Snapshots of Afghanistan - August 2009

"tony cooper" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:22:29 -0700, "Bill Graham"
wrote:


"Chris H" wrote in message
...

The Bush administration made all the mistakes predicted... that is why
it lost in Iraq and can not win in Afghanistan. Though it took 6 years
for the US military to admit this publicly


You know, you can repeat, "Bush lost in Iraq" over and over for the rest
of
time, but that doesn't make it so. Certainly to me, nothing was lost.

You count 4,345 American soldiers as "nothing"?


Do you call 2 million Iraqi lives nothing?

In message , Bill Graham
writes

"Chris H" wrote in message news:$HE5XgFxm0tKFANI@p
haedsys.demon.co.uk...

The Bush administration made all the mistakes predicted... that is why
it lost in Iraq and can not win in Afghanistan. Though it took 6 years
for the US military to admit this publicly


You know, you can repeat, "Bush lost in Iraq" over and over for the
rest of time, but that doesn't make it so. Certainly to me, nothing was
lost.

A LOT was lost, particularly by the USA

Ridding the world of Saddam and his two sons was gained.

1. The US put him there in the first place.
2 Invading for regime change is illegal.

The destruction of any WMD's owned by Iraq was gained.

No. They had gone a long time before.

Bringing Democracy to another Middle Eastern country was gained.

No. Forcing an alien system on them was gained. One they did not want.
Within 3 years it will be bak to what Iraq wants

Gaining an ally in what looks like a future conflict with Iran was
gained.

WRONG the US LOST an ally. Saddam was the US's man and had been fighting
the Iranians. Now Iraq is pro-iranian

Exactly how was the war in Iraq, "lost"?

Because you lost every major goal and Al-qeada have gained most of
theirs.

The was has also helped to cripple the US economically and lost it most
of its friends diplomatically.

--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

In message , mikey4
writes

"Chris H" wrote in message
...
In message , Bill Graham
writes

"Chris H" wrote in message news:Fnq3$3GKpktKFApK@p
haedsys.demon.co.uk...
In message , Bill Graham
writes

"mikey4" wrote in message
ernal-september.org...

"Chris H" wrote in message news:uDb9mLAQthqKFAH
...
In message , Bill
Graham
writes

To me, It's much simpler than that. I have no idea why some
terrorists
plowed a couple of airliners into those two buildings on 9/11, and I
don't really care why they did it.

Then you can never hope to beat them.
It also shows you are an idiot. In asynchronous warfare, especially
where the enemy is an ideal not a country or geographical location,
in
order to beat an enemy you have to understand their motives and aims.

They were killing civilians, and not perpherillery, but on purpose.
So,
the lines were drawn in the sand.

I agree... the lines were drawn by the US.... The 9/11 was a
RETALIATION
not a first strike. Also it was the 3rd (or 4th) in a series.

Now, I am perfectly happy to spend the rest of my life seeking them
out
and killing them. - How much simpler can it get than this?

That is the problem... simple solution for simple minds.... Your
solution is WRONG and means you can NEVER win this fight.

What would you suggest to win this fight?
Don't bother to ask.....they have no exit strategy......

Who is the "they" that doesn't ?

I speak of the liberals, or socialists, who screamed, "Bush has no exit
strategy". Like you can see into the future, and know in advance when
and how you will see and end to a war and be able to predict, and
publish, your pull-out date. This is ridiculous, but it was the cry of
the liberal democrats for years.....


I am a life long Tory (republican to you) NOT a liberal and certainly
not a socialist!

I have Military experience. Including ME and counter terrorist.

As for seeing into the future things have happened as predicted over the
last 8 years. I think I have a track record of being 80-90% correct. But
then it is not rocket science.

The Bush administration made all the mistakes predicted... that is why
it lost in Iraq and can not win in Afghanistan. Though it took 6 years
for the US military to admit this publicly


So once again I will ask, what would you, Chris, suggest?

I suggested some 8 years ago, continuously since roughly what the US
commander suggested this week. I fact I think I put it in this thread
last week....

More troops on FOOT patrol doing hearts and minds.
Not shooting at civilian as soon as they hear a bullet.
Not using drones and 500lb bombs

This will increase the body count short term but will deliver a US win
long term. However I doubt the US military has the skills to do it.

--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

"Chris H" wrote in message

In message 4ab76a20$0$12679$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-
01.iinet.net.au, DRS writes
"Chris H" wrote in message

In message , Bill
Graham writes

[...]

I speak of the liberals, or socialists, who screamed, "Bush has no
exit strategy". Like you can see into the future, and know in
advance when and how you will see and end to a war and be able to
predict, and publish, your pull-out date. This is ridiculous, but
it was the cry of the liberal democrats for years.....

I am a life long Tory (republican to you) NOT a liberal and
certainly not a socialist!

