Russian FED-2 rangefinder

Roxy d'Urban wrote:
On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 23:48:01 +0000, Thom wrote:

The seller has just emailed me with all the details for me to pick it up
at our post office and he mentioned that you can only change shutter
speeds before you cock the shutter otherwise you could damage the shutter
curtain. What's that all about?


It is actually only a serious issue with the soviet leica inspired
cameras which have slow speeds. (This includes the Fed-3, Fed-4 and
Fed-5, but not the Fed-2. It shouldn't be a major problem on the
Fed-2.

On the screwmount Leicas, the reason why you set the speed after
winding the shutter is that the arrow telling you what speed you
are at will be pointing to the wrong number if the shutter is not
wound. Nothing will break on the Leica if you set speed first and
wind afterwards, but you will not have set the speed you expected.
Remember that you need to lift the shutter speed dial a small
mount when setting the speed, and don't force anything and you
should be fine.

On the soviet copies of the design without slow speeds the same
should be true. On some of these cameras the arrow is on the
body and the numbers are on the knob (same as Leica) and the
knob will be in the wrong position when unwound so that the arrow
will not point to the correct speed when the shutter isn't cocked.

On some variations, including some Fed-2 cameras, the arrow
(or rather a line) is on a centre post in the middle of the
shutter speed dial. This will point to the correct speed
whether the shutter is wound or not. It should be ok to set
the shutter speed before or after cocking the shutter, but
most people are very wary of doing so because of what can happen
on a Fed-3,4 or 5 or a Zorki 3M. 3C, 4 or 4K.

The soviets came up with a clever scheme to put the slow
speeds on the main shutter speed dial of these cameras.
The penalty for this is that it is possible to break the
shutter if you change the speed before winding. This should
only happen if you apply more than the usual amount of
force to the advance knob or lever. If you accidentally
set the shutter speed before winding, and the film advance
seems jammed, don't force it, just try to set the speed
dial back where it was to unjam the mechanism.

There is a good discussion of this on Rick Oleson's page:

http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-131.html

Peter.
--

In article , says...
Roxy d'Urban wrote:
On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 23:48:01 +0000, Thom wrote:

The seller has just emailed me with all the details for me to pick it up
at our post office and he mentioned that you can only change shutter
speeds before you cock the shutter otherwise you could damage the shutter
curtain. What's that all about?


It is actually only a serious issue with the soviet leica inspired
cameras which have slow speeds. (This includes the Fed-3, Fed-4 and
Fed-5, but not the Fed-2. It shouldn't be a major problem on the
Fed-2.

On the screwmount Leicas, the reason why you set the speed after
winding the shutter is that the arrow telling you what speed you
are at will be pointing to the wrong number if the shutter is not
wound. Nothing will break on the Leica if you set speed first and
wind afterwards, but you will not have set the speed you expected.
Remember that you need to lift the shutter speed dial a small
mount when setting the speed, and don't force anything and you
should be fine.

On the soviet copies of the design without slow speeds the same
should be true. On some of these cameras the arrow is on the
body and the numbers are on the knob (same as Leica) and the
knob will be in the wrong position when unwound so that the arrow
will not point to the correct speed when the shutter isn't cocked.

On some variations, including some Fed-2 cameras, the arrow
(or rather a line) is on a centre post in the middle of the
shutter speed dial. This will point to the correct speed
whether the shutter is wound or not. It should be ok to set
the shutter speed before or after cocking the shutter, but
most people are very wary of doing so because of what can happen
on a Fed-3,4 or 5 or a Zorki 3M. 3C, 4 or 4K.

The soviets came up with a clever scheme to put the slow
speeds on the main shutter speed dial of these cameras.
The penalty for this is that it is possible to break the
shutter if you change the speed before winding. This should
only happen if you apply more than the usual amount of
force to the advance knob or lever. If you accidentally
set the shutter speed before winding, and the film advance
seems jammed, don't force it, just try to set the speed
dial back where it was to unjam the mechanism.

There is a good discussion of this on Rick Oleson's page:

http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-131.html

I agree with what you say, but he seemed to ask just the opposite.

Dick

Dick wrote:

I agree with what you say, but he seemed to ask just the opposite.

There is a real problem with changing the shutter speed before
winding on soviet cameras with slow speeds on the rotating leica
style dial. People are naturally cautious and assume that the
same problem exists with the models which lack slow speeds.

The warning is important for cameras such as the Fed 3, 4, 5.
On a Fed-2 there won't be a problem. Some Fed-2 cameras have
the speed setting mark on a central post in the centre of
the shutter speed dial and will show the speed correctly both
before and after winding the shutter. Others have the arrow
on the camera body (same as old leica) or have the shutter speed
numbers on the camera body and an arrow on the dial and will show
an incorrect speed setting with an uncocked shutter.

