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The disappearance of darkness



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 7th 13, 02:04 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Me
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Posts: 470
Default The disappearance of darkness

An interesting interview on Radio New Zealand this morning, with Robert
Burley:
Toronto-based photographer whose book The Disappearance of Darkness:
Photography at the End of the Analogue Era chronicles the rapid speed at
which film and the huge factories that produced it have almost vanished.
Link to MP3 file:
http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/ntn/ntn...burley-048.mp3
  #2  
Old May 7th 13, 08:50 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Me
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Posts: 470
Default The disappearance of darkness

On 7/05/2013 5:06 p.m., RichA wrote:
On May 6, 9:04 pm, Me wrote:
An interesting interview on Radio New Zealand this morning, with Robert
Burley:
Toronto-based photographer whose book The Disappearance of Darkness:
Photography at the End of the Analogue Era chronicles the rapid speed at
which film and the huge factories that produced it have almost vanished.
Link to MP3 file:http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/ntn/ntn...ure_guest_-_ro...


Film is destined for a small but enthusiastic audience of geeky niche
players, just like vinyl. Now, vinyl though still a fraction of sales
of CD's and electronic downloads is growing, but represents only about
a $70M market in the U.S. Can the film producers (who would also have
to offer processing or production of chemicals to do it) make a
business of film, whats left of it and can they survive while film
continues to fall further?
Film is where vinyl was around 1985, still dying before its slow rise
again.

I think that was discussed in the podcast. It's relatively inexpensive
to set up to press vinyl records.
Not so to set up to produce and process photographic film (except
monochrome). When the market was massive - there were only a few players
in that game.
  #3  
Old May 7th 13, 02:02 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
R. Mark Clayton
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Posts: 334
Default The disappearance of darkness


"RichA" wrote in message
...
On May 6, 9:04 pm, Me wrote:
An interesting interview on Radio New Zealand this morning, with Robert
Burley:
Toronto-based photographer whose book The Disappearance of Darkness:
Photography at the End of the Analogue Era chronicles the rapid speed at
which film and the huge factories that produced it have almost vanished.
Link to MP3
file:http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/ntn/ntn...ure_guest_-_ro...


Film is destined for a small but enthusiastic audience of geeky niche
players, just like vinyl. Now, vinyl though still a fraction of sales
of CD's and electronic downloads is growing, but represents only about
a $70M market in the U.S. Can the film producers (who would also have
to offer processing or production of chemicals to do it) make a
business of film, whats left of it and can they survive while film
continues to fall further?
Film is where vinyl was around 1985, still dying before its slow rise
again.

Fair analogy, however at least with a vinyl record you have something that
is scarcely less convenient than a CD or download.

Film on the other hand : -

Is expensive to buy and process. The marginal cost of digital is nil.
The results can't be seen at the time of filming (other than in hyper
expensive 70mm movie cameras which video at the same time), but takes a
while to come back - digital can be viewed immediately and distributed for
free.
Is limited to tens of shots per reel. You can get thousands on a micro SD
card.
IIRC the resolution of 35mm film is about 12Mp (the same as my phone).
Current digital resolutions exceed this in a smaller form factor, so in
future film cameras will be seen a big and cumbersome.

There might be a bit of nostalgia for vinyl records and even some misplaces
preference for valve amps, but I doubt many other than Kodak will mourn the
passing of wet film.


  #4  
Old May 7th 13, 09:25 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Me
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Posts: 470
Default The disappearance of darkness

On 8/05/2013 1:02 a.m., R. Mark Clayton wrote:


There might be a bit of nostalgia for vinyl records and even some misplaces
preference for valve amps, but I doubt many other than Kodak will mourn the
passing of wet film.


Some of the preference for valve amps isn't misplaced. They're still
the standard for some instrument amplification (guitars).
There's also a parallel there with film/digital photography, as digital
sond processing is used in sound-processing in so-called "modelling
amps" (solid state) to replicate the "tone" (non-linear response) of
valve amps. It's a bit like using a "velvia" filter in photoshop etc,
to replicate the look of film.

  #5  
Old May 7th 13, 09:36 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default The disappearance of darkness

In article , Me
wrote:

There might be a bit of nostalgia for vinyl records and even some misplaces
preference for valve amps, but I doubt many other than Kodak will mourn the
passing of wet film.

