Canon 20D, final verdict?

"Tom Scales" wrote in message
...

"Si" wrote in message
...

"Bill Crocker" wrote in message
...
I've been considering the purchase of a Canon 20D. Have all the
problems settled down, and been resolved through updated firmware?

Thanks,
Bill Crocker


It appears not Bill....

I'm going to wait until Nikon bring out something to replace the D100 -
and no, before you all flame me, I don't consider the D70 to be the D100
replacement - it's a 300D competitor.

Si.


No, it's really not a 300D competitor, but it is not a D100 replacement
either. I would put it in between the two.




I've changed my mind after handling a colleague's D2H...I don't like the
handling at all...

So, rather than spend a grand plus on a 20D and grip, I'm going to be rash
and get a 1D Mk II

Si.

I have not had a single problem with my 20D and I have had it in use
since Spetember. Some people have had various problems, but the problem
traffic at www.dpreview.com has died down to an insignificant level. It
is my guess that 98% of everybody who bought this camera has had
absolutely no problems with it. I find my 20D an excellent dSLR.

I have not had a single problem with my 20D and I have had it in use
since Spetember. Some people have had various problems, but the problem
traffic at www.dpreview.com has died down to an insignificant level. It
is my guess that 98% of everybody who bought this camera has had
absolutely no problems with it. I find my 20D an excellent dSLR.

Bill Crocker wrote:

I've been considering the purchase of a Canon 20D. Have all the problems
settled down, and been resolved through updated firmware?

I got mine about 10 days ago, and it came with firmware 1.1.0. It got upset
for the first (and so far only) time yesterday, flashing Err99 at me. I
took out the battery and put it back in and it was happy again.

I'm a software engineer by trade and I've worked on embedded systems. The
software (and custom hardware) inside a device like a DSLR is going to be
incredibly complex, and therefore unlikely to be bug free. I've a feeling
that Canon pushed the product out before the software guys were really
ready. I've been there myself.

I suspect most of the issues have now been resolved. I'd certainly recommend
the camera to anyone. Dodgy firmware is no longer a reason to hold off
buying one if you want one.

--
The email address used to post is a spam pit. Contact me at
http://www.derekfountain.org : a
href="http://www.derekfountain.org/"Derek Fountain/a

Bill Crocker wrote:

I've been considering the purchase of a Canon 20D. Have all the problems
settled down, and been resolved through updated firmware?

I got mine about 10 days ago, and it came with firmware 1.1.0. It got upset
for the first (and so far only) time yesterday, flashing Err99 at me. I
took out the battery and put it back in and it was happy again.

I'm a software engineer by trade and I've worked on embedded systems. The
software (and custom hardware) inside a device like a DSLR is going to be
incredibly complex, and therefore unlikely to be bug free. I've a feeling
that Canon pushed the product out before the software guys were really
ready. I've been there myself.

I suspect most of the issues have now been resolved. I'd certainly recommend
the camera to anyone. Dodgy firmware is no longer a reason to hold off
buying one if you want one.

--
The email address used to post is a spam pit. Contact me at
http://www.derekfountain.org : a
href="http://www.derekfountain.org/"Derek Fountain/a

Confused wrote:
In message
"Joseph Meehan" wrote:

...
We don't live in a perfect world.
All problems in firmware will never be resolved

Firmware only problems CAN be resolved.

But you know they are not likely to ever get them all 100% before the
camera is ancient history.


and certainly all problems are never limited to firmware.
...

True that.

Jeff

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

Confused wrote:
In message
"Joseph Meehan" wrote:

...
We don't live in a perfect world.
All problems in firmware will never be resolved

Firmware only problems CAN be resolved.

But you know they are not likely to ever get them all 100% before the
camera is ancient history.


and certainly all problems are never limited to firmware.
...

True that.

Jeff

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

In message ,
"Joseph Meehan" wrote:

It the 20D a mature product not having an unusual number of problems,
yes. Of course about the same time any camera or computer equipment of any
type becomes mature with few problems; it will be replaced in a couple of
weeks. :-)

Fortunately, the biggest real problem of the 20D (for me), is the noise
banding in dark shadow areas, which is addressable in conversion
software. RSE supposedly gets rid of it pretty well with its noise
reduction, but I don't think it is attacking the root of the problem,
which is that every line of RAW data is slightly offset from its
neighbors in the readout bias, but all current converters use a single
value to unbias it, causing some RAW lines to be slightly brighter or
darker than others, making the noise more intense in some lines than
others, and for red and blue values especially, the noise inconsistency
is propagated to neighboring lines.

Well, the other thing is that the shutter sounds like a mousetrap. I
doubt that will ever be fixed. My 10D sounds like a P&S compared to my
20D.
--


John P Sheehy

In message ,
"Joseph Meehan" wrote:

It the 20D a mature product not having an unusual number of problems,
yes. Of course about the same time any camera or computer equipment of any
type becomes mature with few problems; it will be replaced in a couple of
weeks. :-)

Fortunately, the biggest real problem of the 20D (for me), is the noise
banding in dark shadow areas, which is addressable in conversion
software. RSE supposedly gets rid of it pretty well with its noise
reduction, but I don't think it is attacking the root of the problem,
which is that every line of RAW data is slightly offset from its
neighbors in the readout bias, but all current converters use a single
value to unbias it, causing some RAW lines to be slightly brighter or
darker than others, making the noise more intense in some lines than
others, and for red and blue values especially, the noise inconsistency
is propagated to neighboring lines.

Well, the other thing is that the shutter sounds like a mousetrap. I
doubt that will ever be fixed. My 10D sounds like a P&S compared to my
20D.
--


John P Sheehy

In message . com,
wrote:

I have not had a single problem with my 20D and I have had it in use
since Spetember. Some people have had various problems, but the problem
traffic at www.dpreview.com has died down to an insignificant level. It
is my guess that 98% of everybody who bought this camera has had
absolutely no problems with it. I find my 20D an excellent dSLR.

It depends on your threshold for complaint. The banding issue is
nothing short of pathetic, IMO. There is no excuse for Canon letting
the camera out of the gates without at least addressing blackpoint
line-by-line in its own software. It gives me the feeling that the
company is a bunch of disconnected departments, and the the part that
makes the excellent sensor has never explained to the part that makes
the readout circuitry or the JPEG-writing firmware that one single
blackpoint value does not work well for the entire image.
--


John P Sheehy