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3rd RFD: rec.photo.digital.slr
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.slr This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of a worldwide unmoderated Usenet newsgroup rec.photo.digital.slr. This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time. Procedural details are below. All followup discussion should be posted to news.groups. Newsgroup line: rec.photo.digital.slr Digital SLR (single lens reflex) camera systems. CHANGES from the previous RFD have been made to the syntax and wording of previously unclear elements in this proposal. RATIONALE: rec.photo.digital.slr The proposed newsgroup should be created because it will provide an open forum for the discussion of digital SLR (single lens reflex) camera systems, separate from film cameras and non-SLR digital cameras. Digital SLR photography is growing at an amazing rate. It is generally more technically oriented than compact digital photography. It is time to create a Big-8 newsgroup for digital SLR enthusiasts. Rec.photo.digital was created before the digital photography revolution peaked. At that time, digital SLR camera systems were not easily obtainable by the average person, due to high cost and limited availability. Due to advances in the past year alone by some of the major camera manufacturers, a person can find digital SLR camera equipment for sale at almost every shopping mall, strip mall, or electronics store on earth, at very reasonable prices. RPD was created to discuss all general aspects of digital photography - including cameras, scanners, printers, software, and other related topics. If passed, rec.photo.digital.slr will limit its scope of inclusion to DSLR (digital SLR) systems and DSLR photography. The majority of digital camera owners use compact or "point and shoot" digital cameras, and RPD is an excellent newsgroup for discussion of these cameras. Many of the current crop of DSLR camera systems share lenses and accessories with their 35mm film counterparts made by the same manufacturers. This has generated a substantial volume of crossposted threads between rec.photo.equipment.35mm and RPD. Digital cameras are off-topic in RPE35mm, and film cameras are off-topic in RPD. These crossposted threads are off-topic in both newsgroups, and they eat up a considerable amount of bandwidth. With the creation of rec.photo.digital.slr, these crossposted threads would be substantially reduced. The 35mm crowd can get back to pure 35mm equipment/photography discussion, and RPD can be free of film talk. CHARTER: rec.photo.digital.slr This newsgroup, rec.photo.digital.slr, is an open forum for the discussion of digital SLR (single lens reflex) camera systems. These systems consist of: -Digital SLR (DSLR) camera bodies with mounts for detachable lenses -Lenses for those cameras -Any relevant accessories for those camera systems, including but not limited to: external flash units, memory cards, microdrives, lens filters/hoods, camera bags/cases, DSLR camera/lens/accessory maintenance, tripods and monopods. All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents). Additional On-Topic Discussion: -Photography techniques, as long as the discussion remains within the context of DSLR photography -Image post-processing, as long as the discussion remains within the context of DSLR photography -Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, as long as the discussion remains within the context of DSLR photography -Discussion of hybrid film-digital cameras and digital backs Digital rangefinder camera systems are technically not SLR systems, but they are on-topic if they offer lens interchangeability. Inclusion of digital rangefinders with mounts for detachable lenses is provisional; should a separate Big-8 newsgroup for digital rangefinders ever come into existence, these camera systems will become off-topic in rec.photo.digital.slr upon passage of the new group. What Is Considered Off-Topic: -Discussion of pure film cameras -Discussion of "point and shoot" or any other non-SLR digital cameras (digital rangefinders with mounts for detachable lenses are the only provisional exception) -Discussion of any cameras with non-detachable lenses -Discussion of scanners -Discussion of printers -Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, not in the context of DSLR photography Posting off-topic should be kept to a minimum. All off-topic posts should be prefixed with [OT] or another easily-identifiable prefix in the subject line. If a segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes clearly off-topic, it is the duty of those individuals posting to change the subject line to reflect the off-topic change. Debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film photography is off-topic. Please be polite and try to not steer any conversations in that direction. In the event that any segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes clearly off-topic by debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film photography, it is the duty of those individuals posting to change the subject line to reflect the off-topic change. What Is Considered Inappropriate: - Crossposting to any other newsgroup except where the post is of direct relevance to each group in the crosspost What Is Not Permitted: -Posts from mail2news gateways and/or anonymous remailers -Flame wars (comparisons between different digital SLR brands or systems are permitted as long as they do not degenerate into personal flames) -Signatures with more than 4 lines -Exchange and/or discussion