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#31
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Olympus SLR boss says 12 MP is enough
Alfred Molon wrote:
In article , Bruce says... Your volume calculations are of course designed to mislead because the EOS 450D has a grip whereas the E420 does not. These are based on data published on dpreview and are accurate. There are lies, damn lies, and "accurate" data. Data can be used to inform, or mislead. You are using it to mislead. Face it, you cannot adequately describe the size of a complex curved shape such as a DSLR body by mere length, depth and height. I repeat, the Canon "data" includes measuring a substantial hand grip that the Olympus E4 20 simply doesn't have, so it is completely misleading. But you knew that. Indeed, your intention throughout this discussion has been to mislead people with unrepresentative data. In the end, what matters is not your personal obsession with Olympus, or my personal obsession with honesty and objectivity, and with your apparent lack of either. The only thing that matters is the choice that buyers make. And it is clear that only a vanishingly small number of buyers choose Olympus over the only very slightly larger competition. So when weighed against the significantly better image quality that APS-C DSLRs can produce, we can conclude that the very slightly smaller physical size of Olympus DSLRs is not a significant selling point. |
#32
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Olympus SLR boss says 12 MP is enough
Alfred Molon wrote:
For the overwhelming majority of people the image quality obtainable by a 4/3 sensor (or even smaller) is more than sufficient. The number of people who have more stringent image quality requirement is very small. For the overwhelming majority of people the image quality obtainable by a P&S sensor is more than sufficient. The number of people who have more stringent image quality requirement is very small, and the huge majority of those people choose DSLRs with APS-C and larger sensors. And, for the avoidance of doubt, only a vanishingly small number of them choose Four Thirds. |
#33
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Olympus SLR boss says 12 MP is enough
In article , Bruce says...
There are lies, damn lies, and "accurate" data. Data can be used to inform, or mislead. You are using it to mislead. Face it, you cannot adequately describe the size of a complex curved shape such as a DSLR body by mere length, depth and height. I repeat, the Canon "data" includes measuring a substantial hand grip that the Olympus E4 20 simply doesn't have, so it is completely misleading. But you knew that. Indeed, your intention throughout this discussion has been to mislead people with unrepresentative data. In the end, what matters is not your personal obsession with Olympus, or my personal obsession with honesty and objectivity, and with your apparent lack of either. The only thing that matters is the choice that buyers make. And it is clear that only a vanishingly small number of buyers choose Olympus over the only very slightly larger competition. So when weighed against the significantly better image quality that APS-C DSLRs can produce, we can conclude that the very slightly smaller physical size of Olympus DSLRs is not a significant selling point. Bruce, your message is full of personal attacks - I'm killfiling you. It's pointless to continue to discuss with you. -- Alfred Molon ------------------------ Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0, E620, E30, E3 forum at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/ http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site |
#34
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Olympus SLR boss says 12 MP is enough
In article , Chris Malcolm says...
Am I right in assuming that with no filter attached there is no bad unrecoverable vignetting problem? If so, you might like to look into the possibilities of using a wider polarising filter with a step up conversion ring. It's not as bad without polariser filter, so the step-up ring would be an option. But I already spent 100 Euro on this high quality polariser filter, and I'm not too enthusiastic forking out another 100-200 Euro for a larger high quality polariser filter + the step up ring. It's also not clear why Sony chose to "standardise" around 62mm [lens diameter] for its line of Alpha DSLRs considering that they chose 67mm as lens diameter for their Sony R1. Needless to say, the R1 has far less vignetting than the A350. The camera with the best vignetting performance I have used so far is the Olympus 8080, which has a 8.8x6.6mm sensor combined with a huge 58mm lens. Excellent lens and *no vignetting* at all. Compare that with the 22mm sensor of the A350 and the 62mm lens diameter. Why on earth do manufacturers design such small lenses when the sensor is so big? I had a look at the Pentax K20D last year. Huge body (relatively), but then it had a tiny little lens on it. How brainless can designers be to put such a small lens on an APS-C DSLR. Lenses should have a diameter of 100mm or more, if you want to get the same vignetting performance as the one of the Olympus 8080. By the way, even if you correct the vignetting in post-processing, you still have a loss of 1-3 stops in the corners = more noise, less dynamic range. -- Alfred Molon ------------------------ Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0, E620, E30, E3 forum at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/ http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site |
