Trouble Reproducing the Color Purple

Newbie here. I've got a Canon A520 but the problem I'm describing is
not unique to this camera or even digital photography.

One thing I have noticed for years and years is the difficulty of
photographs, TV broadcasts, videotapes, etc. reproducing the color
purple. I've noticed this because I'm in Minnesota and am a Viking fan.
It seems that just about every electronic device has trouble properly
rendering the Viking color purple. It comes out as a dark blue.

When I watch TV broadcasts of the Vikings their uniforms look dark
blue. I thought this was an effect from playing inside the MetroDome
with its fluorescent lights but even away games with overcast skies the
uniforms show up as dark blue. On away games with bright sunlight the
uniforms take on a somewhat purple color, close but not a match.

I've had various brands of TV's and VCR's over the years and so far
only Sony seems to be able to render the color purple accurately. A
friend of mine has a brand new 52" JVC HDTV--Viking purple shows as
dark blue. One of my sons has a Viking sweatshirt. I took a picture of
him with my new A520. The LCD image shows it to be dark blue.

Anybody want to see this for yourself? If you are in Minnesota or
Illinois, tune into the Vikings game on FOX TV at 3:15 on New Year's
Day.

Or look at this photo from inside the MetroDome:

http://www.startribune.com/stonline/...vike0827.l.jpg

Then look at this photo from an outdoor game:

http://sportserver.nandomedia.com/ip...t/639-moss.jpg


Can someone explain why the color purple cannot be rendered accurately?

wrote in message
oups.com...
Newbie here. I've got a Canon A520 but the problem I'm describing is
not unique to this camera or even digital photography.

One thing I have noticed for years and years is the difficulty of
photographs, TV broadcasts, videotapes, etc. reproducing the color
purple. I've noticed this because I'm in Minnesota and am a Viking fan.
It seems that just about every electronic device has trouble properly
rendering the Viking color purple. It comes out as a dark blue.

When I watch TV broadcasts of the Vikings their uniforms look dark
blue. I thought this was an effect from playing inside the MetroDome
with its fluorescent lights but even away games with overcast skies the
uniforms show up as dark blue. On away games with bright sunlight the
uniforms take on a somewhat purple color, close but not a match.


CRTs should be able to reproduce purple
without too much trouble -- but it is a known
problem that deep, saturated purple is outside
the gamut of most CMYK printing methods.

Furthermore it's not a "color management"
issue -- it's simply a gamut limitation of CMYK
inks.

(Ref: "Professional Photoshop" by Dan Margulis.)

rafe b
www.terrapinphoto.com

wrote:
Newbie here. I've got a Canon A520 but the problem I'm describing is
not unique to this camera or even digital photography.

One thing I have noticed for years and years is the difficulty of
photographs, TV broadcasts, videotapes, etc. reproducing the color
purple. I've noticed this because I'm in Minnesota and am a Viking fan.
It seems that just about every electronic device has trouble properly
rendering the Viking color purple. It comes out as a dark blue.

When I watch TV broadcasts of the Vikings their uniforms look dark
blue. I thought this was an effect from playing inside the MetroDome
with its fluorescent lights but even away games with overcast skies the
uniforms show up as dark blue. On away games with bright sunlight the
uniforms take on a somewhat purple color, close but not a match.

I've had various brands of TV's and VCR's over the years and so far
only Sony seems to be able to render the color purple accurately. A
friend of mine has a brand new 52" JVC HDTV--Viking purple shows as
dark blue. One of my sons has a Viking sweatshirt. I took a picture of
him with my new A520. The LCD image shows it to be dark blue.

Anybody want to see this for yourself? If you are in Minnesota or
Illinois, tune into the Vikings game on FOX TV at 3:15 on New Year's
Day.

Or look at this photo from inside the MetroDome:

http://www.startribune.com/stonline/...vike0827.l.jpg

Then look at this photo from an outdoor game:

http://sportserver.nandomedia.com/ip...t/639-moss.jpg


Can someone explain why the color purple cannot be rendered accurately?

Why don't you just root for a good football team and solve 2 problems
at once? No more blue-appearing purple uniforms, and they might win a
few games if you pick right. I'd suggest the Broncos!

rafe b wrote:


CRTs should be able to reproduce purple
without too much trouble -- but it is a known
problem that deep, saturated purple is outside
the gamut of most CMYK printing methods.

Furthermore it's not a "color management"
issue -- it's simply a gamut limitation of CMYK
inks.

(Ref: "Professional Photoshop" by Dan Margulis.)


That does not explain why 95% of the TV's I've ever seen can't
reproduce it, nor why my new camera can't reproduce it.

salgud wrote:

wrote:
...
Can someone explain why the color purple cannot be rendered accurately?
...


