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Backup Advice wanted
For various reasons including a bad sector issue with one of my current
backup drives, I am installing a new primary backup drive. It is a Seagate 4T, not a mirror. I have decided on Acronis for my BU software, as it makes incremental images of my C drive, and will also make incremental BUs of the Data Drive. My current set up is all programs plus all data, except photo images are on my C drive. All photo images are on an external USB 3 drive, which is about 75% full. (2T) I will soon replace the external 2T with a high capacity internal. Any suggestions are appreciated. Please do not turn this into a flame war. I will consider any and all suggestions, including different software, and additional BU drives. -- PeterN |
#2
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Backup Advice wanted
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#3
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Backup Advice wanted
I would go with a disk image including installed software.
Then put *all* data on other drives. The data and the OS + software is like the tralier and the tractor. If the tractor (C drive) dies you can attach a new one and be on your way. There's no reason to risk the cargo. That way you can also skip the bloat and work of incremental backups. You shouldn't need to be backing up C drive again. Disk imaging is not an incremental thing. That misses the whole point. Just copy over your relevant App Data folders, Documents, whatever to backup on a regular basis and leave your disk image alone until you need to write it back to disk. I like to disk image (using BootIt), then back up data, email, etc periodically. That's all on 2 different disks that are mostly redundant. I also write the backup to CD, then I occasionally also store those CDs elsewhere. I wouldn't trust anything to just being on local hard disks. The vast photo collection should be on some kind of external backup. If you really want to keep 2-3 TB then you might want to use an extra hard disk as remote backup. (Everything I have can fit on a few DVDs, so I use that method.) There should also be some order to things. You shouldn't need to back up 2 TB periodically. You should have some kind of permanent backup of the vast bulk of it and only need to back up the new data periodically. So, for instance, you might store your library on a hard disk and then write periodic DVDs for new data. To look at it another way: People have different preferences. However you do it is up to you, but if it's good backup then it should be reasonably convenient and you should be able to lose your computer to theft or electrical surge tomorrow without it being a disaster. "PeterN" wrote in message ... | For various reasons including a bad sector issue with one of my current | backup drives, I am installing a new primary backup drive. | It is a Seagate 4T, not a mirror. I have decided on Acronis for my BU | software, as it makes incremental images of my C drive, and will also | make incremental BUs of the Data Drive. My current set up is all | programs plus all data, except photo images are on my C drive. All photo | images are on an external USB 3 drive, which is about 75% full. (2T) | I will soon replace the external 2T with a high capacity internal. | | | Any suggestions are appreciated. Please do not turn this into a flame | war. I will consider any and all suggestions, including different | software, and additional BU drives. | | | | | | | -- | PeterN |
#4
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Backup Advice wanted
In article , PeterN
wrote: For various reasons including a bad sector issue with one of my current backup drives, I am installing a new primary backup drive. It is a Seagate 4T, not a mirror. I have decided on Acronis for my BU software, as it makes incremental images of my C drive, and will also make incremental BUs of the Data Drive. My current set up is all programs plus all data, except photo images are on my C drive. All photo images are on an external USB 3 drive, which is about 75% full. (2T) I will soon replace the external 2T with a high capacity internal. Any suggestions are appreciated. Please do not turn this into a flame war. I will consider any and all suggestions, including different software, and additional BU drives. have more than one copy (the more the merrier), with at least one offsite somewhere. |