It is important to know that you need to lift the shutter speed
dial slightly when changing speeds, and that you shouldn't force
anything. It is a really good habit to always wind the shutter
before changing speeds on a focal plane shutter with a rotating
dial because it does matter on some cameras.

Peter.
--

Dick wrote:

I agree with what you say, but he seemed to ask just the opposite.

There is a real problem with changing the shutter speed before
winding on soviet cameras with slow speeds on the rotating leica
style dial. People are naturally cautious and assume that the
same problem exists with the models which lack slow speeds.

The warning is important for cameras such as the Fed 3, 4, 5.
On a Fed-2 there won't be a problem. Some Fed-2 cameras have
the speed setting mark on a central post in the centre of
the shutter speed dial and will show the speed correctly both
before and after winding the shutter. Others have the arrow
on the camera body (same as old leica) or have the shutter speed
numbers on the camera body and an arrow on the dial and will show
an incorrect speed setting with an uncocked shutter.

It is important to know that you need to lift the shutter speed
dial slightly when changing speeds, and that you shouldn't force
anything. It is a really good habit to always wind the shutter
before changing speeds on a focal plane shutter with a rotating
dial because it does matter on some cameras.

Peter.
--

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 07:58:30 +0200, Roxy d'Urban wrote:

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 23:48:01 +0000, Thom wrote:

http://www.wholesaledigital.co.za/fedhome.htm

That one woiked fine and was surprising. If your refering to the
camera marked SOLD in the upper left hand corner its a D or a C
probably a D if the lens is the one that came with the camera. What I
did find surprising was the cases. I have never seen cases with 2
snaps on any FEDs before. None of mine (21 of them) have it.

Interesting that you are seeing SOLD on the upper left hand one. That's
the one I have bought and should be receiving today (hip hoorah!). I must
have these pages cached because only the top middle one (no. 2) shows up
as sold.

You have 21 FED cameras??? Hell's teeth...

I have dupes, dupes of Zorki's too. I buy (or bid) and then something
in better condition comes along and I upgrade as it were. My
perminent collection has 5 FED-2's (out of a possible 9), 4 Feds-3's
(out of a possible 4), 3 FED-4's (out of a possible 3) and I'm now
starting on FED-5's (have the B already) plus I have a mint condition
Zarra which is basically a FED-2D with out range finder.

I warned you this is addictive! :-) I still have a lot to learn
about them though.

This website gets into the
"type and variant" phase of the collecting. My personal approach is
to get an example of each model 2a, 2b, 2c etc first and then dig
deeper into all the little changes. This I guess means far more home
work, far more money and feeding the FED habit intravenously! :-)

The 2's were the ones with all the colors and of course you just have
to have all the colors or your guanna die! :-) There may have been
some FED-5's in factory colors but it appears that 3 etc were all
re-covered with kits you can buy especially on eBay for about $10.

Then theres that C/D thing were they were using up parts and creating
all kinds of variants and types. Then you can get further into the
quicksand and talk about expot models.

of course one should start with the FED-1's with its minimal of 7
variations. Sure you want to get into this? :-)

It will be a lot cheaper than collecting Leicas, that's for sure!

Ole Joe Stalin is rolling in his grave! These are Leicas comrad! :-)

Seriously, I think at one point FED/Zorki/Leica all took different
roads with this design. I tend to think that the FED-2 was actually a
very great improvement over the Leica but then FED screwed up when
adding a light meter and ended up with a T-34 tank rather than some
thing decent looking like the M series. The FED-4a has got to be the
ugliest camera they ever made! But its so ugly its cute as they say.

The seller has just emailed me with all the details for me to pick it up
at our post office and he mentioned that you can only change shutter
speeds before you cock the shutter otherwise you could damage the shuter
curtain. What's that all about?

Its on the real Leica too and all the clones. Same with the
CONTAX/KIEVs. It was just a thing they all had back then. I can't
explain it mechanically but its 100% true.

Another hint, these cameras all have a 4-5 second setting too. Put
the camera on B and then fire it from the self-timer..

THOM

--
Be careful what you wish for.

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 07:58:30 +0200, Roxy d'Urban wrote:

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 23:48:01 +0000, Thom wrote:

http://www.wholesaledigital.co.za/fedhome.htm

That one woiked fine and was surprising. If your refering to the
camera marked SOLD in the upper left hand corner its a D or a C
probably a D if the lens is the one that came with the camera. What I
did find surprising was the cases. I have never seen cases with 2
snaps on any FEDs before. None of mine (21 of them) have it.

Interesting that you are seeing SOLD on the upper left hand one. That's
the one I have bought and should be receiving today (hip hoorah!). I must
have these pages cached because only the top middle one (no. 2) shows up
as sold.

