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No P&S for a serious hobbyist?



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 21st 07, 12:06 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.point+shoot,rec.photo.digital.zlr
Nushar
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Posts: 31
Default No P&S for a serious hobbyist?

Living with a very nice film SLR, and a digital p&s, i decided to
investigate a serious ditial p&s as my travel camera: compact size,
28-200 range, manual control.

Frankly, I am disgusted that with so many companies flooding the market
with so many models that they must be running out of model numbers to
name them, they have all decided not to offer even a single model that
will appeal to a serious hobbyist like me!

The cameras with all the feature I want are way too big for the purpose
(Lumix FZ-18, oLympus 550 SZ). Cameras of manageable size make you
give up on some important featu Lumix TZ-3 (no manual control) and
LX2 (limited telephoto) are probably the best examples.

So, I'll have to decide which feature to give up: compact size (FZ-18),
manual control (tz-3), telephoto (lx-2 or Leica version). If it is
telephoto I decide to give up, then I'd also investigate the Ricoh
models that start at 24mm.

Or I could just wait until somebody offers the first p&s for me. Why
spend money and still be unhappy? It is not like I don't have any
cameras to take pictures right now.

--
Z (Remove all XX, YY, ZZ)
  #2  
Old August 21st 07, 04:08 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.point+shoot,rec.photo.digital.zlr
measekite
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Posts: 821
Default No P&S for a serious hobbyist?



Nushar wrote:
Living with a very nice film SLR, and a digital p&s, i decided to
investigate a serious ditial p&s as my travel camera: compact size,
28-200 range, manual control.

Frankly, I am disgusted that with so many companies flooding the market
with so many models that they must be running out of model numbers to
name them, they have all decided not to offer even a single model that
will appeal to a serious hobbyist like me!

The cameras with all the feature I want are way too big for the purpose
(Lumix FZ-18, oLympus 550 SZ). Cameras of manageable size make you
give up on some important featu Lumix TZ-3 (no manual control) and
LX2 (limited telephoto) are probably the best examples.

So, I'll have to decide which feature to give up: compact size (FZ-18),
manual control (tz-3), telephoto (lx-2 or Leica version). If it is
telephoto I decide to give up, then I'd also investigate the Ricoh
models that start at 24mm.

Or I could just wait until somebody offers the first p&s for me. Why
spend money and still be unhappy? It is not like I don't have any
cameras to take pictures right now.

You did not mention the Canon S5 IS and the new soon to be released
Canon G9.
  #3  
Old August 21st 07, 04:19 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.point+shoot,rec.photo.digital.zlr
Nushar
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Posts: 31
Default No P&S for a serious hobbyist?

measekite wrote:

: You did not mention the Canon S5 IS and the new soon to be
: released Canon G9.

AFAIK both lack wide angle (28mm or lower).

--
Z (Remove all XX, YY, ZZ)
  #4  
Old August 21st 07, 09:35 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.point+shoot,rec.photo.digital.zlr
AAvK
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Posts: 243
Default No P&S for a serious hobbyist?


"Nushar" wrote in message ...
Living with a very nice film SLR, and a digital p&s, i decided to
investigate a serious ditial p&s as my travel camera: compact size,
28-200 range, manual control.

Frankly, I am disgusted that with so many companies flooding the market
with so many models that they must be running out of model numbers to
name them, they have all decided not to offer even a single model that
will appeal to a serious hobbyist like me!

The cameras with all the feature I want are way too big for the purpose
(Lumix FZ-18, oLympus 550 SZ). Cameras of manageable size make you
give up on some important featu Lumix TZ-3 (no manual control) and
LX2 (limited telephoto) are probably the best examples.

So, I'll have to decide which feature to give up: compact size (FZ-18),
manual control (tz-3), telephoto (lx-2 or Leica version). If it is
telephoto I decide to give up, then I'd also investigate the Ricoh
models that start at 24mm.

Or I could just wait until somebody offers the first p&s for me. Why
spend money and still be unhappy? It is not like I don't have any
cameras to take pictures right now.

