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Seeking recommendation for Laptop (Windows) suitable for photography



 
 
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  #41  
Old October 12th 12, 05:27 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
ray
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Posts: 2,278
Default Seeking recommendation for Laptop (Windows) suitable forphotography

On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 08:48:26 -0700, Whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, October 12, 2012 4:02:02 PM UTC+1, ray wrote:
On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 03:22:46 -0700, Whisky-dave wrote:



On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 4:22:01 PM UTC+1, ray wrote:


On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 03:24:27 -0700, Whisky-dave wrote:








On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 9:18:37 PM UTC+1, nospam wrote:




In article , ray








wrote:
















Yeah, whatever. The point is that you don't have to run the
MAC


OS




on








the MAC computer.
















why buy a mac, if not to run mac os?
















In this particular case, because the hardware (monitor in


particular)




is








reputed to be 'the best'.
















windows apps aren't going to take advantage of the retina
display,


so








buying a macbook retina solely to install windows is actually


stupid.








I'd agree with that,
























Personally, I don't use MAC or MS.
















your loss.
















No, my gain.
















there is no gain in cutting off significant amounts of useful


software.








Agreed again, and on Macs you can run Mac OS X, windows and linux
you




can even have windows and Mac OS X running at the same time using
the




same processor. With a PC you can't, with a PC you can't run Mac
OS X




only linux and windows.








I'll be sure to tell that to my friend who DOES that (run MAC OS/X
on


an




MS machine).




Perhaps you should ask you friend what MS machine he is running it
on,


as far as I know MS don;t make PCs they only hardware they make is
the


Xbox and the zune.






Most retail computers come with MS pre-installed.


Every Mac comes with Mac OS X pre-installed too.




For me that makes Macs a better choice for those that might want
to,




whereas my brother only wants to run a tiger woods golf gamne so
I'm




advising him to buy almost any PC.








If 'more restrictive' licensing is your criteria, then I guess that


fits.




When I buy my OS X I can install it on virtually all my home
computers


at NO extra cost. Fopr Under £20 I';ve installed it on the two
computers


I want to npow how many copies of windows 7 and how much would they
cost


me to install W7 each computer, I need two copies don;t I at over
£100


for the cheapest version. And why have a restricted license via
differnt


versions of W7?




MS licenses are genrally far more retrictive, any mac app I buy I can


install on all my home machines at no extra cost, now could you do
that


at home with MS Word, legally of course.




The MAC EULA seems to restrict one to apple hardware.


No problem, MS limits you to PC hardware. In fact IO can;t use the
version of word on my PC at work at home. Well I could a few years ago
maybe they have change3d teh license agreement, But I still can;'t
install the PC version of word on the MAc OS so yes MS are restriction
that too.

My brother is buiying tiger woods golf and that comes on 1 disc he can
insatll it on Mac Or PC, but you can;t do thaqt with Office can you ?
Can you install it on both ?


You can certainly install OpenOffice or LibreOffice on as many machines
as you want.





Please don't preach to me about MS restrictions - I don't use it.


Then why defend it.


I'm not defending anything. I'm merely pointing out that MAC OS (by the
MAC EULA) is only to be installed on macintosh hardware. Other operating
systems have no such restriction that I'm aware of.

Personally, I don't see much point in spending hundreds of dollars every
time you want to upgrade the OS or to buy applications to make your
computer useable for whatever purposes you have in mind.
  #42  
Old October 12th 12, 05:55 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
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Posts: 16,487
Default Seeking recommendation for Laptop (Windows) suitable for photography

On 2012-10-12 09:27:46 -0700, ray said:

On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 08:48:26 -0700, Whisky-dave wrote:

Le Snip

No problem, MS limits you to PC hardware. In fact IO can;t use the
version of word on my PC at work at home. Well I could a few years ago
maybe they have change3d teh license agreement, But I still can;'t
install the PC version of word on the MAc OS so yes MS are restriction
that too.

My brother is buiying tiger woods golf and that comes on 1 disc he can
insatll it on Mac Or PC, but you can;t do thaqt with Office can you ?
Can you install it on both ?


You can certainly install OpenOffice or LibreOffice on as many machines
as you want.


OpenOffice, LibreOffice, NeoOffice, etc. are not MS Office.

