Insanely over-sharpened images

The finished product in CS2 looks fine, yet when published, the
image(s) tend to look like this:

http://www.pbase.com/sirchandestroy/image/64425933

Workflow:

1) NEF tweaks in RSP
2) 16 Bit TIFF in CS2
3) color/curve/saturation/xxxxx filters/whatever
4) sharpening - generally the generic filter-sharpen option (as in
this case); sometimes smart sharpen, sometimes unsharp mask

Anyway, in CS2 they look fine; when published as 800x600 8 bit JPEGs,
they look horrible. I have been trying out Adobe RGB II lately - could
this be part of the problem?

Thx,

B

Sorry - Posted to wrong group...

wrote:
The finished product in CS2 looks fine, yet when published, the
image(s) tend to look like this:

http://www.pbase.com/sirchandestroy/image/64425933

Workflow:

1) NEF tweaks in RSP
2) 16 Bit TIFF in CS2
3) color/curve/saturation/xxxxx filters/whatever
4) sharpening - generally the generic filter-sharpen option (as in
this case); sometimes smart sharpen, sometimes unsharp mask

Anyway, in CS2 they look fine; when published as 800x600 8 bit JPEGs,
they look horrible. I have been trying out Adobe RGB II lately - could
this be part of the problem?

Thx,

B

wrote:

Sorry - Posted to wrong group...

wrote:

The finished product in CS2 looks fine, yet when published, the

OTOH, if you ever get an answer, I'd be interested what it is. You never
have too much information.

no_name wrote:
wrote:

Sorry - Posted to wrong group...
wrote:

The finished product in CS2 looks fine, yet when published, the

OTOH, if you ever get an answer, I'd be interested what it
is. You never have too much information.

The OP graciously reposted to rec.photo.digital, and despite
considerable posting of gobble-dee-gook, the correct answers did
pop up. I was impressed with the OP's figuring out the specific
problem, while others pointed at the generalities involved.

The general problem is that sharpening should be done as the
absolute last step in manipulating the image, and particularly
it should be at the final size/resolution. Any resampling will
necessarily result is less than optimum results.

The specific problem the OP saw was that when posting to the
web, you are not there when the last bit of manipulation is
done! The web browser is very likely to resize the image, and
when it does so the results are unpredictable. Hence, for use
on the web, it is a good idea to do minimum sharpening and to
resize the image to approximately the *expected* display size
first. (An 8mp image is indeed wonderful, but if it is
displayed entirely on a 1024x768 screen it *obviously* is going
to be resampled for display, with significant affects on
sharpening done at the original size. It is far better to size
the image at 800x600 or less and have the server specify the
actual size, e.g., "width=800". That reduces the chances that a
browser will resample for display.)

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

"Floyd L. Davidson" wrote in message
...
no_name wrote:
wrote:

Sorry - Posted to wrong group...
wrote:

The finished product in CS2 looks fine, yet when published, the

OTOH, if you ever get an answer, I'd be interested what it
is. You never have too much information.

The OP graciously reposted to rec.photo.digital, and despite
considerable posting of gobble-dee-gook, the correct answers did
pop up. I was impressed with the OP's figuring out the specific
problem, while others pointed at the generalities involved.

The general problem is that sharpening should be done as the
absolute last step in manipulating the image, and particularly
it should be at the final size/resolution. Any resampling will
necessarily result is less than optimum results.

Yes, and I wish Photoshop would "warn" you when you have already sharpened
the image once....I am always forgetting, and resharpening it again after I
have made some other corrections.....You can backstep, but only
actively....I wish you could backstep passively, or just get a listing of
what you have done, so you'll know to not do it again.

William Graham wrote:
Yes, and I wish Photoshop would "warn" you when you have already sharpened
the image once....I am always forgetting, and resharpening it again after I
have made some other corrections.....You can backstep, but only
actively....I wish you could backstep passively, or just get a listing of
what you have done, so you'll know to not do it again.

Ah grasshopper, but you CAN have a detailed listing of all the changes
you've made to a file. Which version of Photoshop are you using?
Here's how to do it in CS2:

First go to your Photoshop Preferences (Edit / Preferences / General )
On the General tab, make sure the checkbox for History Log is checked.
Set the "Edit Log Items" setting to "Detailed."

