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#1
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Mirror lock up
It seems the Sony A350 does not have mirror lock up (don't know why - I
thought all DSLRs had mirror lock up). How important is it for long exposures? -- Alfred Molon ------------------------------ Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0 and E3 forum at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/ http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site |
#2
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Mirror lock up
[A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
Alfred Molon ], who wrote in article : It seems the Sony A350 does not have mirror lock up (don't know why - I thought all DSLRs had mirror lock up). How important is it for long exposures? Did you try 2-sec self-timer? Hope this helps, Ilya |
#3
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Mirror lock up
"Alfred Molon" wrote in message . .. It seems the Sony A350 does not have mirror lock up (don't know why - I thought all DSLRs had mirror lock up). How important is it for long exposures? -- Alfred Molon ------------------------------ Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0 and E3 forum at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/ http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site From my experience, mirror lockup isn't all that important for long exposures. The self-timer usually works just fine to eliminate camera shake. I suppose, if you had a really light camera, and if the mirror slams open just as the exposure begins, it might become an issue. But, I think that would be a rather rare case. The lockup thing takes on more importance when you are trying to shoot multiple fast exposures. In this case, if the mirror can't open as fast as the shutter, it gums up the works and limits the fps rate. Good Luck, Dudley |
#4
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Mirror lock up
In article , Ilya Zakharevich says...
Did you try 2-sec self-timer? I don't have the A350 (yet). What does this self-timer do? -- Alfred Molon ------------------------------ Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0 and E3 forum at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/ http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site |
#5
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Mirror lock up
Dudley Hanks wrote:
"Alfred Molon" wrote in message . .. It seems the Sony A350 does not have mirror lock up (don't know why - I thought all DSLRs had mirror lock up). How important is it for long exposures? -- Alfred Molon ------------------------------ Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0 and E3 forum at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/ http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site From my experience, mirror lockup isn't all that important for long exposures. The self-timer usually works just fine to eliminate camera shake. I suppose, if you had a really light camera, and if the mirror slams open just as the exposure begins, it might become an issue. But, I think that would be a rather rare case. The lockup thing takes on more importance when you are trying to shoot multiple fast exposures. In this case, if the mirror can't open as fast as the shutter, it gums up the works and limits the fps rate. Good Luck, Dudley I disagree with that. Between about 1/60th of a second and 1/2 second exposure, mirror-slap when the camera used on a tripod _is_ a significant effect. A self timer doesn't solve the problem. Progressively with longer exposures than that, and the effect doesn't show (the shaking subsides quickly). How bad the effect is,and at which shutter speeds it really matters depends on lens, tripod etc. With a longer lens, I'd expect that all other things being equal, the camera/lens would shake longer than with a light/short lens. I have been using a D70 (also with no MLU) for macro, and in natural light, sod's law seems to determine that most of the time you're in the critical zone where it's a real problem. I was using a 105mm lens, unfortunately with no tripod ring. I had better success with no tripod, but using a bean-bag to cradle the lens - apparently damping the mirror slap better than a tripod. Using a D80, with shutter release delay (still no full MLU), was a huge improvement. Full MLU is a further improvement. |
#6
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Mirror lock up
"frederick" wrote in message news:1205792974.829092@ftpsrv1... Dudley Hanks wrote: "Alfred Molon" wrote in message . .. It seems the Sony A350 does not have mirror lock up (don't know why - I thought all DSLRs had mirror lock up). How important is it for long exposures? -- Alfred Molon ------------------------------ Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0 and E3 forum at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/ http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site From my experience, mirror lockup isn't all that important for long exposures. The self-timer usually works just fine to eliminate camera shake. I suppose, if you had a really light camera, and if the mirror slams open just as the exposure begins, it might become an issue. But, I think that would be a rather rare case. The lockup thing takes on more importance when you are trying to shoot multiple fast exposures. In this case, if the mirror can't open as fast as the shutter, it gums up the works and limits the fps rate. Good Luck, Dudley I disagree with that. Between about 