Why don't you just root for a good football team and solve 2 problems
at once? No more blue-appearing purple uniforms, and they might win a
few games if you pick right. I'd suggest the Broncos!

LOL. I've got a friend that moved to Denver a couple of years ago. He's
been fully converted to the Broncos. They are a pretty good team this
year, but in a tough conference. I don't see how the NFC will win the
Super Bowl, no matter what team represents the AFC.

wrote in message
ps.com...

rafe b wrote:


CRTs should be able to reproduce purple
without too much trouble -- but it is a known
problem that deep, saturated purple is outside
the gamut of most CMYK printing methods.

Furthermore it's not a "color management"
issue -- it's simply a gamut limitation of CMYK
inks.

(Ref: "Professional Photoshop" by Dan Margulis.)


That does not explain why 95% of the TV's I've ever seen can't
reproduce it, nor why my new camera can't reproduce it.


No, it doesn't. So sorry. I just told
you all I know about The Color Purple.


rafe b
www.terrapinphoto.com

wrote:
salgud wrote:

wrote:
..
Can someone explain why the color purple cannot be rendered accurately?
..


Why don't you just root for a good football team and solve 2 problems
at once? No more blue-appearing purple uniforms, and they might win a
few games if you pick right. I'd suggest the Broncos!

LOL. I've got a friend that moved to Denver a couple of years ago. He's
been fully converted to the Broncos.

Hard to live here and not be a Broncos fan. Pretty serious fans here.
And we have bounties on anyone in a Raiders or Chiefs shirt!

They are a pretty good team this
year, but in a tough conference. I don't see how the NFC will win the
Super Bowl, no matter what team represents the AFC.

Amazing how they've switched. From '69 to '96, AFC didn't win one. Now,
the NFC teams aren't contenders. But I prefer it this way, since my
team is AFC!

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 14:12:06 -0800, powrwrap wrote:


rafe b wrote:


CRTs should be able to reproduce purple
without too much trouble -- but it is a known
problem that deep, saturated purple is outside
the gamut of most CMYK printing methods.

Furthermore it's not a "color management"
issue -- it's simply a gamut limitation of CMYK
inks.

(Ref: "Professional Photoshop" by Dan Margulis.)


That does not explain why 95% of the TV's I've ever seen can't
reproduce it, nor why my new camera can't reproduce it.

Have you found that deep reds don't reproduce properly either? Try
photographing a dark red rose. It is well known in the astronomical
community that the infra-red low-pass filter in the CCD / CMOS cameras
block some of the deep red colours. This may well cause the reproducion
effect you are reporting in the purple. I have seen the same issue with a
Canon G3 and a 20D. The 20D can be fixed, with some risk and added
inconvenience.

Regards Ian

Ian Anderson wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 14:12:06 -0800, powrwrap wrote:


rafe b wrote:


CRTs should be able to reproduce purple
without too much trouble -- but it is a known
problem that deep, saturated purple is outside
the gamut of most CMYK printing methods.

Furthermore it's not a "color management"
issue -- it's simply a gamut limitation of CMYK
inks.

(Ref: "Professional Photoshop" by Dan Margulis.)


That does not explain why 95% of the TV's I've ever seen can't
reproduce it, nor why my new camera can't reproduce it.

Have you found that deep reds don't reproduce properly either? Try
photographing a dark red rose. It is well known in the astronomical
community that the infra-red low-pass filter in the CCD / CMOS
cameras
block some of the deep red colours. This may well cause the
reproducion effect you are reporting in the purple. I have seen the
same issue with a Canon G3 and a 20D. The 20D can be fixed, with
some risk and added inconvenience.

Regards Ian

Rose is true-to-life (350D / RebXT) :
http://static.flickr.com/24/46011553_64684a34d7_o.jpg

The flowers are deep purple (20D) :
http://static.flickr.com/29/37653293_866eb45f4d_o.jpg

Mystery: why do the Lavender flowers seem pink, and the very-near same
Lavender-colored collar stay that color? (20D) :
http://static.flickr.com/33/48307636_67845bae3d_o.jpg

This mint blossom is true-to-life Lavender (20D) :
http://static.flickr.com/31/48478352_5ac11cba1a_o.jpg

--
Frank ess

Hello Frank.
I won't dispute your images but it doesn't detract from the argument
that the combination of pigments in some flowers make the colours we
perceive difficult to reproduce properly. This is not the sole domain of
canon either, an acquaintance has complained of the same short-comings
in a nikon DSLR when applied to both astronomical work with the hydrogen
D line (deep red) and some flowers. Hence the 20Da which partially
improves the deep red sensitivity.

Regards
Ian