--
Z (Remove all XX, YY, ZZ)



You'd HAVE to give up on the 'compact size' unless you can give up zoom size. And
that Oly 550 is really quite small compared to my s6000fd, it's like a s700 (denoted to
be in the "serious" catagory -LOL). But for that insane zoomer I would go with the Oly,
or cut the zoom and spend less on a E900 for compact-ness and serious image quality
(does 9mp raw), which should really be the point of "the hobby". E900 has a good
enough zoom of 32-128mm. Maybe some company makes a slip-on auxiliary lens or
two for it. But don't sterotype "28mm" as being so totaly necessary, please.

--
})))* Giant_Alex
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site:
http://www.e-sword.net/
  #5  
Old August 21st 07, 09:44 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.point+shoot,rec.photo.digital.zlr
AAvK
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 243
Default No P&S for a serious hobbyist?


You'd HAVE to give up on the 'compact size' unless you can give up zoom size. And
that Oly 550 is really quite small compared to my s6000fd, it's like a s700 (denoted to
be in the "serious" catagory -LOL). But for that insane zoomer I would go with the Oly,
or cut the zoom and spend less on a E900 for compact-ness and serious image quality
(does 9mp raw), which should really be the point of "the hobby". E900 has a good
enough zoom of 32-128mm. Maybe some company makes a slip-on auxiliary lens or
two for it. But don't sterotype "28mm" as being so totaly necessary, please.

--
})))* Giant_Alex
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/



Here's the example, slip-on auxiliary lenses and the adapter for them:

ebay's search engine: 230162290331
  #6  
Old August 21st 07, 11:54 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.point+shoot,rec.photo.digital.zlr
Nushar
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Posts: 31
Default No P&S for a serious hobbyist?

AAvK wrote:

...


Thanks. A few points:

(1) I don't need what you call insane zoom, around 200 would be ok. The
rest is bonus, welcome but not required.

(2) I take 28mm as beginning of wide angle. Now, one may say, what
about 29 which is so close? And if that is ok, what's the big deal with
30, and then 31? All of that is fine. If the rest of the package is
compelling, one need not quibble about 27,28, or 29.

Fuji E-90 is a good package which will suit many, but even if I accept
32, the tele end is too short and there are no manual controls: so I am
looking at *three* compromises. I have already determined that in the
present market I need not compromise on more than one featu
wide-angle, tele, manual control, size.

(3) I realize that given the market, I do have to compromise somewhere
even if there are no technological reasons why a camera with all the
features should not be offered (grrrrrr.....). I am trying to decide
what compromise is most acceptable to me. (Of course, waiting is one
possible compromise as I do have other cameras.)

(4) What I need is one single camera, absolutely no attachments etc.
When I travelled with my film camera (35mm fixed focal length) I seem
to miss the wide angle just a little more often than tele, hence my
goal of at least 28mm. I would *like* to have the option of manual
control, but when deciding what to give up it would be one chip on the
table.

The size, everyone has to handle and decide for themselves. For me,
Canon G7, Panasonic TZ-3, LX-2 would have been acceptable on size.
Like many here, I am waiting to see and handle FZ-18.

--
Z (Remove all XX, YY, ZZ)
  #7  
Old August 22nd 07, 04:52 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.point+shoot,rec.photo.digital.zlr
AAvK
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 243
Default No P&S for a serious hobbyist?


"Nushar" wrote in message ...

Thanks. A few points:

(1) I don't need what you call insane zoom, around 200 would be ok. The
rest is bonus, welcome but not required.

(2) I take 28mm as beginning of wide angle. Now, one may say, what
about 29 which is so close? And if that is ok, what's the big deal with
30, and then 31? All of that is fine. If the rest of the package is
compelling, one need not quibble about 27,28, or 29.

Fuji E-90 is a good package which will suit many, but even if I accept
32, the tele end is too short and there are no manual controls: so I am
looking at *three* compromises. I have already determined that in the
present market I need not compromise on more than one featu
wide-angle, tele, manual control, size.


YES but you can get those auxiliaries, remember? They would outdo what you need
but give you what you need. You should download the pdf of the owners manual
read what it can do.