#5
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Backup Advice wanted
In article , Mayayana
wrote: I would go with a disk image including installed software. Then put *all* data on other drives. The data and the OS + software is like the tralier and the tractor. If the tractor (C drive) dies you can attach a new one and be on your way. There's no reason to risk the cargo. there is not a clean separation and restoring everything is much easier than piecemealing it. That way you can also skip the bloat and work of incremental backups. You shouldn't need to be backing up C drive again. Disk imaging is not an incremental thing. That misses the whole point. Just copy over your relevant App Data folders, Documents, whatever to backup on a regular basis and leave your disk image alone until you need to write it back to disk. what bloat? and hard drives are cheap anyway. what doesn't change doesn't get backed up again. I like to disk image (using BootIt), then back up data, email, etc periodically. That's all on 2 different disks that are mostly redundant. I also write the backup to CD, then I occasionally also store those CDs elsewhere. I wouldn't trust anything to just being on local hard disks. true but cds are a poor choice because of the hassles, potential bit rot and very small size. i have single files that need a dozen cds just for one file. at least use dvd. The vast photo collection should be on some kind of external backup. If you really want to keep 2-3 TB then you might want to use an extra hard disk as remote backup. offsite is required for a good strategy. (Everything I have can fit on a few DVDs, so I use that method.) apparently. There should also be some order to things. what for? let the backup software worry about it. You shouldn't need to back up 2 TB periodically. You should have some kind of permanent backup of the vast bulk of it and only need to back up the new data periodically. that's what backup software does, all automatically. So, for instance, you might store your library on a hard disk and then write periodic DVDs for new data. yuk. then you have to piece it all back together. To look at it another way: People have different preferences. However you do it is up to you, but if it's good backup then it should be reasonably convenient and you should be able to lose your computer to theft or electrical surge tomorrow without it being a disaster. that part is true. |
#6
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Backup Advice wanted
In addition to choosing backup methods and software, you should also think
about and plan for disaster; theft, fire, storms, earthquake, etc. My scheme is to use Acronis for all my backups. My OS is on an SSD, programs on my D: drive, data on my E: drive and Photos/music on my F: drive. I do a complete full backup of my C:, D:, and E: drives on a 1TB external drive each week to 10 days. I do an incremental backup of my F: drive on another 1TB (could be larger) drive and keep them in a safe that is water and fire resistant. I obtained the safe from Costco. It has an electronic lock. I just hope it is never needed. I like the safe over a safety deposit box because it is easy and quick to access, thereby encouraging backups. Since I do some teaching and consulting, I also back up my E: drive (data) on a portable 1 TB drive that I can carry with me. Gordo "PeterN" wrote in message ... For various reasons including a bad sector issue with one of my current backup drives, I am installing a new primary backup drive. It is a Seagate 4T, not a mirror. I have decided on Acronis for my BU software, as it makes incremental images of my C drive, and will also make incremental BUs of the Data Drive. My current set up is all programs plus all data, except photo images are on my C drive. All photo images are on an external USB 3 drive, which is about 75% full. (2T) I will soon replace the external 2T with a high capacity internal. Any suggestions are appreciated. Please do not turn this into a flame war. I will consider any and all suggestions, including different software, and additional BU drives. -- PeterN |
#7
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Backup Advice wanted
| I would go with a disk image including installed software.