1/60th of a second and 1/2 second exposure, mirror-slap when the camera used on a tripod _is_ a significant effect. A self timer doesn't solve the problem. Progressively with longer exposures than that, and the effect doesn't show (the shaking subsides quickly). How bad the effect is,and at which shutter speeds it really matters depends on lens, tripod etc. With a longer lens, I'd expect that all other things being equal, the camera/lens would shake longer than with a light/short lens. I have been using a D70 (also with no MLU) for macro, and in natural light, sod's law seems to determine that most of the time you're in the critical zone where it's a real problem. I was using a 105mm lens, unfortunately with no tripod ring. I had better success with no tripod, but using a bean-bag to cradle the lens - apparently damping the mirror slap better than a tripod. Using a D80, with shutter release delay (still no full MLU), was a huge improvement. Full MLU is a further improvement. Well, I've hand-held many a shot in the 1/60 to 1/15 range, even 1/8 once and a while, and vibration from mirror slap was never a problem. Ditto for tripod shots. Of course, I used Canon equipment... Further, it seems to me that longer telephotos are normally heavier, so they should be impacted less by mirror vibrations. -- unless your mount was really loose and the camera was free to move independant of the lens. Perhaps that is a Nikon issue as well. As soon as VR / IS comes into play, this should be a non issue since that is exactly the range where this system works best, and most modern digital SLRs at least have an optional shake reduction system available.e. Or, doesn't Nikon's work in that range? Smile, Dudley |
#7
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Mirror lock up
Dudley Hanks wrote:
"frederick" wrote in message news:1205792974.829092@ftpsrv1... Dudley Hanks wrote: "Alfred Molon" wrote in message . .. It seems the Sony A350 does not have mirror lock up (don't know why - I thought all DSLRs had mirror lock up). How important is it for long exposures? -- Alfred Molon ------------------------------ Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0 and E3 forum at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/ http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site From my experience, mirror lockup isn't all that important for long exposures. The self-timer usually works just fine to eliminate camera shake. I suppose, if you had a really light camera, and if the mirror slams open just as the exposure begins, it might become an issue. But, I think that would be a rather rare case. The lockup thing takes on more importance when you are trying to shoot multiple fast exposures. In this case, if the mirror can't open as fast as the shutter, it gums up the works and limits the fps rate. Good Luck, Dudley I disagree with that. Between about 1/60th of a second and 1/2 second exposure, mirror-slap when the camera used on a tripod _is_ a significant effect. A self timer doesn't solve the problem. Progressively with longer exposures than that, and the effect doesn't show (the shaking subsides quickly). How bad the effect is,and at which shutter speeds it really matters depends on lens, tripod etc. With a longer lens, I'd expect that all other things being equal, the camera/lens would shake longer than with a light/short lens. I have been using a D70 (also with no MLU) for macro, and in natural light, sod's law seems to determine that most of the time you're in the critical zone where it's a real problem. I was using a 105mm lens, unfortunately with no tripod ring. I had better success with no tripod, but using a bean-bag to cradle the lens - apparently damping the mirror slap better than a tripod. Using a D80, with shutter release delay (still no full MLU), was a huge improvement. Full MLU is a further improvement. Well, I've hand-held many a shot in the 1/60 to 1/15 range, even 1/8 once and a while, and vibration from mirror slap was never a problem. Ditto for tripod shots. Of course, I used Canon equipment... Lol - I can tell when someone's using a rebel when they are 20 feet behind me, my eyes are closed, and volume on my iPod is less than full. Further, it seems to me that longer telephotos are normally heavier, so they should be impacted less by mirror vibrations. -- unless your mount was really loose and the camera was free to move independant of the lens. Longer means that a small movement is seen more, also I expect that inertia an lower "resonance frequency" of a long lens on a tripod means that even if it shakes less, the effect is probably seen more, and/or at different shutter speeds. Perhaps that is a Nikon issue as well. Lol As soon as VR / IS comes into play, this should be a non issue since that is exactly the range where this system works best, and most modern digital SLRs at least have an optional shake reduction system available.e. Or, doesn't Nikon's work in that range? Nikon, in a rare moment of non-brilliance, produced a solution for a problem that wasn't needed, and doesn't work anyway. They made a macro lens with VR. VR doesn't work with Macro. Macro is what I'd use MLU/release delay mode for, and IS is a complete waste of time. YMMV. |
#8
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Mirror lock up