You have 21 FED cameras??? Hell's teeth...

I have dupes, dupes of Zorki's too. I buy (or bid) and then something
in better condition comes along and I upgrade as it were. My
perminent collection has 5 FED-2's (out of a possible 9), 4 Feds-3's
(out of a possible 4), 3 FED-4's (out of a possible 3) and I'm now
starting on FED-5's (have the B already) plus I have a mint condition
Zarra which is basically a FED-2D with out range finder.

I warned you this is addictive! :-) I still have a lot to learn
about them though.

This website gets into the
"type and variant" phase of the collecting. My personal approach is
to get an example of each model 2a, 2b, 2c etc first and then dig
deeper into all the little changes. This I guess means far more home
work, far more money and feeding the FED habit intravenously! :-)

The 2's were the ones with all the colors and of course you just have
to have all the colors or your guanna die! :-) There may have been
some FED-5's in factory colors but it appears that 3 etc were all
re-covered with kits you can buy especially on eBay for about $10.

Then theres that C/D thing were they were using up parts and creating
all kinds of variants and types. Then you can get further into the
quicksand and talk about expot models.

of course one should start with the FED-1's with its minimal of 7
variations. Sure you want to get into this? :-)

It will be a lot cheaper than collecting Leicas, that's for sure!

Ole Joe Stalin is rolling in his grave! These are Leicas comrad! :-)

Seriously, I think at one point FED/Zorki/Leica all took different
roads with this design. I tend to think that the FED-2 was actually a
very great improvement over the Leica but then FED screwed up when
adding a light meter and ended up with a T-34 tank rather than some
thing decent looking like the M series. The FED-4a has got to be the
ugliest camera they ever made! But its so ugly its cute as they say.

The seller has just emailed me with all the details for me to pick it up
at our post office and he mentioned that you can only change shutter
speeds before you cock the shutter otherwise you could damage the shuter
curtain. What's that all about?

Its on the real Leica too and all the clones. Same with the
CONTAX/KIEVs. It was just a thing they all had back then. I can't
explain it mechanically but its 100% true.

Another hint, these cameras all have a 4-5 second setting too. Put
the camera on B and then fire it from the self-timer..

THOM

--
Be careful what you wish for.

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 13:07:22 +0000 (UTC), Peter Irwin
wrote:

Roxy d'Urban wrote:
On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 23:48:01 +0000, Thom wrote:

The seller has just emailed me with all the details for me to pick it up
at our post office and he mentioned that you can only change shutter
speeds before you cock the shutter otherwise you could damage the shutter
curtain. What's that all about?


It is actually only a serious issue with the soviet leica inspired
cameras which have slow speeds. (This includes the Fed-3, Fed-4 and
Fed-5, but not the Fed-2. It shouldn't be a major problem on the
Fed-2.

other than the fact you won't get the speed you asked for is it worth
the risk of damaging the shutter? Since these cameras are so old I
tend not to wind after a shot but before so theres no spring tension
when not in use.

One of the first things you notice is there's tension when you go to
slower speeds vs todays' where you feel nothing. Even my mid-range
ZENITs don't have any feel but of course most of them didn't have slow
speeds.

THOM



On the screwmount Leicas, the reason why you set the speed after
winding the shutter is that the arrow telling you what speed you
are at will be pointing to the wrong number if the shutter is not
wound. Nothing will break on the Leica if you set speed first and
wind afterwards, but you will not have set the speed you expected.
Remember that you need to lift the shutter speed dial a small
mount when setting the speed, and don't force anything and you
should be fine.

On the soviet copies of the design without slow speeds the same
should be true. On some of these cameras the arrow is on the
body and the numbers are on the knob (same as Leica) and the
knob will be in the wrong position when unwound so that the arrow
will not point to the correct speed when the shutter isn't cocked.

On some variations, including some Fed-2 cameras, the arrow
(or rather a line) is on a centre post in the middle of the
shutter speed dial. This will point to the correct speed
whether the shutter is wound or not. It should be ok to set
the shutter speed before or after cocking the shutter, but
most people are very wary of doing so because of what can happen
on a Fed-3,4 or 5 or a Zorki 3M. 3C, 4 or 4K.

The soviets came up with a clever scheme to put the slow
speeds on the main shutter speed dial of these cameras.
The penalty for this is that it is possible to break the
shutter if you change the speed before winding. This should
only happen if you apply more than the usual amount of
force to the advance knob or lever. If you accidentally
set the shutter speed before winding, and the film advance
seems jammed, don't force it, just try to set the speed
dial back where it was to unjam the mechanism.

