Workshop with Keith Lazelle

In article , Information
wrote:


... if the "crap" doesn't stop with the government and wealthy running
rough-shod over our planet

I wonder if, on the global scale, Mr. Info would be considered a
wealthy rough-shod runner ...

"Hasselblad: The camera of choice for the struggling masses."

the upcoming generations [of your descendents] are going to
experience a level misery in their existence ... Ethiopia [and] Sudan
[are a] preview life for Gray's Harbor ...

Might it be that Sudan/Ethiopia/Liberia/... are in the mess they
are because white men came to "Help these people see the light".

If to Gray's harbour Sudan does come, it will be through the agency of
well meaning [though foul meaning would be easier to deal with] people
taking on the "Environmentalists' Burden".

It seems if someone feels they have -the- answer it is a sure
sign they don't.

My guess is that you don't give a crap

Bad guess. I try and give a crap every day to replenish the
planet.

Dust to dust, ashes to ashes, crap to oil.

because you will be dead and gone anyway.

Now there's prophecy for you.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
Remove spaces etc. to reply: n o lindan at net com dot com
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

Randall Ainsworth wrote in message . ..
C) For anyone who has a negative word to say about loggers...it isn't the
loggers who created the problems we have with unemployment these days...it
was the un-enlightened and greedy management who sneakily took advantage of
the situation until folks realized there was a problem. These executives
are the ones who failed to maintain the jobs, not the environmentalists.

No, it was the greeners who put more value on spotted owls than
people...and it the end it wasn't about owls at all. It was an attack
on capitalism and the private ownership of land.

I think this misses the point. The spotted owl was the (legal)
mechanism through the ESA to stop the over logging of federal forests
and the wholesale shipment of logs to foreign nations bypassing local
mills. Most in the environmental community are for both sustained
logging and recreation activities. After all the national forests,
since private lands are not covered by laws, are for everyone and all
uses, not just logging. They're multi-use forests by mandate.
Wouldn't it be better to have them so generations of loggers have jobs
and still have the local income from recreation and tourists?

Considering that very little old growth exits outside of WA State
parks and National Parks, it seems the logging interests have had
their way for generations and are discovering they're trying to use
old techniques on a dwindling resource. Just look at the size of the
trees they're harvesting these days. What wrong with trying to save
the forests so future generations of loggers and mill workers have
jobs?

Besides the local timber businesses are fighting globalization of the
industry, including importing Canadian softwood and wood from South
American and Southeast Asia. Would you prefer it that the entire
Olympic Peninsula be logged leaving nothing, trees, animals or
anything except unemployment?

Also, the last I looked at a map, Quilicene may be part of the eastern
Olympic Peninsula, it's also part of the Puget Sound (Hood Canal).

--Scott--

Randall Ainsworth wrote in message . ..
C) For anyone who has a negative word to say about loggers...it isn't the
loggers who created the problems we have with unemployment these days...it
was the un-enlightened and greedy management who sneakily took advantage of
the situation until folks realized there was a problem. These executives
are the ones who failed to maintain the jobs, not the environmentalists.

No, it was the greeners who put more value on spotted owls than
people...and it the end it wasn't about owls at all. It was an attack
on capitalism and the private ownership of land.

I think this misses the point. The spotted owl was the (legal)
mechanism through the ESA to stop the over logging of federal forests
and the wholesale shipment of logs to foreign nations bypassing local
mills. Most in the environmental community are for both sustained
logging and recreation activities. After all the national forests,
since private lands are not covered by laws, are for everyone and all
uses, not just logging. They're multi-use forests by mandate.
Wouldn't it be better to have them so generations of loggers have jobs
and still have the local income from recreation and tourists?

Considering that very little old growth exits outside of WA State
parks and National Parks, it seems the logging interests have had
their way for generations and are discovering they're trying to use
old techniques on a dwindling resource. Just look at the size of the
trees they're harvesting these days. What wrong with trying to save
the forests so future generations of loggers and mill workers have
jobs?

Besides the local timber businesses are fighting globalization of the
industry, including importing Canadian softwood and wood from South
American and Southeast Asia. Would you prefer it that the entire
Olympic Peninsula be logged leaving nothing, trees, animals or
anything except unemployment?

Also, the last I looked at a map, Quilicene may be part of the eastern
Olympic Peninsula, it's also part of the Puget Sound (Hood Canal).

--Scott--

Michael Scarpitti wrote:
The Wogster wrote in message ...

Michael Scarpitti wrote:

"John" wrote in message m...


May I ask a civil question (because I really don't understand)?:

Why would ANYONE be against preserving the environment?



BECAUSE IT COSTS MONEY AND JOBS, DICKHEAD!

Why do factory jobs keep going oversees, dumbass? Environmental
regulations and unions.


Factory jobs moved overseas because companies found out, that they could
pay a worker in India or China $25 a day, rather then $25 an hour plus
$20 an hour worth of benefits, essentially to do a job that a chimpanzee
could accomplish.


W




This is true, but for the fact that the Chinese Communists essentially
create a slave market with artificially low wages this would not be
happening. This is historically unique, and I doubt it will last
forever.