....and I have OpenOffice & NeoOffice installed on my Mac, and I have
used them. I also have Apple's "Pages", and I have used that.
I also have "MS Office: Mac X", running on OSX and "MS Office 2003"
running on XP SP3 in VMware Fusion, and while OpenOffice will give you
an "Office" suite, and while "Pages" gives you a WP, and as much as I
would love for them to replace the various versions of "MS Office" they
are poor substitutes.


Please don't preach to me about MS restrictions - I don't use it.


Then why defend it.


I'm not defending anything. I'm merely pointing out that MAC OS (by the
MAC EULA) is only to be installed on macintosh hardware. Other operating
systems have no such restriction that I'm aware of.


I still wonder why anybody would actually want to install OSX on
non-Apple hardware.

Personally, I don't see much point in spending hundreds of dollars every
time you want to upgrade the OS or to buy applications to make your
computer useable for whatever purposes you have in mind.


....and that is your choice.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #43  
Old October 12th 12, 06:20 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default Seeking recommendation for Laptop (Windows) suitable for photography

In article , David Taylor
wrote:

MS licenses are genrally far more retrictive, any mac app I buy I can
install on all my home machines at no extra cost, now could you do that at
home with MS Word, legally of course.


You might look at some of the "family" or "student" licences which
Microsoft offer. They are available for MS Office, I understand, and
possibly for Windows as well.

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/micros...2010-with-mcaf
ee-internet-security-2012-17666741-pdt.html


that's just 3 licenses, plus it's home and student, not ultimate.

apple's mountain lion is $20 for as many macs as you own. there is no
limit on number of machines nor are there dumbed down home versions.
$20 gets you *everything*.

http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/

Don't forget that for a limited period, Microsoft is offering Windows-8
upgrade licences for about £14, IIRC.


you can thank apple for that. if apple didn't offer mountain lion for
$20, microsoft wouldn't have cut their price either.

Oh, and you can get free "Office" syuites:

http://www.openoffice.org/
http://www.libreoffice.org/download

and run the same software on PC, Ma and Linux.

http://www.openoffice.org/download/other.html


they mostly work, but if you need full office compatibility, you need
the real thing.
  #44  
Old October 12th 12, 06:20 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default Seeking recommendation for Laptop (Windows) suitable for photography

In article , ray
wrote:

also, be sure to tell him he's in violation of the eula.

I believe he knows that. It is also true that copyright law gives you
the legal right to do that. So what's the final outcome?


copyright law does no such thing. where in the world did you come up
with that rubbish??


Obviously, until test cases are run through the system no one knows
exactly what is permitted and what is not. Here is one reference who
seems to disagree with you:

http://lowendmac.com/ed/fox/09ff/hac...-legality.html


that's not a reference, that's an opinion. he's not a lawyer, it was
written before psystar lost (so he was obviously wrong), plus his
*entire* argument falls apart with this:

This isn't like pirated music, where millions of dollars are being
"lost" and individuals may have pirated hundreds of songs. With a
Hackintosh, at most we are talking one copy per person.

it doesn't matter if it's one copy or hundreds. it's an infringement.

tell the record industry you only copied one song. see how well that
works out for you.

For me that makes Macs a better choice for those that might want
to, whereas my brother only wants to run a tiger woods golf gamne
so I'm advising him to buy almost any PC.

If 'more restrictive' licensing is your criteria, then I guess that
fits.

maybe his criteria is using software that does what he wants, and
that the 'more restrictive' licensing is not an issue.

what are these restrictions that you find to be a problem?

The restriction that apple EULA only wants you to run on their
specific, proprietary hardware.


all hardware is proprietary.

go design your own motherboard if you want non-proprietary hardware.
have fun.


Have your own way, but the MAC EULA limits your contractual use to
macintosh hardware.


so what? how does that affect your productivity?

what matters is does a computer do the tasks you need to do, and do
them well.

you must not own a car, because you are limited to buying parts from
the same car maker (other than generic stuff like spark plugs or oil
filters).

where are the third party ecus or body panels for a toyota? oh right,
there aren't any. how about swap an ecu from a ford into a toyota?
nope, that won't work either.
  #45  
Old October 12th 12, 06:20 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Seeking recommendation for Laptop (Windows) suitable for photography

In article , ray
wrote:

Please don't preach to me about MS restrictions - I don't use it.