of illegal software -Personal attacks -Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) other than PGP and small binary signatures -Commercial advertisements: This newsgroup explicitly prohibits the posting of advertisements of any kind, whether personal, private or commercial, as well as all other promotional material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography. Auction announcements (Ebay.com and others) are prohibited. Posting links to commercial websites with the sole intention of promoting those sites is not permitted; links to commercial websites may be posted in the context of answering a specific question. When posting on rec.photo.digital.slr, please use standard Usenet netiquette. Treat other posters with courtesy and follow standard conventions when replying to posts. Please trim the posts you reply to, retaining only the significant portions in your follow up. Preserve attributions (the bits that specify who wrote what in each post) and limit your signature to 4 lines or less. To ensure readability, do not use HTML in your posts and limit your line lengths to the Usenet standard of 80 characters. END CHARTER. PROCEDU This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroup should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call For Votes (CFV) may be posted by a neutral vote taker if the discussion warrants it. Please do not attempt to vote until this happens. All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups. This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any questions about the process. DISTRIBUTION: This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups: news.groups news.announce.newgroups rec.photo.equipment.35mm rec.photo.digital Proponent: Thaddeus Lip****z Proponent: Alan Browne |
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"Guy Macon" wrote in message
... Paul H. wrote: I'd say forget it: after all the problems on rec.photo.digital with spammers, trolls, and psychos, the last thing the rec.photo hierarchy needs is another UNMODERATED group. Part of me is with you Paul. As much as I support the newsgroup creation procedure, I have *lots* and *lots* of frustration for the lack of willingness of Russ Allmighty to let the communities self-govern their own charters through a simple amendment process. The 'ME ME ME' attitude is the problem with today's Usenet. If ISPs and NSPs would enforce charters, the will of the community would prevail ..... instead of the will of a handful of luzers!!! ( Oh my Guy, the thousands of texts I've written says it no better than this one paragraph . Empowering the people and the communities with their own governments could completely change the reflection of Usenet. Apparently this is not what the power elite desire, as they foist their obstructing hand at every opportunity. Eventually, Usenet will lose all intellegence to the competing technologies. Creating more newsgroups, while, at a faster pace, littering the landscape with burned out hulks of smoldering useless effort. This is no solution at all. Empower the people with their own chosen governments x -- One thing you can guarantee, though: if you don't try, you'll never have to find out it might have succeeded, and you can be very smug about your species' extinction as it is happening: "I _told_ them there was no way to bring peace to this planet!" - xanthian |
#3
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Kibo informs me that "Steve Young" bowtieATbrightdslDOTnet stated
that: "Guy Macon" wrote in message [Forgery-snip] 'ME ME ME' attitude is the problem with today's Usenet. If ISPs and NSPs would enforce charters, the will of the community would prevail ..... instead of the will of a handful of luzers!!! ( Oh my Guy, the thousands of texts I've w[Screed-snip] You know they say that talking to yourself is the first sign of madness, Steve. -- W . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est ---^----^--------------------------------------------------------------- |
#4
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"Lionel" wrote
"Steve Young" bowtieATbrightdslDOTnet stated "Guy Macon" wrote in message [Forgery-snip] 'ME ME ME' attitude is the problem with today's Usenet. If ISPs and NSPs would enforce charters, the will of the community would prevail ..... instead of the will of a handful of luzers!!! ( Oh my Guy, the thousands of texts I've w[Screed-snip] You know they say that talking to yourself is the first sign of madness, Steve. won't deny that prove that's what I'm doing, or admit your incompetence |
#5
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"Lionel" wrote
"Steve Young" bowtieATbrightdslDOTnet stated "Guy Macon" wrote in message [Forgery-snip] 'ME ME ME' attitude is the problem with today's Usenet. If ISPs and NSPs would enforce charters, the will of the community would prevail ..... instead of the will of a handful of luzers!!! ( Oh my Guy, the thousands of texts I've w[Screed-snip] You know they say that talking to yourself is the first sign of madness, Steve. won't deny that prove that's what I'm doing, or admit your incompetence |
#6
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Kibo informs me that "Steve Young" bowtieATbrightdslDOTnet stated
that: "Guy Macon" wrote in message [Forgery-snip] 'ME ME ME' attitude is the problem with today's Usenet. If ISPs and NSPs would enforce charters, the will of the community would prevail ..... instead of the will of a handful of luzers!!! ( Oh my Guy, the thousands of texts I've w[Screed-snip] You know they say that talking to yourself is the first sign of madness, Steve. -- W . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est ---^----^--------------------------------------------------------------- |
