What does 110 frames at 10fps sound like?

Mark² wrote:

But this means you have to rely on the LCD for manual focus...which is
woefully inadequate, especially for critical work. There just aren't enough
pixels to really see.

Why not have a dual focusing system: when using the LCD for framing, the
camera is autofocusing using some (local or global) characteristic of
the image on the sensor, and when framing through the viewfinder,
classical SLR focusing is used. Implementing this would just require
more integrated electronics, nothing mechanical.

Paul Furman wrote:
223rem wrote:

Mark² wrote:

About 35 seconds long...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHoh2...elated&search=

Yipe.


The mirror is locked throughout and what we hear is the shutter,
correct?

I thought I also read in one of those lists that it has 'quiet mode'
which sounds like a way to shoot without mirror slap (or shutter
noise?).

The way they accomplish this noise reduction is this:

Normally, they use a magnet to release the mirror, and the spring-driven
motion slaps the mirror back into place. During "silent mode" the mirror is
put down slowly (after the shot) using a low-voltage control of the
motor...so you avoid the slap. After you're through shooting in this mode,
you have full control over when the cocking noise of the mirror occurs,
since it actually waits until you change modes to make the cocking "noise."
If you're standing near a bride...a golfer...or a President at a quiet,
critical moment...this mode could mean the difference between taking a shot
with...or without either getting kicked out, or at least getting an evil
scowl from Tiger Woods.


--
Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at:
www.pbase.com/markuson

223rem wrote:
Mark² wrote:

But this means you have to rely on the LCD for manual focus...which
is woefully inadequate, especially for critical work. There just
aren't enough pixels to really see.

Why not have a dual focusing system: when using the LCD for framing,
the camera is autofocusing using some (local or global)
characteristic of the image on the sensor, and when framing through
the viewfinder, classical SLR focusing is used. Implementing this
would just require more integrated electronics, nothing mechanical.

I don't know the answer, but I'd wager they've determined that at this
point, it would require too many compromises. Could it be done? Sure. I
just suspect it wouldn't cut muster with serious photo folks.

--
Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at:
www.pbase.com/markuson

Mark² wrote:
timeOday wrote:
Mark² wrote:
Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Mark² wrote:

About 35 seconds long...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHoh2...elated&search=

Yipe.
I think doing this with an SLR with mirror is stupid. It would be
more effective and useful
if it was a live preview with electronic shutter. Kind of like a
video camera with 10mp.
Then does that mean, in your opinion, that 5fps with mirror is also
stupid? -Like the 30D or Nikon D200? Or how about the D1
series...or 1 series at 8.5fps?

There is no substitute for an optical viewfinder when it comes to
fast action.
-At least not yet. No EVF made to date is delay-free, and the most
critical time you NEED zero viewing delay is in fast-moving
action. -That's why an EVF would not be helpful here.

So how do people manage to shoot *video* of fast action?

Oh geez... Apples to oranges.

How so?

timeOday wrote:
Mark² wrote:
timeOday wrote:
Mark² wrote:
Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Mark² wrote:

About 35 seconds long...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHoh2...elated&search=

Yipe.
I think doing this with an SLR with mirror is stupid. It would be
more effective and useful
if it was a live preview with electronic shutter. Kind of like a
video camera with 10mp.
Then does that mean, in your opinion, that 5fps with mirror is also
stupid? -Like the 30D or Nikon D200? Or how about the D1
series...or 1 series at 8.5fps?

There is no substitute for an optical viewfinder when it comes to
fast action.
-At least not yet. No EVF made to date is delay-free, and the
most critical time you NEED zero viewing delay is in fast-moving
action. -That's why an EVF would not be helpful here.

So how do people manage to shoot *video* of fast action?

Oh geez... Apples to oranges.

The requirements of clarity, sharpness, and resolution in video are MILES
lower than for still images. Even the so-called high-def video's
definition/resolution/data would equate to only a relatively rudimentary
sensor on a still camera.
--
Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at:
www.pbase.com/markuson

On Feb 25, 8:35 pm, "Mark²" mjmorgan(lowest even number
wrote:

If you're standing near a bride...a golfer...or a President at a quiet,
critical moment...this mode could mean the difference between taking a shot
with...or without either getting kicked out, or at least getting an evil
scowl from Tiger Woods.


Been there, done that.
Trust me, Tiger isn't a real big fan of the Fabulous EOS-1V.

Annika1980 wrote:
On Feb 25, 8:35 pm, "Mark²" mjmorgan(lowest even number
wrote:

If you're standing near a bride...a golfer...or a President at a
quiet, critical moment...this mode could mean the difference between
taking a shot with...or without either getting kicked out, or at
least getting an evil scowl from Tiger Woods.


Been there, done that.
Trust me, Tiger isn't a real big fan of the Fabulous EOS-1V.

Ya, I was thinking of your example there...
As they say, "Silent mode is golden..."