After restarting Photoshop (to make it accept the new Preferences) you
can now view a detailed log of what you've done to each file by going
to "File / File Info / History."
Photoshop will now record the settings you use for each step of the
operation. This can be handy if you decide a few days later to go back
and make some minor changes to the file.

wrote:

As others have pointed out and as you now know, pbase wrecks havoc on
your photos when it compresses them. I always size mine the size I
want for web viewing and I never let pbase do it's destruction. Of
course, if someone chooses a setting less than "Original" the photos
will still be compressed.

Other good advice that has been mentioned, always sharpen last and
always convert to sRGB for web viewing. You can get some crazy results
if the pic is tagged with Adobe RGB or ProPhoto, for example.

"William Graham" wrote:
"Floyd L. Davidson" wrote:
The general problem is that sharpening should be done as the
absolute last step in manipulating the image, and particularly
it should be at the final size/resolution. Any resampling will
necessarily result is less than optimum results.

Yes, and I wish Photoshop would "warn" you when you have already sharpened
the image once....I am always forgetting, and resharpening it again after I
have made some other corrections.....You can backstep, but only
actively....I wish you could backstep passively, or just get a listing of
what you have done, so you'll know to not do it again.

I have a convention where I save a copy (with a distinctive
name) of an image when it has been "finished". That does *not*
include sharpening or sizing.

From that "finished" file any number of "final product" files
can then be generated. They are sized as appropriate for a
specific use, and the last step is sharpening before it is saved
with a distinctive name to indicate the file is a "final
product" that should never be changed in any way.

If that, for instance, is a file intended to make an 8x10 print,
and there is a call for a 16x20 print, the work starts one step
back, from the "finished" file, which is once again used to
generate a new "final product".

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

"Floyd L. Davidson" wrote in message
...
"William Graham" wrote:
"Floyd L. Davidson" wrote:
The general problem is that sharpening should be done as the
absolute last step in manipulating the image, and particularly
it should be at the final size/resolution. Any resampling will
necessarily result is less than optimum results.

Yes, and I wish Photoshop would "warn" you when you have already sharpened
the image once....I am always forgetting, and resharpening it again after
I
have made some other corrections.....You can backstep, but only
actively....I wish you could backstep passively, or just get a listing of
what you have done, so you'll know to not do it again.

I have a convention where I save a copy (with a distinctive
name) of an image when it has been "finished". That does *not*
include sharpening or sizing.

I need to do this, too, but I need to number my film frames and slides, and
then use that number in the names....I also need to start saving the primary
scans in something other than JPEG compressed format. Whenever I go back and
change anything I am resaving the compressed image which is supposed to be
bad for the image quality.


From that "finished" file any number of "final product" files
can then be generated. They are sized as appropriate for a
specific use, and the last step is sharpening before it is saved
with a distinctive name to indicate the file is a "final
product" that should never be changed in any way.

If that, for instance, is a file intended to make an 8x10 print,
and there is a call for a 16x20 print, the work starts one step
back, from the "finished" file, which is once again used to
generate a new "final product".

Yes.....My chief problem is organization.....I am not very well organized. I
don't print anything, but just view them on the computer screen. I should
save them in more detail, so others could print them in the future.

"Annika1980" wrote in message
oups.com...

William Graham wrote:
Yes, and I wish Photoshop would "warn" you when you have already
sharpened
the image once....I am always forgetting, and resharpening it again after
I
have made some other corrections.....You can backstep, but only
actively....I wish you could backstep passively, or just get a listing of
what you have done, so you'll know to not do it again.

Ah grasshopper, but you CAN have a detailed listing of all the changes
you've made to a file. Which version of Photoshop are you using?
Here's how to do it in CS2:

First go to your Photoshop Preferences (Edit / Preferences / General )
On the General tab, make sure the checkbox for History Log is checked.
Set the "Edit Log Items" setting to "Detailed."

After restarting Photoshop (to make it accept the new Preferences) you
can now view a detailed log of what you've done to each file by going
to "File / File Info / History."
Photoshop will now record the settings you use for each step of the
operation. This can be handy if you decide a few days later to go back
and make some minor changes to the file.

Unfortunately, I only have version 7, and your instructions don't work for
me....But there may be another way, so I will investigate it.