Then why defend it.


I'm not defending anything. I'm merely pointing out that MAC OS (by the
MAC EULA) is only to be installed on macintosh hardware. Other operating
systems have no such restriction that I'm aware of.


so what?

people buy computers to do things, not swap parts.

Personally, I don't see much point in spending hundreds of dollars every
time you want to upgrade the OS or to buy applications to make your
computer useable for whatever purposes you have in mind.


hundreds of dollars? what are you talking about? mountain lion is $20
for an unlimited number of computers you own.

as for apps, what's your time worth? if a $100 app works better than a
free app and saves you time and does a better job, then you come out
ahead.
  #46  
Old October 12th 12, 06:20 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default Seeking recommendation for Laptop (Windows) suitable for photography

In article 2012101209550877923-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:

I'm not defending anything. I'm merely pointing out that MAC OS (by the
MAC EULA) is only to be installed on macintosh hardware. Other operating
systems have no such restriction that I'm aware of.


I still wonder why anybody would actually want to install OSX on
non-Apple hardware.


because they already have the non-apple hardware.

but what's happening is that when it comes time to replace that
non-apple hardware, people are buying macs instead. they get os x, and
they can continue to run their older windows software until that too is
updated with mac versions.
  #47  
Old October 12th 12, 08:02 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default Seeking recommendation for Laptop (Windows) suitable for photography

In article , Bruce
wrote:

OpenOffice, LibreOffice, NeoOffice, etc. are not MS Office.

...and I have OpenOffice & NeoOffice installed on my Mac, and I have
used them. I also have Apple's "Pages", and I have used that.
I also have "MS Office: Mac X", running on OSX and "MS Office 2003"
running on XP SP3 in VMware Fusion, and while OpenOffice will give you
an "Office" suite, and while "Pages" gives you a WP, and as much as I
would love for them to replace the various versions of "MS Office" they
are poor substitutes.


That argument can work both ways.


not really.

I have been using Open Office for the last four years but recently
purchased MS Office 2010. Having gotten thoroughly comfortable with
Open Office, I now find MS Office a poor substitute.


that just means you are comfortable with one because you learned it
first.

it says nothing about which one is better or does more or is less buggy.

I purchased MS Office because I am contracted to produce a manuscript
of between 90,000 - 105,000 words which I submit in sections to an
Editor who uses MS Office. I absent-mindedly started work in Open
Office 3.4.1 and saved my work in MS Word 97/XP/2000 format. The
manuscript is now about three quarters complete and I have had no
adverse comment from the Editor (plenty about the content, but none
about the application used to produce it).


as you found out, open office is a poor substitute for the real thing.

Similar comments apply to other "industry standard" software. For
example, I find it very amusing when Photoshop users criticise GIMP
2.0 for its clunky interface and long learning curve. I doubt it
would be possible to find a longer learning curve than that for
Photoshop and its interface appears designed to make using the
software more difficult than it needs to be.


nope. photoshop is designed by graphic artists, photographers and even
users. it's as easy as it gets.

also photoshop does a *lot* more than the gimp, so it will have a
longer learning curve to master all of it.

It is also worth
pointing out that GIMP is directed far more closely towards
photographers' needs than Photoshop.


absolute nonsense. the gimp still doesn't have adjustment layers,
non-destructive editing or high bit and it has limited colour
management. it's also very slow compared to photoshop.

it's not even close to being what a photographer needs. it's laughable
how poor a choice it really is.
  #48  
Old October 12th 12, 10:18 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
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Posts: 13,611
Default Seeking recommendation for Laptop (Windows) suitable for photography

On 11 Oct 2012 15:30:48 GMT, ray wrote:

On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 11:39:21 -0400, nospam wrote:

In article , ray
wrote:

there is no gain in cutting off significant amounts of useful
software.

Agreed again, and on Macs you can run Mac OS X, windows and linux you
can even have windows and Mac OS X running at the same time using the
same processor. With a PC you can't, with a PC you can't run Mac OS X
only linux and windows.

I'll be sure to tell that to my friend who DOES that (run MAC OS/X on
an MS machine).


he had to spend quite a bit of time to get it to work, time that could
be better spent doing useful work. worse, he has to continue to spend
time maintaining it, since updates frequently break the mods needed to
get it to work in the first place.