In Britain we have two major political parties: Labour, who
Americans would call socialists, and the Tories, who Americans would
call socialists...

And the Lib-Dems who are borderline communists :-)

Hey, it's an old joke.

In message 4ab8db54$0$12722$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-
01.iinet.net.au, DRS writes
"Chris H" wrote in message

In message 4ab76a20$0$12679$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-
01.iinet.net.au, DRS writes
"Chris H" wrote in message

In message , Bill
Graham writes

[...]

I speak of the liberals, or socialists, who screamed, "Bush has no
exit strategy". Like you can see into the future, and know in
advance when and how you will see and end to a war and be able to
predict, and publish, your pull-out date. This is ridiculous, but
it was the cry of the liberal democrats for years.....

I am a life long Tory (republican to you) NOT a liberal and
certainly not a socialist!

In Britain we have two major political parties: Labour, who
Americans would call socialists, and the Tories, who Americans would
call socialists...

And the Lib-Dems who are borderline communists :-)

Hey, it's an old joke.

BE kind it's their conference this week and they are trying hard to be
different AND electable :-)

--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

Bill Graham wrote:

"Chris H" wrote in message
...

The Bush administration made all the mistakes predicted... that is why
it lost in Iraq and can not win in Afghanistan. Though it took 6 years
for the US military to admit this publicly


You know, you can repeat, "Bush lost in Iraq" over and over for the rest of
time, but that doesn't make it so. Certainly to me, nothing was lost.

After all, what's a few hundred billions dollars and many thousands of
lives lost?

Ridding the world of Saddam and his two sons was gained. The destruction of
any WMD's owned by Iraq was gained.

There weren't and WMDs.

--
Ray Fischer

Bill Graham wrote:

"tony cooper" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:22:29 -0700, "Bill Graham"
wrote:


"Chris H" wrote in message
...

The Bush administration made all the mistakes predicted... that is why
it lost in Iraq and can not win in Afghanistan. Though it took 6 years
for the US military to admit this publicly


You know, you can repeat, "Bush lost in Iraq" over and over for the rest
of
time, but that doesn't make it so. Certainly to me, nothing was lost.

You count 4,345 American soldiers as "nothing"?

Do you call 2 million Iraqi lives nothing?

The ones killed by the US?

--
Ray Fischer

"Ray Fischer" wrote:
Bill Graham wrote:
You know, you can repeat, "Bush lost in Iraq" over and over for the rest
of
time, but that doesn't make it so. Certainly to me, nothing was lost.

You count 4,345 American soldiers as "nothing"?

Do you call 2 million Iraqi lives nothing?

The ones killed by the US?

He's talking by the ones killed by Hussein using US-supplied chemical
weapons.

He forgets that the US fought side by side with Hussein in his war with
Iran, and that US servicemen died in that war fighting to support Hussein.
And that it was his God, Ronnie Raygun, who supplied those chemical weapons
and ordered that support and thus those deaths.

--
David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan

"Chris H" wrote in message
...
In message , Bill Graham
writes

"Chris H" wrote in message news:$HE5XgFxm0tKFANI@p
haedsys.demon.co.uk...

The Bush administration made all the mistakes predicted... that is why
it lost in Iraq and can not win in Afghanistan. Though it took 6 years
for the US military to admit this publicly


You know, you can repeat, "Bush lost in Iraq" over and over for the
rest of time, but that doesn't make it so. Certainly to me, nothing was
lost.

A LOT was lost, particularly by the USA

Ridding the world of Saddam and his two sons was gained.

1. The US put him there in the first place.

And what exactly does this have to do with gaining by killing him?

2 Invading for regime change is illegal.

"Invading " is illegal. Every invasion in the history of mankind has been,
"for regime change". We invaded Germany "for regime change". What is illegal
to one is salvation for another.....So what?

"David J. Littleboy" wrote in message
...

"Ray Fischer" wrote:
Bill Graham wrote:
You know, you can repeat, "Bush lost in Iraq" over and over for the
rest
of
time, but that doesn't make it so. Certainly to me, nothing was lost.

You count 4,345 American soldiers as "nothing"?

Do you call 2 million Iraqi lives nothing?

The ones killed by the US?

He's talking by the ones killed by Hussein using US-supplied chemical
weapons.

He forgets that the US fought side by side with Hussein in his war with
Iran, and that US servicemen died in that war fighting to support Hussein.
And that it was his God, Ronnie Raygun, who supplied those chemical
weapons and ordered that support and thus those deaths.

I was talking about the 2 million Iraqi citizens that Saddam killed over the
thirty odd years he was president of Iraq. He brought their average lifespan
down to 58 years in a region where the average was 71 years, and the
population of Iraq is around 23 million. - Why don't you geniuses do the
math?