| Then put *all* data on other drives. The data and the OS | + software is like the tralier and the tractor. If the tractor | (C drive) dies you can attach a new one and be on your way. | There's no reason to risk the cargo. | | there is not a clean separation and restoring everything is much easier | than piecemealing it. There are probably important distinctions here for Mac vs Windows. I've been doing disk imaging for years and have no trouble making a "clean separation" between OS and data. But one does need to know where important data is and how to back it up. That can require some research on Windows. Generally any folders/files that one didn't directly create oneself are either in the Documents folder or in the personal App Data folder. I don't know how it works on Macs. Maybe what you say is true for you if there's no realistic way to find your data on a Mac. On Windows, at least, once one knows what needs to be backed up, and how to do it, the disk image system works well. I think it's important to distinguish between disk imaging and backup imaging. What many people are doing, what might be called backup imaging, is incremental and/or periodic backups of their C drive. That's like Windows System Restore. It developed as a popular, non-techy substitute to disk imaging. That's OK if you don't want to get into learning the technical aspects of making disk images and backing up data separately, but essentially backup imaging is a clunky method for people who don't want to deal with technical issues. (I don't even have Windows System Restore enabled. With disk imaging it would just be a waste of space.) Either way, it still comes down to the same thing: You can do whatever you like for backup so long as it works for you and it passes the basic backup test: If your computer is cooked today by an electrical surge, are you OK? If your house burns down today, are you OK? OK means having a copy of your OS, all of your software, and all of your data, that you can easily restore to functionality. With disk imaging, using Windows, I only need an image and my backup data. I can then install the image to a new machine if necessary and all of my software is there. If you don't have that then you'll need backup copies of your software install disks, product keys, etc. And all of those need to be also backed up offsite by copying the install disks and writing any necessary activation codes on those disks. With Macs, since you can't just buy or build a cheap box to reinstall on, I guess you'll have to just buy a new Mac if yours is cooked or stolen. And I have no idea whether you can actually make disk images of your Mac system with programs like Photoshop and all other software already installed, to be restored back to disk in the future. (Photoshop may no longer be relevant if you're using Adobe's cloud system, but I assume most everyone still has software that gets installed on dosk from an install CD or DVD.) That may be another factor in favor of your approach, for people on Macs: There's no point having disk images if you can't use them. For people on Windows that's not a problem. The only obstacle for Windows disk imaging is possible technical challenges in making images, restoring them, restoring them to new hardware with a different motherboard, etc. | I like to disk image (using BootIt), then back up data, | email, etc periodically. That's all on 2 different disks that | are mostly redundant. I also write the backup to CD, then I | occasionally also store those CDs elsewhere. I wouldn't | trust anything to just being on local hard disks. | | true but cds are a poor choice because of the hassles, potential bit | rot and very small size. | | i have single files that need a dozen cds just for one file. | at least use dvd. You're making all sorts of assumptions that are not valid. First, I've never failed to retrieve data on a disk. Second, I make redundant copies and replace them occasionally, just in case. Third, *I don't need DVDs for my basic backup*. My OS/software disk image fits on a CD. My periodic, recent-files backup also fits on a CD. I then use DVDs for graphics, photos, large data files, etc -- large amounts of data that I want to keep but which don't change. I'm distinguishing between permanent, large scale backup (Windows service packs, old photos, large software installers, videos I want to keep) and recent backup (email, work docs, program data, and any other personal/business/system files that might be handy to have on recent backup). Again, it might not be your chosen method, and it may or may not be the best choice for PeterN, but it's worked well for me. It's also the method I use for several friends whose PCs I manage. |
#8
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Backup Advice wanted
nospam wrote:
have more than one copy (the more the merrier), IMO, three (3) is an effective minimum rule-of-thumb. with at least one offsite somewhere. A couple of locations that are potentially "easy": - desk drawer at work - family's house - safety deposit box @ local bank FWIW, for "on site" copies, do at least move it offline and then box it and put it in another room in the house. Reason for the first part is so that a power surge (eg, lightning strike) doesn't fry all copies simply because they were left attached. The second part is because not all home events are 100% catastrphic, so some physical separation distance is better than no separation distance. BTW, after one boxes the drive, put the boxed drive into something like a ziplock bag ... include an anti-dessicant if you want too ... as these are a cheap/easy way to add some resistance to water, smoke ...and bugs... damage risks. -hh |