#7
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Thad wrote: This newsgroup explicitly prohibits the posting of advertisements of any kind, whether personal, private or commercial, as well as all other promotional material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography. Auction announcements (Ebay.com and others) are prohibited. Posting links to commercial websites with the sole intention of promoting those sites is not permitted; links to commercial websites may be posted in the context of answering a specific question. So, Tony "the Spaz" Spadaro and his monumental, ego-driven sig would be persona non grata at r.p.d.s? Cool. Sounds like private hobbyist FA posts would also be verboten, which I think is a huge mistake as it destroys a sense of community. But at least you addressed the issue in a clear, well-written manner. As opposed to saying that your "not as unambiguous" charter prohibits private FA posts because, "you say so and you were there." Of course, neither eBay nor most ISP's care, so what are you going to do about it anyway? But when you come down to it, this whole slr/pns distinction is pretty much elitist crap to begin with, so I don't really see this group taking off even if it does get created. You can't tell me that there are enough significant differences between say an Oly 8008 and a dRebel that you can fuel a whole new group. And since you can't retroactively make discussion of dslr's OT in r.p.d most of the traffic is still going to go there. I predict r.p.d.s will just add to an already "overstructured" hierarchy and will die a slow death from disuse. BUT - maybe if you get the Canon/Nikon/Sigma flame wars and the snuh-sockpuppets to follow you over there then you can have a grand ol' time while helping to clean up r.p.d. Now *there's* a worthy goal of a group. Better put that in the charter. Thanks, Dave |
#8
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"Guy Macon" wrote in message
... Paul H. wrote: I'd say forget it: after all the problems on rec.photo.digital with spammers, trolls, and psychos, the last thing the rec.photo hierarchy needs is another UNMODERATED group. Part of me is with you Paul. As much as I support the newsgroup creation procedure, I have *lots* and *lots* of frustration for the lack of willingness of Russ Allmighty to let the communities self-govern their own charters through a simple amendment process. The 'ME ME ME' attitude is the problem with today's Usenet. If ISPs and NSPs would enforce charters, the will of the community would prevail ..... instead of the will of a handful of luzers!!! ( Oh my Guy, the thousands of texts I've written says it no better than this one paragraph . Empowering the people and the communities with their own governments could completely change the reflection of Usenet. Apparently this is not what the power elite desire, as they foist their obstructing hand at every opportunity. Eventually, Usenet will lose all intellegence to the competing technologies. Creating more newsgroups, while, at a faster pace, littering the landscape with burned out hulks of smoldering useless effort. This is no solution at all. Empower the people with their own chosen governments x -- One thing you can guarantee, though: if you don't try, you'll never have to find out it might have succeeded, and you can be very smug about your species' extinction as it is happening: "I _told_ them there was no way to bring peace to this planet!" - xanthian |
#9
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irritable.
148. Other techniques strike deeper that the foregoing. Education is no longer a simple affair of paddling a kid's behind when he doesn't know his lessons and patting him on the head when he does know them. It is becoming a scientific technique for controlling the child's development. Sylvan Learning Centers, for example, have had great success in motivating children to study, and psychological techniques are also used with more or less success in many conventional schools. "Parenting" techniques that are taught to parents are designed to make children accept fundamental values of the system and behave in ways that the system finds desirable. "Mental health" programs, "intervention" techniques, psychotherapy and so forth are ostensibly designed to benefit individuals, but in practice they usually serve as methods for inducing individuals to think and behave as the system requires. (There is no contradiction here; an individual whose attitudes or behavior bring him into conflict with the system is up against a force that is too powerful for him to conquer or escape from, hence he is likely to suffer from stress, frustration, defeat. His path will be much easier if he thinks and behaves as the system requires. In that sense the system is acting for the benefit of the individual when it brainwashes him into conformity.) Child abuse in its gross and obvious forms is disapproved in most if not all cultures. Tormenting a child for a trivial reason or no reason at all is something that appalls almost everyone. But many psychologists interpret the concept of abuse much more broadly. Is spanking, when used as part of a rational and consistent system of discipline, a form of abuse? The question will ultimately be decided by whether or not spanking tends to produce behavior that makes a person fit in well wit |
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