject to interpretation depending on the sort of
operation you're doing...).


OK, so it's clear which side of the fence you're standing on. ;-D As a
private pilot, I'm standing on the other side of that fence. When I
see drone users violating the laws, I think the punishment is totally
inadequate. As in too far short of a 9mm in their heads.* ;-)


Then you can see on a chart that Hart island is class E airspace from
the surface to 500 ASL.* All that remains then is the NYC rule which is
very outdated and applied arbitrarily as in this case.

As a commercially licensed pilot and flight instructor, I can tell you
for a fact that drone laws in most countries are over the top dumb in
most locales.* The USA is actually fairly liberal (for private use)
compared to most countries.

To be fair, a lot (but far from all) drone users are over the top dumb
as well - that doesn't merit what you advocate, however.

Many laws and rules in this country are outdated and dumb, but they are
still the law and the rules, not subject to arbitrary interpretation by
individuals.

To be clear, I'm an advocate for safety and people not stupidly putting
others' lives at risk. But, what it takes to achieve that with drones is
more than what is being done at this point. A few serious consequences
for the violators instead of their victims just might speed up the process.

--
best regards,

Neil
  #8  
Old April 18th 20, 07:48 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alan Browne[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 696
Default Photographer cited, had drone confiscated for documenting HartIsland mass burials with his drone

On 2020-04-18 14:31, Neil wrote:
On 4/18/2020 1:39 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2020-04-18 05:43, Neil wrote:
On 4/17/2020 6:45 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2020-04-17 17:04, Neil wrote:
On 4/17/2020 2:51 PM, Alfred Molon wrote:
Here is an article on the matter:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/069755...grapher-cited-
drone-documenting-hart-island-mass-burials-with-his-drone

I bought an inexpensive drone last year, to give a try to drone
photography. Until now I haven't been able to take interesting
shots with it. For a reason or another in most places it's
forbidden to use drones.
"He was cited for violating NYC Administrative Code § 10–126, which
prohibits the takeoff and landing of drones within New York City
(NYC)."

Steinmetz wrote in response:
"‘I’m not trying to be an advocate, but my encounter with the NYPD
[on Tuesday] was not about any safety or privacy considerations
that I assume the law was designed for."

1) Perhaps Steinmetz doesn't realize that this response serves no
other purpose than advocacy (free press, open distribution of
information, etc.). Or he's lying.

2) Laws regarding drones are not arbitrary and open to user
definitions. He violated the law, and lost his drone. Boo Hoo.
Ironically, had he been able to fly his paraglider over the scene
to take the shots, he probably would not have been cited at all,
providing that he didn't violate other airspace restrictions.

I am really tired of folks that think they can do whatever they
want with their drones.

Most drone laws are over the top arbitrary.* Canada is much worse
than the US in that respect.* (I'm licensed in Canada and registered
in the US).

The photographer only violated the NYC restriction which is largely
(like 99.99%) unenforced as long as operators comply with the FAA
rules (which are subject to interpretation depending on the sort of
operation you're doing...).

OK, so it's clear which side of the fence you're standing on. ;-D As
a private pilot, I'm standing on the other side of that fence. When I
see drone users violating the laws, I think the punishment is totally
inadequate. As in too far short of a 9mm in their heads.* ;-)


Then you can see on a chart that Hart island is class E airspace from
the surface to 500 ASL.* All that remains then is the NYC rule which
is very outdated and applied arbitrarily as in this case.

As a commercially licensed pilot and flight instructor, I can tell you
for a fact that drone laws in most countries are over the top dumb in
most locales.* The USA is actually fairly liberal (for private use)
compared to most countries.

To be fair, a lot (but far from all) drone users are over the top dumb
as well - that doesn't merit what you advocate, however.

Many laws and rules in this country are outdated and dumb, but they are
still the law and the rules, not subject to arbitrary interpretation by
individuals.


The city interprets them arbitrarily by not invoking them almost all of
the time and in this case was selective.


To be clear, I'm an advocate for safety and people not stupidly putting
others' lives at risk. But, what it takes to achieve that with drones is
more than what is being done at this point. A few serious consequences
for the violators instead of their victims just might speed up the process.


I don't see how the photographer mentioned put anyone at risk. He may
have offended people the dignity of burial, but that is that.