#9
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Backup Advice wanted
In article , Mayayana
wrote: | I would go with a disk image including installed software. | Then put *all* data on other drives. The data and the OS | + software is like the tralier and the tractor. If the tractor | (C drive) dies you can attach a new one and be on your way. | There's no reason to risk the cargo. | | there is not a clean separation and restoring everything is much easier | than piecemealing it. There are probably important distinctions here for Mac vs Windows. not really other than it's much easier to do on macs. I've been doing disk imaging for years and have no trouble making a "clean separation" between OS and data. But one does need to know where important data is and how to back it up. That can require some research on Windows. why bother? clone the whole drive and be done with it. if disaster strikes, swap in the clone. done. why make things harder than they need to be? incremental snapshots of only the files that change is also useful, which protects against a different failure mode than a clone. both are good. Generally any folders/files that one didn't directly create oneself are either in the Documents folder or in the personal App Data folder. I don't know how it works on Macs. Maybe what you say is true for you if there's no realistic way to find your data on a Mac. there you go again with moronic anti-mac babble. of course people can find their data on macs. what kind of idiotic statement is that? but even if the user couldn't, the backup app can. all that matters is if the backup drive can replace the dead drive. On Windows, at least, once one knows what needs to be backed up, and how to do it, the disk image system works well. everything needs to be backed up. splitting system and data is a waste of time. I think it's important to distinguish between disk imaging and backup imaging. What many people are doing, what might be called backup imaging, is incremental and/or periodic backups of their C drive. That's like Windows System Restore. It developed as a popular, non-techy substitute to disk imaging. That's OK if you don't want to get into learning the technical aspects of making disk images and backing up data separately, but essentially backup imaging is a clunky method for people who don't want to deal with technical issues. (I don't even have Windows System Restore enabled. With disk imaging it would just be a waste of space.) why should someone be burdened with technical issues? and your silly distinctions are just that, silly. clones and incremental snapshots are both useful and protect against different failures. anyway, use good backup app and let it take care of the details. why make things harder than they need to be? Either way, it still comes down to the same thing: You can do whatever you like for backup so long as it works for you and it passes the basic backup test: yes. If your computer is cooked today by an electrical surge, are you OK? If your house burns down today, are you OK? i probably won't be ok if my house burns down since i won't have a house anymore. however, the data on my computers will survive. OK means having a copy of your OS, all of your software, and all of your data, that you can easily restore to functionality. which means having a clone of the drive which can be attached to a replacement computer. there's no need to separate it into parts and then piece it all back together. on a mac, if the internal drive fails, you can simply boot off a backup clone and continue working (or swap it). downtime is nothing more than plugging in the backup drive and booting from it. how well does windows boot off an external drive? good luck on that. however, you'd best have additional backups if you're going to turn a backup drive into a main drive. With disk imaging, using Windows, I only need an image and my backup data. I can then install the image to a new machine if necessary and all of my software is there. you only need one image of all your data, not split into pieces, and multiple copies in multiple places. If you don't have that then you'll need backup copies of your software install disks, product keys, etc. And all of those need to be also backed up offsite by copying the install disks and writing any necessary activation codes on those disks. that's why it's easiest to clone the whole drive. when disaster strikes, reboot off the clone or swap it. done. With Macs, since you can't just buy or build a cheap box to reinstall on, I guess you'll have to just buy a new Mac if yours is cooked or stolen. if your computer is destroyed, you're going to have to buy a new computer one way or the other, whether it's in kit form or already assembled. most people don't want to build computers or anything else from parts, so they buy the assembled versions. when's the last time you saw someone build a tv from parts? or a car? why only computers? and if the computer you had was not cheap, why would you want to replace it with a cheap box? And I have no idea whether you can actually make disk images of your Mac system with programs like Photoshop and all other software already installed, to be restored back to disk in the future. of course you can. you're demonstrating your ignorance again. not only can macs use disk images but they can do much more with them than windows can. macs have been using disk images since the floppy days. mac software is often distributed on a disk image, which is a 'virtual