#35
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Olympus SLR boss says 12 MP is enough
Alfred Molon wrote:
In article , Bruce says... snip to the crux of the matter So when weighed against the significantly better image quality that APS-C DSLRs can produce, we can conclude that the very slightly smaller physical size of Olympus DSLRs is not a significant selling point. Bruce, your message is full of personal attacks - I'm killfiling you. It's pointless to continue to discuss with you. You just can't face it when your argument is shredded by pointing out the facts don't support your assertions. If you want to see the ultimate shredding of the silly Olympus/FourThirds "telecentricity" requirement and it's effect on lens bulk, just look at the Leica M8. The M8 has "two strikes" against it (shorter register distance and larger sensor) but can still produce excellent images with much smaller lenses than any of the FourThirds offerings to date and fairly a small camera body to boot. Face it Alfred, it's you who just can't "face the the music". Especially when it isn't playing your tune. |
#36
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Olympus SLR boss says 12 MP is enough
On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 19:26:26 -0400, Michael Benveniste
wrote: snip shoot. Yeah, I had a Minolta 110 camera. I remember foolishly buying some slide film for it, getting back slides with the tiny positive in a big square of cardboard. About once a year, I shoot a roll with my Pentax 110 SLR just for fun. I do have to send it out by mail for processing, though. I've got the Pentax 110 SLR, the Minolta SLR and the Rollei A110. I shoot several rolls a year, as you say, just for fun, and for the challenge of getting something useful from so small a negative and such restricted film choices. The local place that develops my 35 mm. film will still develop the film for me, but they can't print it, so I scan the negatives and "print" them in Photoshop Elements. I have a sentimental attachment to 110s, as the first camera I ever bought for myself was a Kodak Ektra II 110. |
#37
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Olympus SLR boss says 12 MP is enough
Alfred Molon wrote:
In article , SMS says... But the Micro 4:3 cameras suffer from many of the drawbacks of P&S cameras, How would you know, given that there is just one model on the market right now. It's inherent to the design. |
#38
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Olympus SLR boss says 12 MP is enough
Alfred Molon wrote:
In article , SMS says... 4:3 is the answer to a question that nobody asked. Kind of like APS film. It matters to all those who want to have a smaller camera with a large sensor and excellent lenses (due to the telecentric design). Smaller sensors allow that. Not everybody wants to lug around a huge and heavy full-frame DSLR. Volume and weight of lenses go up with the cube of the (linear) sensor size. First you say people want smaller cameras with larger sensors, then you say that smaller sensors allow smaller cameras. You're very confused. |
#39
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Olympus SLR boss says 12 MP is enough
Mark Thomas wrote:
For the overwhelming majority of people the image quality obtainable by a P&S sensor is more than sufficient. The number of people who have more stringent image quality requirement is very small, and the huge majority of those people choose DSLRs with APS-C and larger sensors. And, for the avoidance of doubt, only a vanishingly small number of them choose Four Thirds. Bruce, you are offering these precise, unambiguous, undebatable opinions with great gusto - what is your background? How is it that you speak for the majority? How is it that you have extensively used all these cameras and know so much about their limitations? I don't suppose you are a camera store salesperson, by chance? Those two statements are not opinions, they are supported by the market data. The overwhelmingly majority of people choose P&S cameras and are satisfied with the image quality (though often dissatisfied with other aspects of the P&S camera). Those wanting higher image quality choose a D-SLR, and only a tiny percentage choose Olympus, and it's because of 4:3, either directly or indirectly, that they don't even consider Olympus. |
#40
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Olympus SLR boss says 12 MP is enough
SMS wrote in
: Alfred Molon wrote: In article , SMS says... 4:3 is the answer to a question that nobody asked. Kind of like APS film. It matters to all those who want to have a smaller camera with a large sensor and excellent lenses (due to the telecentric design). Smaller sensors allow that. Not everybody wants to lug around a huge and heavy full-frame DSLR. Volume and weight of lenses go up with the cube of the (linear) sensor size. First you say people want smaller cameras with larger sensors, then you say that smaller sensors allow smaller cameras. You're very confused. Small DSLRs are limited in one sense, they are not comfortable to hold with larger lenses. We need compact interchangeable lens cameras (like Olympus's proposed u4/3rds models) but have to work within their constraints, which means menu-driven commands and small lenses. |
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