"frederick" wrote in message news:1205800363.484372@ftpsrv1... Dudley Hanks wrote: "frederick" wrote in message news:1205792974.829092@ftpsrv1... Dudley Hanks wrote: "Alfred Molon" wrote in message . .. It seems the Sony A350 does not have mirror lock up (don't know why - I thought all DSLRs had mirror lock up). How important is it for long exposures? -- Alfred Molon ------------------------------ Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0 and E3 forum at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/ http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site From my experience, mirror lockup isn't all that important for long exposures. The self-timer usually works just fine to eliminate camera shake. I suppose, if you had a really light camera, and if the mirror slams open just as the exposure begins, it might become an issue. But, I think that would be a rather rare case. The lockup thing takes on more importance when you are trying to shoot multiple fast exposures. In this case, if the mirror can't open as fast as the shutter, it gums up the works and limits the fps rate. Good Luck, Dudley I disagree with that. Between about 1/60th of a second and 1/2 second exposure, mirror-slap when the camera used on a tripod _is_ a significant effect. A self timer doesn't solve the problem. Progressively with longer exposures than that, and the effect doesn't show (the shaking subsides quickly). How bad the effect is,and at which shutter speeds it really matters depends on lens, tripod etc. With a longer lens, I'd expect that all other things being equal, the camera/lens would shake longer than with a light/short lens. I have been using a D70 (also with no MLU) for macro, and in natural light, sod's law seems to determine that most of the time you're in the critical zone where it's a real problem. I was using a 105mm lens, unfortunately with no tripod ring. I had better success with no tripod, but using a bean-bag to cradle the lens - apparently damping the mirror slap better than a tripod. Using a D80, with shutter release delay (still no full MLU), was a huge improvement. Full MLU is a further improvement. Well, I've hand-held many a shot in the 1/60 to 1/15 range, even 1/8 once and a while, and vibration from mirror slap was never a problem. Ditto for tripod shots. Of course, I used Canon equipment... Lol - I can tell when someone's using a rebel when they are 20 feet behind me, my eyes are closed, and volume on my iPod is less than full. You walk around with your eyes closed and listening to your ipodat high volumes? I didn't realize I am not the only user on this group with a guide dog... But, I know what you mean. I'm still looking for the silencer I'm sure Canon included with the packing material... Further, it seems to me that longer telephotos are normally heavier, so they should be impacted less by mirror vibrations. -- unless your mount was really loose and the camera was free to move independant of the lens. Longer means that a small movement is seen more, also I expect that inertia an lower "resonance frequency" of a long lens on a tripod means that even if it shakes less, the effect is probably seen more, and/or at different shutter speeds. This is an interesting question. Which factor impacts mirror slap related vibrations more, lens weight or focal length? I tend to think that lens weight plays a bigger role because the lens would have to slap harder to get the lens moving. Minimal lens slap, and I think most modern cameras tend to have only minimal slap, would be damped by the weight of most telephoto lenses. I think this is one reason why VR / IS works fairly well. On the flip side, though, you are right. Whatever vibration is there will be magnified by the longer focal length. Perhaps that is a Nikon issue as well. Lol I should point out that in my previous reply, I had to bite my tongue. I was going to add a little barb that the rumour mill is rampant about Nikon's new ABC system which will cut down on camera wear and tear and act as a support mechanism to the company's embattled VR system. With ABC standing for Air Buffered Components... As soon as VR / IS comes into play, this should be a non issue since that is exactly the range where this system works best, and most modern digital SLRs at least have an optional shake reduction system available.e. Or, doesn't Nikon's work in that range? Nikon, in a rare moment of non-brilliance, produced a solution for a problem that wasn't needed, and doesn't work I thought it was Panasonic that is "slightly ahead of its time." anyway. They made a macro lens with VR. VR doesn't work with Macro. Macro is what I'd use MLU/release delay mode for, and IS is a complete waste of time. I haven't done much macro work, so I can't comment on that area, yet. Lately, I've been trying out some quasi-macro shots with my Powershot A720 IS, but, the mirror slap is still a non-issue with this camera. Maybe, I'll just have to bite the bullet and get a macro lens for the Rebel... YMMV. Take Care, Dudley |
#9
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Mirror lock up
Dudley Hanks wrote:
I haven't done much macro work, so I can't comment on that area, yet. Lately, I've been trying out some quasi-macro shots with my Powershot A720 IS, but, the mirror slap is still a non-issue with this camera. Maybe, I'll just have to bite the bullet and get a macro lens for the Rebel... I do a bit of landscape shooting too, but generally using such a wide lens that mirror-slap is a non event at any shutter speed. I'd guess it would be more of a problem with a long telephoto as it is with macro where the problem is that unless bumping ISO right up beyond reason, outdoors - unless in (preferably filtered) sunlight, at f8-16, the shutter speed falls longer than 1/60th more often than not. If you're shooting very close in natural light, expect some frustrations with the dslr - it's not easy compared to using a compact camera, and it might take a while to get results that improve on what you can already get. |