Your right to a large extent, but it's a repeating mechanism that has
occured over and over again, right now you have cheap labour in India
and China, but Indian and Chinese labourers will start demanding higher
wages, as they want more and more stuff, which costs money. Think about
it, a labourer making digital cameras all day, will eventually want to
be able to buy one. As those labourers want more and more wages, and
safer working conditions, they will then want their own environment
improved so that they can use their new dogital cameras, within their
own country.

Communism is a good theoretical ideal, but people are people, so it has
been impossible to implement, because everybody wants to be able to
provide less, but get more then the next guy. Armies are needed to keep
it working, but eventually the people have so little hope, that death
becomes a release, not a threat, and then the army can't keep the system
working anymore, and either it collapses, or you start watering it
down. North Korea and China have been watering it down lately. Cuba
hasn't reached the hopeless state yet, but then 2/3rds of Cubans live in
Florida, eventually those people will want their own country back, and
that will probably happen once Fidel Castro has met his maker.

Industry needs to look at one issue, eventually there will be no cheap
labour markets, as we know them, then either we will use robots to do
the work, or start getting by with a lot less crap.

Paul

On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 06:21:10 -0700, Randall Ainsworth
wrote/replied to:

Well, you greeners go out there and hug some trees and have a real
fine time becoming one with nature. Just stay up there in the Seattle
area.

And you browners keep on guzzling all the gas and tossing your littler
out the window. I never thought I'd hear anyone actually proud of
being anti-nature. Do us all a favour and drop dead.


--
Jim Davis, Nature Photography
http://jimdavis.oberro.com/
Standard Poodles for fun
BMW motorcycle for pleasure

On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 06:21:10 -0700, Randall Ainsworth
wrote/replied to:

Well, you greeners go out there and hug some trees and have a real
fine time becoming one with nature. Just stay up there in the Seattle
area.

And you browners keep on guzzling all the gas and tossing your littler
out the window. I never thought I'd hear anyone actually proud of
being anti-nature. Do us all a favour and drop dead.


--
Jim Davis, Nature Photography
http://jimdavis.oberro.com/
Standard Poodles for fun
BMW motorcycle for pleasure

On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 13:32:25 GMT, "Nicholas O. Lindan"
wrote/replied to:

It is all Chicken Little and crying wolf. Folks like to create crisis
so they can run in circles, scream and shout. Gives importance to lives
of no importance, and that's bloody well all of us.

Oh really. How sad some people are in this world. Greed, what a
concept. You anti-greenies should just hop in your SUV and go to the
corner store. That should make you feel better about your
contribution. Cut ever last tree, pump every last gallon of oil, keep
on dumping your garbage you're too lazy to sort and recycle. Keep it
up and humans will disappear from the planet in a short time. Then we
won't have to worry about whether animals or people are more
important.

People are like a virus. They spread everywhere destroying all they
come into contact with. That's the old way. That way must change,
can't you see it?


--
Jim Davis, Nature Photography
http://jimdavis.oberro.com/
Standard Poodles for fun
BMW motorcycle for pleasure

On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 13:32:25 GMT, "Nicholas O. Lindan"
wrote/replied to:

It is all Chicken Little and crying wolf. Folks like to create crisis
so they can run in circles, scream and shout. Gives importance to lives
of no importance, and that's bloody well all of us.

Oh really. How sad some people are in this world. Greed, what a
concept. You anti-greenies should just hop in your SUV and go to the
corner store. That should make you feel better about your
contribution. Cut ever last tree, pump every last gallon of oil, keep
on dumping your garbage you're too lazy to sort and recycle. Keep it
up and humans will disappear from the planet in a short time. Then we
won't have to worry about whether animals or people are more
important.

People are like a virus. They spread everywhere destroying all they
come into contact with. That's the old way. That way must change,
can't you see it?


--
Jim Davis, Nature Photography
http://jimdavis.oberro.com/
Standard Poodles for fun
BMW motorcycle for pleasure

On 8 Aug 2004 19:30:49 -0700, (Michael
Scarpitti) wrote/replied to:

May I ask a civil question (because I really don't understand)?:

Why would ANYONE be against preserving the environment?


BECAUSE IT COSTS MONEY AND JOBS, DICKHEAD!

Why do factory jobs keep going oversees, dumbass? Environmental
regulations and unions

Oh no somebody lost their job clear cutting trees, oh boo hoo hoo.
Some rich person lost some money, boo hoo hoo. You sound angry. I
suppose we should just continue to rape the earth so that trailer scum
like you should have a job and continue to drive your SUV?


--
Jim Davis, Nature Photography
http://jimdavis.oberro.com/
Standard Poodles for fun
BMW motorcycle for pleasure

On 8 Aug 2004 19:30:49 -0700, (Michael
Scarpitti) wrote/replied to:

May I ask a civil question (because I really don't understand)?:

Why would ANYONE be against preserving the environment?


BECAUSE IT COSTS MONEY AND JOBS, DICKHEAD!

Why do factory jobs keep going oversees, dumbass? Environmental
regulations and unions

Oh no somebody lost their job clear cutting trees, oh boo hoo hoo.
Some rich person lost some money, boo hoo hoo. You sound angry. I
suppose we should just continue to rape the earth so that trailer scum
like you should have a job and continue to drive your SUV?


--
Jim Davis, Nature Photography
http://jimdavis.oberro.com/
Standard Poodles for fun
BMW motorcycle for pleasure