Four-thirds?

"Lourens Smak" wrote:
Brian C. Baird wrote:

But the fact
remains, whether you like the camera or not, the 4/3 format is a dead
end technology wise.

Why?

Because there's no way to increase the pixel count without increasing noise.

If you don't mind being stuck at that pixel count with those noise levels
till hell freezes over, it's a fine camera.

because you own a dozen lenses that were designed for 35mm?

It's not about lenses I own, it's about the lenses I don't own but would
like to. Where are the fast primes for the E-1? Where are the tilt/shift
lenses?

While
you wait for the affordable full-frame dust-collector, we move on. It's
just time for something new.

Yup, the wait is getting long. I decided to pass on the 6MP generation and
do medium format film. But scanning's getting old, and the
affordable/liftable 1Ds is nowhere in sight. Sigh. But I sure as hell won't
be buying anything that doesn't have at least a potential upgrade path to
the quality I'm getting now.

The funny thing is, the old 35mm lenses that you so desparately want to
keep, don't even provide 11MP of image-information. (well, some of them
do, at F8) I recently shot with the 1Ds + 16-35 L at F2.8, and you have
lots of pixels, but you probably don't even have 5MP of actual image
info, and the corners just simply suck. The E-1 kicks ass at F2.8.

Except for the minor problem that there isn't a 16mm rectilinear lens for
the E-1, so your comparison is totally bogus. The widest rectilinear lens is
a 22mm equivalent, which is a completely different class of lens. There are
five good prime lenses in the 20 to 24mm range for the 1Ds: three Canon and
two Sigmas (if you need the speed/price), three of which are faster than
that zoom, and any of which will be a lot better on the 1Ds than that zoom
on the E-1.

At 8 or 10MP, the quality of the system will really start to show.

Yup. One probably will need primes, but that's not a change he I don't
own any zooms. But I bet that if you did am honest comparison between prints
from the 1Ds with the 16-35/2.8 at 22mm and the 11-22 zoom on the E-1 at
11mm, you'd find that the 1Ds prints were a lot better.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan

In article ,
dy (Bill Hilton) wrote:

From: Steve Hix NVALID

they may all be waiting to see of Olympus is going to do
OK. Sort of like penguins at the edge of an iceflow.

I was thinking lemmings at the edge of a cliff ... hard to see how this format
will gain much market share ...

"Knowledgeable" types said the same thing about 35mm kit back in the
1930s.

I doubt that it will supplant the high end of dSLR gear, but figure it's
going to find a healthy niche position. Their small/faster lens line,
for starters, is pretty compelling.

There's only so much call for 16x20 and larger prints, after all. The
E-1's first cut looks pretty good, and the technology is not at its
upper limit just yet.

Skip M wrote:

I'm glad you said that about the sample images, I was afraid it was just me.
I looked at some of the images posted by one of the participants in the
forum, and thought they were marginally better than similar images I've
taken with my D30, not up to what my wife's 10D is capable.
I find it interesting that the impressions that the users have is so
different from the reviewer's.

It's a pleasant surprise when a camera's rep exceeds a review. The users
on dpreview's forum are wild about this camera - from the first moment
they pick it up. The rep is that the images are correct straight from
the camera, and require no manipulation in Photoshop. That would indeed
be a pleasure.

Gary Eickmeier

Skip M wrote:

I'm glad you said that about the sample images, I was afraid it was just me.
I looked at some of the images posted by one of the participants in the
forum, and thought they were marginally better than similar images I've
taken with my D30, not up to what my wife's 10D is capable.
I find it interesting that the impressions that the users have is so
different from the reviewer's.

It's a pleasant surprise when a camera's rep exceeds a review. The users
on dpreview's forum are wild about this camera - from the first moment
they pick it up. The rep is that the images are correct straight from
the camera, and require no manipulation in Photoshop. That would indeed
be a pleasure.

Gary Eickmeier

In article ,
nospam wrote:

the main problem for me, is the camera is essentially the same size as
the rebel/d70/*ist.

since the sensor is smaller, give me a camera that is *noticably*
smaller, not the same size. if the camera is essentially the same size,
then i want a bigger and better sensor. plus, there are a LOT of
nikon/canon/pentax lenses around, new and used.

Wait for the (sorta) budget-level SLR. That will likely be down in the
*ist size range.

"Steve Hix" wrote in message
...
In article ,
nospam wrote:

the main problem for me, is the camera is essentially the same size as
the rebel/d70/*ist.

since the sensor is smaller, give me a camera that is *noticably*
smaller, not the same size. if the camera is essentially the same size,
then i want a bigger and better sensor. plus, there are a LOT of
nikon/canon/pentax lenses around, new and used.

Wait for the (sorta) budget-level SLR. That will likely be down in the
*ist size range.

Looked at an *ist the other day, that one's a little TOO small, at least for
my hands, and my hands aren't all that big. But it's the size that could
really utilize the smaller sensor, if the Oly is bigger, one has to wonder
why bother?

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com

"Brian C. Baird" wrote in message
.. .

Like I said, it's a great niche product. It works well. However, it
really isn't any lighter, the lens selection is limited and the noise,
resolution and feature set of the camera doesn't beat the competition.

I had a Canon APS Elph. It was a great product in spite of being APS, but
most APS cameras were not great. 4/3 will run into the same brick wall as
APS. It's an attempt to go to a smaller sensor size so you can have cheaper
cameras and lenses. But with film, at least the quality scaled linearly with
frame size. There will be some good 4/3 products and some poor ones. There
was even an APS SLR at one point, and it was closed out at a very cheap
price.

Canon will bring out a full frame, or close to full frame, consumer digital
SLR for $1000, and that will be the end of 4/3. Consumers like an upgrade
path, even if they'll never upgrade, and a large selection of lenses, even
though they'll only ever buy a few.

In article ,
Lourens Smak wrote:
The funny thing is, the old 35mm lenses that you so desparately want to
keep, don't even provide 11MP of image-information. (well, some of them
do, at F8) I recently shot with the 1Ds + 16-35 L at F2.8, and you have
lots of pixels, but you probably don't even have 5MP of actual image
info, and the corners just simply suck.

And the whole world consists just of wide angle zooms? Try a 50mm prime
for a change.




--
The Electronic Monk was a labor-saving device, like a dishwasher or a video
recorder. [...] Video recorders watched tedious television for you, thus saving
you the bother of looking at it yourself; Electronic Monks believed things for
you, [...] -- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency

In article ,
Lourens Smak wrote:
The funny thing is, the old 35mm lenses that you so desparately want to
keep, don't even provide 11MP of image-information. (well, some of them
do, at F8) I recently shot with the 1Ds + 16-35 L at F2.8, and you have
lots of pixels, but you probably don't even have 5MP of actual image
info, and the corners just simply suck.

And the whole world consists just of wide angle zooms? Try a 50mm prime
for a change.




--
The Electronic Monk was a labor-saving device, like a dishwasher or a video
recorder. [...] Video recorders watched tedious television for you, thus saving
you the bother of looking at it yourself; Electronic Monks believed things for
you, [...] -- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency

Skip M writes:

Looked at an *ist the other day, that one's a little TOO small, at least for
my hands, and my hands aren't all that big.

Just bought an *ist. My hands are small--for my size (but I'm 6'2" and kind of
chunky these days)--but I like all the controls except the jog dial. I have to
use a fingernail to hit the arrows correctly. But with the menu set-up on here,
unlike my Dimage 7i, the menu is used for basic set-up, when you've got plenty
of time, so doesn't need much attention during most shooting.

Charlie Self
"When you appeal to force, there's one thing you must never do - lose." Dwight
D. Eisenhower