#10
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Mirror lock up
"Dudley Hanks" wrote in message news:icFDj.106899$w57.44572@edtnps90... "frederick" wrote in message news:1205800363.484372@ftpsrv1... Dudley Hanks wrote: "frederick" wrote in message news:1205792974.829092@ftpsrv1... Dudley Hanks wrote: "Alfred Molon" wrote in message . .. It seems the Sony A350 does not have mirror lock up (don't know why - I thought all DSLRs had mirror lock up). How important is it for long exposures? -- Alfred Molon ------------------------------ Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0 and E3 forum at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/ http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site From my experience, mirror lockup isn't all that important for long exposures. The self-timer usually works just fine to eliminate camera shake. I suppose, if you had a really light camera, and if the mirror slams open just as the exposure begins, it might become an issue. But, I think that would be a rather rare case. The lockup thing takes on more importance when you are trying to shoot multiple fast exposures. In this case, if the mirror can't open as fast as the shutter, it gums up the works and limits the fps rate. Good Luck, Dudley I disagree with that. Between about 1/60th of a second and 1/2 second exposure, mirror-slap when the camera used on a tripod _is_ a significant effect. A self timer doesn't solve the problem. Progressively with longer exposures than that, and the effect doesn't show (the shaking subsides quickly). How bad the effect is,and at which shutter speeds it really matters depends on lens, tripod etc. With a longer lens, I'd expect that all other things being equal, the camera/lens would shake longer than with a light/short lens. I have been using a D70 (also with no MLU) for macro, and in natural light, sod's law seems to determine that most of the time you're in the critical zone where it's a real problem. I was using a 105mm lens, unfortunately with no tripod ring. I had better success with no tripod, but using a bean-bag to cradle the lens - apparently damping the mirror slap better than a tripod. Using a D80, with shutter release delay (still no full MLU), was a huge improvement. Full MLU is a further improvement. Well, I've hand-held many a shot in the 1/60 to 1/15 range, even 1/8 once and a while, and vibration from mirror slap was never a problem. Ditto for tripod shots. Of course, I used Canon equipment... Lol - I can tell when someone's using a rebel when they are 20 feet behind me, my eyes are closed, and volume on my iPod is less than full. You walk around with your eyes closed and listening to your ipodat high volumes? I didn't realize I am not the only user on this group with a guide dog... But, I know what you mean. I'm still looking for the silencer I'm sure Canon included with the packing material... Further, it seems to me that longer telephotos are normally heavier, so they should be impacted less by mirror vibrations. -- unless your mount was really loose and the camera was free to move independant of the lens. Longer means that a small movement is seen more, also I expect that inertia an lower "resonance frequency" of a long lens on a tripod means that even if it shakes less, the effect is probably seen more, and/or at different shutter speeds. This is an interesting question. Which factor impacts mirror slap related vibrations more, lens weight or focal length? I tend to think that lens weight plays a bigger role because the lens would have to slap harder to get the lens moving. Minimal lens slap, and I think most modern cameras tend to have only minimal slap, would be damped by the weight of most telephoto lenses. I think this is one reason why VR / IS works fairly well. On the flip side, though, you are right. Whatever vibration is there will be magnified by the longer focal length. Perhaps that is a Nikon issue as well. Lol I should point out that in my previous reply, I had to bite my tongue. I was going to add a little barb that the rumour mill is rampant about Nikon's new ABC system which will cut down on camera wear and tear and act as a support mechanism to the company's embattled VR system. With ABC standing for Air Buffered Components... As soon as VR / IS comes into play, this should be a non issue since that is exactly the range where this system works best, and most modern digital SLRs at least have an optional shake reduction system available.e. Or, doesn't Nikon's work in that range? Nikon, in a rare moment of non-brilliance, produced a solution for a problem that wasn't needed, and doesn't work I thought it was Panasonic that is "slightly ahead of its time." anyway. They made a macro lens with VR. VR doesn't work with Macro. Macro is what I'd use MLU/release delay mode for, and IS is a complete waste of time. I haven't done much macro work, so I can't comment on that area, yet. Lately, I've been trying out some quasi-macro shots with my Powershot A720 IS, but, the mirror slap is still a non-issue with this camera. Maybe, I'll just have to bite the bullet and get a macro lens for the Rebel... YMMV. Take Care, Dudley Have to agree with Frederick here, IMHE, macros (assuming a non moving target) works much better with MLU and no IS/VR with close subjects. |
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