There is a good discussion of this on Rick Oleson's page:

http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-131.html

Peter.
--

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 13:07:22 +0000 (UTC), Peter Irwin
wrote:

Roxy d'Urban wrote:
On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 23:48:01 +0000, Thom wrote:

The seller has just emailed me with all the details for me to pick it up
at our post office and he mentioned that you can only change shutter
speeds before you cock the shutter otherwise you could damage the shutter
curtain. What's that all about?


It is actually only a serious issue with the soviet leica inspired
cameras which have slow speeds. (This includes the Fed-3, Fed-4 and
Fed-5, but not the Fed-2. It shouldn't be a major problem on the
Fed-2.

other than the fact you won't get the speed you asked for is it worth
the risk of damaging the shutter? Since these cameras are so old I
tend not to wind after a shot but before so theres no spring tension
when not in use.

One of the first things you notice is there's tension when you go to
slower speeds vs todays' where you feel nothing. Even my mid-range
ZENITs don't have any feel but of course most of them didn't have slow
speeds.

THOM



On the screwmount Leicas, the reason why you set the speed after
winding the shutter is that the arrow telling you what speed you
are at will be pointing to the wrong number if the shutter is not
wound. Nothing will break on the Leica if you set speed first and
wind afterwards, but you will not have set the speed you expected.
Remember that you need to lift the shutter speed dial a small
mount when setting the speed, and don't force anything and you
should be fine.

On the soviet copies of the design without slow speeds the same
should be true. On some of these cameras the arrow is on the
body and the numbers are on the knob (same as Leica) and the
knob will be in the wrong position when unwound so that the arrow
will not point to the correct speed when the shutter isn't cocked.

On some variations, including some Fed-2 cameras, the arrow
(or rather a line) is on a centre post in the middle of the
shutter speed dial. This will point to the correct speed
whether the shutter is wound or not. It should be ok to set
the shutter speed before or after cocking the shutter, but
most people are very wary of doing so because of what can happen
on a Fed-3,4 or 5 or a Zorki 3M. 3C, 4 or 4K.

The soviets came up with a clever scheme to put the slow
speeds on the main shutter speed dial of these cameras.
The penalty for this is that it is possible to break the
shutter if you change the speed before winding. This should
only happen if you apply more than the usual amount of
force to the advance knob or lever. If you accidentally
set the shutter speed before winding, and the film advance
seems jammed, don't force it, just try to set the speed
dial back where it was to unjam the mechanism.

There is a good discussion of this on Rick Oleson's page:

http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-131.html

Peter.
--

Thom wrote:

other than the fact you won't get the speed you asked for is it worth
the risk of damaging the shutter?

On the ones with the centre post (Fed 2c and later, the Zorki-C and
many Zenits)) are designed to show the correct speed whether or not
the shutter has been wound. This is a real improvement on St. Oscar's
design.

Since these cameras are so old I
tend not to wind after a shot but before so theres no spring tension
when not in use.

I always wind just after taking a shot. If a camera is left without
film, I will usually leave it unwound. The springs are under tension
in either case, so I'm not convinced it will make that big a difference.
On the cameras with the slow speeds, I like to set the shutter
to one of the higher speeds or B or 1/30 and then release the shutter
if I'm going to put it away for a while. This will make sure that the
slow speed mechanism is under minimum tension.

One of the first things you notice is there's tension when you go to
slower speeds vs todays' where you feel nothing. Even my mid-range
ZENITs don't have any feel but of course most of them didn't have slow
speeds.

On the ones with slow speeds, you are winding the slow speed timer
when you turn the dial to 1/60th and slower speeds (except for the
1/30th speed which is on the other side of B.) This is a very
strange arrangement, but it seems to work apart from the problem
with changing speeds before winding.

Peter
--

..

Thom wrote:

other than the fact you won't get the speed you asked for is it worth
the risk of damaging the shutter?

On the ones with the centre post (Fed 2c and later, the Zorki-C and
many Zenits)) are designed to show the correct speed whether or not
the shutter has been wound. This is a real improvement on St. Oscar's
design.

Since these cameras are so old I
tend not to wind after a shot but before so theres no spring tension
when not in use.

I always wind just after taking a shot. If a camera is left without
film, I will usually leave it unwound. The springs are under tension
in either case, so I'm not convinced it will make that big a difference.
On the cameras with the slow speeds, I like to set the shutter
to one of the higher speeds or B or 1/30 and then release the shutter
if I'm going to put it away for a while. This will make sure that the
slow speed mechanism is under minimum tension.

One of the first things you notice is there's tension when you go to
slower speeds vs todays' where you feel nothing. Even my mid-range
ZENITs don't have any feel but of course most of them didn't have slow
speeds.

On the ones with slow speeds, you are winding the slow speed timer
when you turn the dial to 1/60th and slower speeds (except for the
1/30th speed which is on the other side of B.) This is a very
strange arrangement, but it seems to work apart from the problem
with changing speeds before winding.

Peter
--

..