(3) I realize that given the market, I do have to compromise somewhere
even if there are no technological reasons why a camera with all the
features should not be offered (grrrrrr.....). I am trying to decide
what compromise is most acceptable to me. (Of course, waiting is one
possible compromise as I do have other cameras.)

(4) What I need is one single camera, absolutely no attachments etc.


No... one of the principle of proper photgraphy, even given as a "hobby, camera
must be able to take lens filters such as a polarizer, strong UV for long distance
and sky 1A (across a field) and 1B (long distance atmospheric blue control) as well
as neutral density in different strengths for light reduction, as well it must have a
hot shoe but these days you can use a slave flash and a bracket instead...

When I travelled with my film camera (35mm fixed focal length) I seem
to miss the wide angle just a little more often than tele, hence my
goal of at least 28mm.


No kidding!

I would *like* to have the option of manual
control, but when deciding what to give up it would be one chip on the
table.


The size, everyone has to handle and decide for themselves. For me,
Canon G7, Panasonic TZ-3, LX-2 would have been acceptable on size.
Like many here, I am waiting to see and handle FZ-18.

--
Z (Remove all XX, YY, ZZ)



Okay now, pay careful attention:

You must sacrifice that glorious compact size for all the features you want, unless
you buy a Leica M8 and that triple focal length lens they make ($10,000 for both).

But the Fuji s6000fd and the better s9100 do allow full manual control including a
focusing ring on the lens, s9100 being ever so slightly smaller, both giving awesome
image quality and shooting raw. I checked for cameras on
www.dpreview.com/
using the "feature search" for 28 to 200+ - *not one* was a compact, as follows:

Canon PowerShot Pro1 (nice and small, and gone)
Fujifilm FinePix IS-1 (s9100 size, infra red shooting for police work)
Fujifilm FinePix S9100
Fujifilm FinePix S9000 Z (s9100 size)
Fujifilm FinePix S6000 fd (mine, bigger than the s9100)
Fujifilm FinePix S8000 fd (not out yet)
Minolta DiMAGE 7i (gone)
Minolta DiMAGE 7 (gone)
Minolta DiMAGE 7Hi (gone)
Minolta DiMAGE A1 (gone)

ALL of the above are super zooms, is to say "SLR like"

I think it would be a better idea to get a Minolta scan dual III and just use film, truly.

What film SLR system do you have? (please answer that one)

Because you'd probably love a Pentax ME-Super (nice and small, full control) and a
28-200 zoom that ends in 5.6 (also small), Kalimars are famously sharp. The only
extras to carry are a few filters and a flash. That's it. It would be the same size as the
s9100, though a bit heavier. But that Oly 550 would perfect as it is smaller than the
s9100, which is slightly smaller than the s6000fd. If you go into camera stores to see
and handle all, you'll get a far better perspective.

--
})))* Giant_Alex
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/
  #8  
Old August 22nd 07, 09:26 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.point+shoot,rec.photo.digital.zlr
Nushar
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 31
Default No P&S for a serious hobbyist?

AAvK wrote:

: Okay now, pay careful attention:

: You must sacrifice that glorious compact size for all the features
: you want...

: I checked for cameras on www.dpreview.com/ using the "feature
: search" for 28 to 200+ - *not one* was a compact, as follows:
:
: Canon PowerShot Pro1 (nice and small, and gone)
: Fujifilm FinePix IS-1 (s9100 size, infra red shooting for police work)
: Fujifilm FinePix S9100
: Fujifilm FinePix S9000 Z (s9100 size)
: Fujifilm FinePix S6000 fd (mine, bigger than the s9100)
: Fujifilm FinePix S8000 fd (not out yet)
: Minolta DiMAGE 7i (gone)
: Minolta DiMAGE 7 (gone)
: Minolta DiMAGE 7Hi (gone)
: Minolta DiMAGE A1 (gone)

OK, now your turn to pay careful attention...

You don't know how to use dpreview.com. Your criteria were not specific
enough and their engine, seeing too many matches, cut the list off at
10 items arranged alphabetically.