  #9  
Old April 18th 20, 09:37 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Neil[_9_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 521
Default Photographer cited, had drone confiscated for documenting HartIsland mass burials with his drone

On 4/18/2020 2:48 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2020-04-18 14:31, Neil wrote:
On 4/18/2020 1:39 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2020-04-18 05:43, Neil wrote:
On 4/17/2020 6:45 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2020-04-17 17:04, Neil wrote:
On 4/17/2020 2:51 PM, Alfred Molon wrote:
Here is an article on the matter:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/069755...grapher-cited-
drone-documenting-hart-island-mass-burials-with-his-drone

I bought an inexpensive drone last year, to give a try to drone
photography. Until now I haven't been able to take interesting
shots with it. For a reason or another in most places it's
forbidden to use drones.
"He was cited for violating NYC Administrative Code § 10–126, which
prohibits the takeoff and landing of drones within New York City
(NYC)."

Steinmetz wrote in response:
"‘I’m not trying to be an advocate, but my encounter with the NYPD
[on Tuesday] was not about any safety or privacy considerations
that I assume the law was designed for."

1) Perhaps Steinmetz doesn't realize that this response serves no
other purpose than advocacy (free press, open distribution of
information, etc.). Or he's lying.

2) Laws regarding drones are not arbitrary and open to user
definitions. He violated the law, and lost his drone. Boo Hoo.
Ironically, had he been able to fly his paraglider over the scene
to take the shots, he probably would not have been cited at all,
providing that he didn't violate other airspace restrictions.

I am really tired of folks that think they can do whatever they
want with their drones.

Most drone laws are over the top arbitrary.* Canada is much worse
than the US in that respect.* (I'm licensed in Canada and
registered in the US).

The photographer only violated the NYC restriction which is largely
(like 99.99%) unenforced as long as operators comply with the FAA
rules (which are subject to interpretation depending on the sort of
operation you're doing...).

OK, so it's clear which side of the fence you're standing on. ;-D As
a private pilot, I'm standing on the other side of that fence. When
I see drone users violating the laws, I think the punishment is
totally inadequate. As in too far short of a 9mm in their heads.* ;-)

Then you can see on a chart that Hart island is class E airspace from
the surface to 500 ASL.* All that remains then is the NYC rule which
is very outdated and applied arbitrarily as in this case.

As a commercially licensed pilot and flight instructor, I can tell
you for a fact that drone laws in most countries are over the top
dumb in most locales.* The USA is actually fairly liberal (for
private use) compared to most countries.

To be fair, a lot (but far from all) drone users are over the top
dumb as well - that doesn't merit what you advocate, however.

Many laws and rules in this country are outdated and dumb, but they
are still the law and the rules, not subject to arbitrary
interpretation by individuals.


The city interprets them arbitrarily by not invoking them almost all of
the time and in this case was selective.


To be clear, I'm an advocate for safety and people not stupidly
putting others' lives at risk. But, what it takes to achieve that with
drones is more than what is being done at this point. A few serious
consequences for the violators instead of their victims just might
speed up the process.


I don't see how the photographer mentioned put anyone at risk.* He may
have offended people the dignity of burial, but that is that.

It has nothing at all to do with whether Steinmetz put anyone at risk.
Again, in your view a photographer is within their rights to violate
rules based on their opinion about them. In mine, they have no such
rights; it's as simple as that.

And, as I pointed out in my first reply, had he used his paraglider
instead of his drone, there probably would not have been any
consequences (if your charts are current...mine are not).

--
best regards,

Neil
  #10  
Old April 18th 20, 10:02 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
newshound
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 458
Default Photographer cited, had drone confiscated for documenting HartIsland mass burials with his drone

On 17/04/2020 23:42, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2020-04-17 14:51, Alfred Molon wrote:
Here is an article on the matter:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/069755...grapher-cited-
drone-documenting-hart-island-mass-burials-with-his-drone


Hart Island is a park belonging to NYC and is within the boundaries of NYC.

New York City—Administrative Code § 10-126(c) // 2017

This administrative code makes it unlawful for any person avigating an
aircraft (including drones) to take off or land, except in an emergency,
at any place within the limits of the city other than places of landing
designated by the department of transportation or the port of New York
authority.* To avigate is defined in the code as “To pilot, steer,
direct, fly, or manage an aircraft in or through the air, whether
controlled from the ground or otherwise.”

New York City—City Restriction // 2017

This city restriction declares that drones are illegal to fly in New
York City, and advises anyone who sees a drone being flown to call 911.


As it happens I'll be flying both my drones tomorrow... legally.


And to be fair, New York has more reason than most places to be nervous
about unidentifiable overflights.
 




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