The end of the DSLR

Alan Browne wrote:
Alfred Molon wrote:
http://www.dcresource.com/news/newsitem.php?id=3767


The main issue in my opinion is the AF system, i.e. how to get a fast AF

With nearly 4x less sensing area than a FF DSLR the 4/3 system is a dead
end system for most photogs due to noise limiting the pixel sizes and
hence number of pixels.

Ah, that explains why nobody buys non-DSLRs. I was wondering why
they'd vanished from the streets.

--
Chris Malcolm DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Alfred Molon wrote:

http://www.dcresource.com/news/newsitem.php?id=3767

Olympus and Panasonic have announced a new camera standard with no
mirror, EVF and interchangeable lenses. The days of the DSLR are counted
- it's just a matter of time before (most) other manufacturers will
follow and introduce EVIL cameras (EVF + interchangeable lenses). Most
likely the swinging mirror will survive only in a small niche of
cameras.

The main issue in my opinion is the AF system, i.e. how to get a fast AF
system without the mirror (the phase AF seems to need a mirror). As for
resolution and refresh speed of the EVF I would expect the EVFs to
quickly improve, although already now they are good enough for most
purposes (ever tried to manually focus through an optical viewfinder?).

The intended market for this device seems to be between point and
shoot, and SLR (D or F). I have a hard time believing that a serious
photographer will want one of these devices, but then again I said
that about an MP3 player (MP3 files are heavily compressed to reduce
file size, but the compression takes a toll on sound quality).

I'm looking for a decent point & shoot that has a view finder (no
thanks to an LCD as the ONLY way to compose), and they are hard to
find. There is no way I would go with an LCD view finder in a "real"
camera. In fact, I still like my Nikon FM - no batteries needed! One
would be surprised at how hand that feature is.

Dave,

"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...
Alfred Molon wrote:
http://www.dcresource.com/news/newsitem.php?id=3767


The main issue in my opinion is the AF system, i.e. how to get a fast AF

With nearly 4x less sensing area than a FF DSLR the 4/3 system is a dead
end system for most photogs due to noise limiting the pixel sizes and
hence number of pixels.

But it's not meant to replace a FF system! You wouldn't want a G9-sized
camera with small and light interchangeable lenses that uses a 4/3 sensor?
Sounds like a traveller's dream to me.


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
-- usenet posts from gmail.com and googlemail.com are filtered out.

"Jufi" wrote:

With nearly 4x less sensing area than a FF DSLR the 4/3 system is a dead
end system for most photogs due to noise limiting the pixel sizes and
hence number of pixels.

But it's not meant to replace a FF system! You wouldn't want a G9-sized
camera with small and light interchangeable lenses that uses a 4/3 sensor?
Sounds like a traveller's dream to me.

You don't need 4/3 to make a compact camera. Full frame cameras such as the
Rollei 35, Contax T, and Leica CL have been around for years. I'd love a
digital Leica CL that would take the new Zeiss Ikon M mount lenses. But only
if it's FF.

--
David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan

Dave Boland wrote:

The intended market for this device seems to be between point and shoot,
and SLR (D or F). I have a hard time believing that a serious
photographer will want one of these devices, but then again I said that
about an MP3 player (MP3 files are heavily compressed to reduce file
size, but the compression takes a toll on sound quality).

People buy small sensor P&S cameras with a heavy toll on photo quality,
too. However the 4/3 "standard" for D-SLRs never caught on. In the days
of film, 110 and APS SLRs never caught on either. Those spending the
money on SLRs don't seem to be interested in trading lower quality for
smaller size.

OTOH, there seems to be an "in-between" market for the 1.5 and 1.6 crop
factor digital SLRs, so there is some willingness to trade quality for
price.

I was just in Yellowstone (what a zoo in the summer) and was pleased to
see that D-SLRs seem to have really penetrated into the mass market. I
was amused to see several people with two D-SLRs around their neck, one
with a wide-angle zoom lens, one with a telephoto zoom lens, but I found
myself changing lenses quite often since for wildlife shots you needed
the telephoto, and for landscape shots the wide-angle.

I'm looking for a decent point & shoot that has a view finder (no thanks
to an LCD as the ONLY way to compose), and they are hard to find. There
is no way I would go with an LCD view finder in a "real" camera. In
fact, I still like my Nikon FM - no batteries needed! One would be
surprised at how hand that feature is.

I was looking for a small point and shoot with three features:

1. Optical viewfinder
2. 28mm at the wide end
3. 8 Megapixels (for lower noise)

The now-discontinued Canon SD800 IS was the only one I could find. They
are still available, barely. I found only one real store that has them,
though the price has been going up.

"http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5238355&sourceid=15000000000 00003142050&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=5238355"

David J. Littleboy wrote:
[]
You don't need 4/3 to make a compact camera. Full frame cameras such
as the Rollei 35, Contax T, and Leica CL have been around for years.
I'd love a digital Leica CL that would take the new Zeiss Ikon M
mount lenses. But only if it's FF.

Is there any technical problem preventing a camera being made (such as as
vignetting) or is it just cost and profit considerations which matter?

David

"Alfred Molon" wrote in message
...
http://www.dcresource.com/news/newsitem.php?id=3767

Bythom reports the Nikon D90 does video! That's the second horseman of the
Apocalypse ...

"David J Taylor"
wrote:
David J. Littleboy wrote:
[]
You don't need 4/3 to make a compact camera. Full frame cameras such
as the Rollei 35, Contax T, and Leica CL have been around for years.
I'd love a digital Leica CL that would take the new Zeiss Ikon M
mount lenses. But only if it's FF.

Is there any technical problem preventing a camera being made (such as as
vignetting) or is it just cost and profit considerations which matter?

I'd doubt that either Canon or Nikon would have any interest either in
selling a camera with a mount for which they don't make any lenses, or in
selling sensors to someone who would make such a camera.

Also, is there a market for a fixed-focal length camera in this age of 12x
and 15x zooms? Maybe if Sigma succeeds with their Foveon-based thing we'll
see something from Canon or Nikon. But I doubt it.

All bets change, of course, if Sony produces a decent FF sensor and sells it
cheaply.

For the nonce, while the 5D with either the 35/2.0 or 50/1.4 won't fit in a
pocket, it does go in my briefcase/shoulder bag and does get taken along
occasionally, although most of the things I do that get me out of the house
(other than photography itself) preclude photography.

For real people, a 1000D with a 24/2.8 is a smaller, lighter, and cheaper
than a 5D + 35/2.0. (But Nikon low-end SLRs don't AF with primes.)

--
David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan

No Spam wrote:
"Alfred Molon" wrote in message
...
http://www.dcresource.com/news/newsitem.php?id=3767

Bythom reports the Nikon D90 does video! That's the second horseman of the
Apocalypse ...

I think video on a D-SLR is a great idea. There are times when I'd love
to be able to do a short video clip without carrying a video camera or a
point and shoot camera.

David J. Littleboy wrote:
You don't need 4/3 to make a compact camera. Full frame cameras such as the
Rollei 35, Contax T, and Leica CL have been around for years.

Olympus XA... the poor man's Contax T

BugBear (poor man)