Some of the preference for valve amps isn't misplaced. They're still
the standard for some instrument amplification (guitars).
There's also a parallel there with film/digital photography, as digital
sond processing is used in sound-processing in so-called "modelling
amps" (solid state) to replicate the "tone" (non-linear response) of
valve amps. It's a bit like using a "velvia" filter in photoshop etc,
to replicate the look of film.


add distortion for that 'warm tube sound'.

add grain/noise for that 'film look'. increase saturation for velvia.

those who want accuracy don't do either.
  #6  
Old May 7th 13, 09:42 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Alan Browne
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Posts: 12,640
Default The disappearance of darkness

On 2013.05.07 16:25 , Me wrote:
On 8/05/2013 1:02 a.m., R. Mark Clayton wrote:


There might be a bit of nostalgia for vinyl records and even some
misplaces
preference for valve amps, but I doubt many other than Kodak will
mourn the
passing of wet film.


Some of the preference for valve amps isn't misplaced. They're still
the standard for some instrument amplification (guitars).
There's also a parallel there with film/digital photography, as digital
sond processing is used in sound-processing in so-called "modelling
amps" (solid state) to replicate the "tone" (non-linear response) of
valve amps. It's a bit like using a "velvia" filter in photoshop etc,
to replicate the look of film.



The sole advantage tube amps have over transistors is the continuous
smooth transition of -ve to +ve voltages through the signal range
whereas transistors have a discontinuity near 0 volts (for both the
"push" transistor (+ve side) and "pull" (-ve side) of the output in a
class B amplifier).

That discontinuity in transistor based circuits is audible to about
1/1000th of a percent of listeners. IOW, even "audiophiles" cough
with the best trained ears would fail to pick it out in an ABX test.

Anything related to the "tone" can be done in analog or digital circuits
- more so in processing.


--
"A Canadian is someone who knows how to have sex in a canoe."
-Pierre Berton
  #7  
Old May 7th 13, 09:51 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default The disappearance of darkness

In article , Alan Browne
wrote:

The sole advantage tube amps have over transistors is the continuous
smooth transition of -ve to +ve voltages through the signal range
whereas transistors have a discontinuity near 0 volts (for both the
"push" transistor (+ve side) and "pull" (-ve side) of the output in a
class B amplifier).


which can be done with a transistor amp but is almost never done.

another factor is the characteristics of the distortion. tube amps are
less harsh, but who runs their amps where they continually distort?

under normal conditions, there is no difference that anyone can hear.

That discontinuity in transistor based circuits is audible to about
1/1000th of a percent of listeners. IOW, even "audiophiles" cough
with the best trained ears would fail to pick it out in an ABX test.


probably less than that.

Anything related to the "tone" can be done in analog or digital circuits
- more so in processing.


yep.
  #8  
Old May 8th 13, 12:59 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
PeterN[_3_]
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Posts: 703
Default The disappearance of darkness

On 5/7/2013 4:36 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Me
wrote:

There might be a bit of nostalgia for vinyl records and even some misplaces
preference for valve amps, but I doubt many other than Kodak will mourn the
passing of wet film.

Some of the preference for valve amps isn't misplaced. They're still
the standard for some instrument amplification (guitars).
There's also a parallel there with film/digital photography, as digital
sond processing is used in sound-processing in so-called "modelling
amps" (solid state) to replicate the "tone" (non-linear response) of
valve amps. It's a bit like using a "velvia" filter in photoshop etc,
to replicate the look of film.


add distortion for that 'warm tube sound'.

add grain/noise for that 'film look'. increase saturation for velvia.

those who want accuracy don't do either.


And those who want art, may do either, neither or both. they may also
use tons of filters in any of millions of combinations.

--
PeterN
  #9  
Old May 8th 13, 01:11 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Doug McDonald[_8_]
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Posts: 20
Default The disappearance of darkness

On 5/7/2013 3:42 PM, Alan Browne wrote:

The sole advantage tube amps have over transistors is the continuous
smooth transition of -ve to +ve voltages through the signal range
whereas transistors have a discontinuity near 0 volts (for both the
"push" transistor (+ve side) and "pull" (-ve side) of the output in a
class B amplifier).

That discontinuity in transistor based circuits is audible to about
1/1000th of a percent of listeners.

Uh ... class A versus class B has NOTHING to do with tube versus solid
state.

Nothing. Zero.

In either case NO modern circuit comes even close to class B.

Doug McDonald

  #10  
Old May 8th 13, 03:43 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Me
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Posts: 470
Default The disappearance of darkness

On 8/05/2013 8:51 a.m., nospam wrote:


another factor is the characteristics of the distortion. tube amps are
less harsh, but who runs their amps where they continually distort?

Many electric guitarists - it's probably the rule rather than the
exception for other than acoustic, some jazz/blues, and slide guitar.
There are a handful of guitarists who perform using solid state amps,
and even then they're very particular about which SS amp - I think BB
King is one, but there are a few others.

 




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