--
Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at:
www.pbase.com/markuson

On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 17:46:00 -0800, "Mark²" mjmorgan(lowest even
number wrote:

Why not have a dual focusing system: when using the LCD for framing,
the camera is autofocusing using some (local or global)
characteristic of the image on the sensor, and when framing through
the viewfinder, classical SLR focusing is used. Implementing this
would just require more integrated electronics, nothing mechanical.

I don't know the answer, but I'd wager they've determined that at this
point, it would require too many compromises. Could it be done? Sure. I
just suspect it wouldn't cut muster with serious photo folks.

I believe that others have said that when the camera's image
sensor is used for focusing, a small amount of time has to be wasted
while the sensor is blanked/flushed prior to being ready to actually
capture the image. This is one of the things that contributes to
DSLRs being more responsive than P&S cameras, or so we've been told.

Mark² wrote:
Gary Eickmeier wrote:

Mark² wrote:


About 35 seconds long...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHoh2...elated&search=

Yipe.

I think doing this with an SLR with mirror is stupid. It would be more
effective and useful
if it was a live preview with electronic shutter. Kind of like a video
camera with 10mp.


Then does that mean, in your opinion, that 5fps with mirror is also stupid?
-Like the 30D or Nikon D200? Or how about the D1 series...or 1 series at
8.5fps?

There is no substitute for an optical viewfinder when it comes to fast
action.
-At least not yet. No EVF made to date is delay-free, and the most
critical time you NEED zero viewing delay is in fast-moving action. -That's
why an EVF would not be helpful here.

OK, in what situations would you think the sound of a 10fps
mirror-flapper wouldn't be intrusive and obnoxious? Might be all right
if you have your own perch at an outdoor event, but very little else.

And what would you see thru an optical viewfinder at that frame rate?
Wouldn't that eliminate the advantage of the SLR approach?

All live view cameras have the delay? Does the Oly 300 have the delay?
I'm also thinking of the Oly E20, which uses no mirror for the SLR
viewfinder.

Gary Eickmeier

Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Mark² wrote:
Gary Eickmeier wrote:

Mark² wrote:


About 35 seconds long...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHoh2...elated&search=

Yipe.

I think doing this with an SLR with mirror is stupid. It would be
more effective and useful
if it was a live preview with electronic shutter. Kind of like a
video camera with 10mp.


Then does that mean, in your opinion, that 5fps with mirror is also
stupid? -Like the 30D or Nikon D200? Or how about the D1
series...or 1 series at 8.5fps?

There is no substitute for an optical viewfinder when it comes to
fast action.
-At least not yet. No EVF made to date is delay-free, and the most
critical time you NEED zero viewing delay is in fast-moving
action. -That's why an EVF would not be helpful here.

OK, in what situations would you think the sound of a 10fps
mirror-flapper wouldn't be intrusive and obnoxious? Might be all right
if you have your own perch at an outdoor event, but very little else.

Out in the wild, animals tend to notice your presence long before the sound
of your shutter would have a chance to bother them. In the years that I've
photographed wildlife, I have yet to see a single time when the sound of my
shutter made any significant difference to the subject.ny wild creature.
And for that matter, it's not really much louder than 3 or 5 or 8fps...just
a more steady sound. Think of it as a cricket. They can chirp quickly or
slowly, but their chirping is about equally annoying, regardless.

If they're close enough to me for my shutter to matter...then *I* am close
enough to them that they care far more about my person...than teh sound fo
my shutter.

And what would you see thru an optical viewfinder at that frame rate?
Wouldn't that eliminate the advantage of the SLR approach?

Just about the same as what you see at 6 or 7 (which is plenty to keep
tracking a flying bird, or a running athelete)...maybe even more,
considering that they've reduced black-out times since I bought my 7fps EOS
3 in 1998 or so.

All live view cameras have the delay? Does the Oly 300 have the delay?
I'm also thinking of the Oly E20, which uses no mirror for the SLR
viewfinder.

By delay, I mean the refresh/sampling rate on the LCD. When it comes to
keeping up with action reality in 100% real time, then no. None of them do,
and even those that come very close don'thave a refresh rate fast enough to
catch split-second timing, or a clarity fine enough to judge manual focus.
If you want to catch the ball as it comes off the bat, you can try to use
your non-viewfinder eye to keep track, but its nice to actually be able to
see it in the viewfinder, too. When you're talking about small fractions of
a second, then even small EVF delays are a problem.

Or...suppose you're relying on EVF, and you turn your camera from a dark
scene--quickly to a very bright scene. Most EVFs will take FAR longer to
readjust brightness than your eye can (through an optical), so you end up
looking at a blown out screen until it adjusts. If you're folowing a player
or motorcycle or animal/bird as they're traveling from dark to light, or the
reverse of that, you run into problems. The EVF will adjust, but not
necessarily in time to catch the shot, and even if it does, chances are
you'll become at least a little disoriented by the huge swings.

-If you've got a digital camera on hand, this is easy to test. Point it
toward a fairly bright lamp, and then point it toward a part of the room in
shadow. See it? That's too slow.

Mark
--
Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at:
www.pbase.com/markuson