cd'. disk images on a mac can also be bundles (multiple bands rather than one monolithic file), sparse and/or encrypted. they can also be any of a number of file systems. it's quite common to have an encrypted disk image of private data on a hard drive, such as financial information. any time the user wants to access it, they double-click the image, provide the password and it mounts as another drive, at which point the user can interact with their data. unmount it when done and it's inaccessible without a password. (Photoshop may no longer be relevant if you're using Adobe's cloud system, but I assume most everyone still has software that gets installed on dosk from an install CD or DVD.) adobe's cloud system does not run from the cloud. you continue to demonstrate your ignorance. adobe's cloud system is a normal install like any other app, but the app pings adobe every month or so. That may be another factor in favor of your approach, for people on Macs: There's no point having disk images if you can't use them. and you continue to demonstrate your ignorance even further. For people on Windows that's not a problem. The only obstacle for Windows disk imaging is possible technical challenges in making images, restoring them, restoring them to new hardware with a different motherboard, etc. on a mac, there are no technical challenges. it's a couple of clicks. that makes your rant rather silly. | I like to disk image (using BootIt), then back up data, | email, etc periodically. That's all on 2 different disks that | are mostly redundant. I also write the backup to CD, then I | occasionally also store those CDs elsewhere. I wouldn't | trust anything to just being on local hard disks. | | true but cds are a poor choice because of the hassles, potential bit | rot and very small size. | | i have single files that need a dozen cds just for one file. | at least use dvd. You're making all sorts of assumptions that are not valid. they're valid assumptions. First, I've never failed to retrieve data on a disk. yet. everything is susceptible to failure. Second, I make redundant copies and replace them occasionally, just in case. Third, *I don't need DVDs for my basic backup*. My OS/software disk image fits on a CD. My periodic, recent-files backup also fits on a CD. I then use DVDs for graphics, photos, large data files, etc -- large amounts of data that I want to keep but which don't change. you obviously don't have many files or very big files. as i said i have *single* files that would take up a dozen cds. that would fit on *one* dual-layer dvd. but even that's a pain in the ass. who wants to have stacks of dvds? terabyte drives are $50 or so. I'm distinguishing between permanent, large scale backup (Windows service packs, old photos, large software installers, videos I want to keep) and recent backup (email, work docs, program data, and any other personal/business/system files that might be handy to have on recent backup). Again, it might not be your chosen method, and it may or may not be the best choice for PeterN, but it's worked well for me. It's also the method I use for several friends whose PCs I manage. what works for you is the most complicated way possible. |
#10
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Backup Advice wanted
Hi Peter,
For various reasons including a bad sector issue with one of my current backup drives, I am installing a new primary backup drive. It is a Seagate 4T, not a mirror. I have decided on Acronis for my BU software, as it makes incremental images of my C drive, and will also make incremental BUs of the Data Drive. My current set up is all programs plus all data, except photo images are on my C drive. All photo images are on an external USB 3 drive, which is about 75% full. (2T) I will soon replace the external 2T with a high capacity internal. I use "Macrium Reflect" to backup my Windows computer. I have it scheduled to make a complete image backup of the hard drive every night. Image backups work best because you don't always know where programs save data, and an image backup lets you quickly restore to a new drive if you have a total system failure (without having to reinstall all your programs and reconfigure your settings). I prefer to make full backups instead of incremental. It takes a bit longer, but occurs while I am sleeping so that is not an issue. I backup to an external USB hard drive I keep attached to my computer. I keep two nights worth of backups on that hard drive. About once a month, I swap that hard drive with a second hard drive I keep in the safe deposit box at the bank. Swapping drives ensures the mechanical parts don't stick from not being used, and keeps the secondary backup fairly up to date. The local hard drive lets me quickly recover from common errors like accidentally deleting a file or something. The duplicate drive at the bank gives me protection from major disasters like power surges, fires, floods, theft, etc. Periodically, I also burn BluRay data discs of important personal data like photos, videos, and music. Of course, if a file is corrupted on your main drive, it could potentially migrate through all of your backups too. Eventually you would no longer have a good file to recover. So, I use "MD5 File Hasher" to verify the validity of my important data files (old photos, home movies, documents, etc.). This alerts me if a file has been modified (virus, bad sector, etc.) so I can recover a good copy from one of the backups. Good luck, Anthony Watson www.mountainsoftware.com www.watsondiy.com |
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