Doesn't really require much time at all.


also, be sure to tell him he's in violation of the eula.


I believe he knows that. It is also true that copyright law gives you the
legal right to do that. So what's the final outcome?


Poppycock. At the most copyright law says you are not infringing
copyright. But this has _nothing_ to do with the terms of the EULA.
The EULA in effect says you are allowed to install your copy only on
Macs. From this point of view it is saying nothing about copyright.


and by the way, microsoft doesn't make machines, they only make an
operating system.


Absolutely, but MOST computers come with MS pre-installed.


For me that makes Macs a better choice for those that might want to,
whereas my brother only wants to run a tiger woods golf gamne so I'm
advising him to buy almost any PC.

If 'more restrictive' licensing is your criteria, then I guess that
fits.


maybe his criteria is using software that does what he wants, and that
the 'more restrictive' licensing is not an issue.

what are these restrictions that you find to be a problem?


The restriction that apple EULA only wants you to run on their specific,
proprietary hardware.

--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #49  
Old October 12th 12, 10:22 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
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Posts: 13,611
Default Seeking recommendation for Laptop (Windows) suitable for photography

On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 10:20:27 -0700, nospam
wrote:

In article , ray
wrote:

also, be sure to tell him he's in violation of the eula.

I believe he knows that. It is also true that copyright law gives you
the legal right to do that. So what's the final outcome?

copyright law does no such thing. where in the world did you come up
with that rubbish??


Obviously, until test cases are run through the system no one knows
exactly what is permitted and what is not. Here is one reference who
seems to disagree with you:

http://lowendmac.com/ed/fox/09ff/hac...-legality.html


that's not a reference, that's an opinion. he's not a lawyer, it was
written before psystar lost (so he was obviously wrong), plus his
*entire* argument falls apart with this:

This isn't like pirated music, where millions of dollars are being
"lost" and individuals may have pirated hundreds of songs. With a
Hackintosh, at most we are talking one copy per person.

it doesn't matter if it's one copy or hundreds. it's an infringement.

tell the record industry you only copied one song. see how well that
works out for you.

For me that makes Macs a better choice for those that might want
to, whereas my brother only wants to run a tiger woods golf gamne
so I'm advising him to buy almost any PC.

If 'more restrictive' licensing is your criteria, then I guess that
fits.

maybe his criteria is using software that does what he wants, and
that the 'more restrictive' licensing is not an issue.

what are these restrictions that you find to be a problem?

The restriction that apple EULA only wants you to run on their
specific, proprietary hardware.

all hardware is proprietary.

go design your own motherboard if you want non-proprietary hardware.
have fun.


Have your own way, but the MAC EULA limits your contractual use to
macintosh hardware.


so what? how does that affect your productivity?

what matters is does a computer do the tasks you need to do, and do
them well.

you must not own a car, because you are limited to buying parts from
the same car maker (other than generic stuff like spark plugs or oil
filters).

where are the third party ecus or body panels for a toyota? oh right,
there aren't any. how about swap an ecu from a ford into a toyota?
nope, that won't work either.


For alternative Toyota ECUs, try looking at
http://www.streetbeatcustoms.com/Toy...ormance-Chips/
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #50  
Old October 13th 12, 12:14 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alan Browne
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Posts: 12,640
Default Seeking recommendation for Laptop (Windows) suitable for photography

On 2012.10.12 18:51 , tony cooper wrote:
On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 10:22:48 +1300, Eric Stevens


For alternative Toyota ECUs, try looking at
http://www.streetbeatcustoms.com/Toy...ormance-Chips/



Having been to Cuba (some years ago), I am no longer sure if there's
any reason a body panel of any kind can't be put on a car of any other
make. I saw a Chevrolet there with a Ford hood and a Buick trunk lid.
At least, I think it started as a Chevrolet.


Many 50's cars in Cuba have been converted to diesel as well under a
program between the Cuban government and (IIRC) Toyota. Cuba's own oil
is pretty heavy and fractions more economically to diesel than gasoline.
They import most of their oil from Venezuela (and are probably happy
Chavez won the election) and it is heavy oil as well.

--
"There were, unfortunately, no great principles on which parties
were divided – politics became a mere struggle for office."
-Sir John A. Macdonald

 




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