If you were even semi-familiar with the market, you'd know even without
dpreview that a few compact cameras do cover 28-200+ range: Panasonic
Lumix DMC-TZ3; DMC-TZ2; Sony DSC-F828. (From my perspective, the first
two lack manual control; the Sony is a special case because of price as
well as weight.)

Not only that, a few ULTRACOMPACT cameras also cover the 28-200 range:
Ricoh Caplio R3; R4; R5; R6. (Again, for me, no manual control.)

Look, I know my requirements. I have plenty of film cameras for the
situations when they'd serve the need. There are good personal reasons
why I am looking for a digital w/ certain features and no attachments.
In search of such a camera I have almost done a dissertation at
dpreview.com!

The cameras you have listed are classified as "SLR-like" at dpreview.
The lightest of this breed with 28-200+ is Panasonic Lumix FZ-18, which
got alphabetically cut off in your list. If you wish, you can look it
up directly or get to it by specifying the weight 500g. :-)

Anyway, I do realize that I have to make a compromise unless I don't
buy a camera for now. I am waiting to look at the FZ-18 before making
those decisions.

I do appreciate your intention to help. However, your "wagging finger"
beginning, manifest ignorance about the market, and the demeanor most
reminiscent of a missionary preaching to cannibals were a bit annoying.

--
Z (Remove all XX, YY, ZZ)
  #9  
Old August 22nd 07, 04:22 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.point+shoot,rec.photo.digital.zlr
ray
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,278
Default No P&S for a serious hobbyist?

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 23:06:43 +0000, Nushar wrote:

Living with a very nice film SLR, and a digital p&s, i decided to
investigate a serious ditial p&s as my travel camera: compact size,
28-200 range, manual control.

Frankly, I am disgusted that with so many companies flooding the market
with so many models that they must be running out of model numbers to
name them, they have all decided not to offer even a single model that
will appeal to a serious hobbyist like me!

The cameras with all the feature I want are way too big for the purpose
(Lumix FZ-18, oLympus 550 SZ). Cameras of manageable size make you
give up on some important featu Lumix TZ-3 (no manual control) and
LX2 (limited telephoto) are probably the best examples.

So, I'll have to decide which feature to give up: compact size (FZ-18),
manual control (tz-3), telephoto (lx-2 or Leica version). If it is
telephoto I decide to give up, then I'd also investigate the Ricoh
models that start at 24mm.

Or I could just wait until somebody offers the first p&s for me. Why
spend money and still be unhappy? It is not like I don't have any
cameras to take pictures right now.


FWIW - I've found the Kodak P series to be a nice camera - I bought a P850
last fall - refurb from Kodak's online store. It's not all that compact,
but not bad; has full manual controls available; 12x zoom; saves raw,
tiff,jpeg. May not be right for you, but might be worth a look.

  #10  
Old August 22nd 07, 08:22 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.point+shoot,rec.photo.digital.zlr
AAvK
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 243
Default No P&S for a serious hobbyist?


OK, now your turn to pay careful attention...

You don't know how to use dpreview.com. Your criteria were not specific
enough and their engine, seeing too many matches, cut the list off at
10 items arranged alphabetically.

If you were even semi-familiar with the market, you'd know even without
dpreview that a few compact cameras do cover 28-200+ range: Panasonic
Lumix DMC-TZ3; DMC-TZ2; Sony DSC-F828. (From my perspective, the first
two lack manual control; the Sony is a special case because of price as
well as weight.)

Not only that, a few ULTRACOMPACT cameras also cover the 28-200 range:
Ricoh Caplio R3; R4; R5; R6. (Again, for me, no manual control.)

Look, I know my requirements. I have plenty of film cameras for the
situations when they'd serve the need. There are good personal reasons
why I am looking for a digital w/ certain features and no attachments.
In search of such a camera I have almost done a dissertation at
dpreview.com!

The cameras you have listed are classified as "SLR-like" at dpreview.
The lightest of this breed with 28-200+ is Panasonic Lumix FZ-18, which
got alphabetically cut off in your list. If you wish, you can look it
up directly or get to it by specifying the weight 500g. :-)

Anyway, I do realize that I have to make a compromise unless I don't
buy a camera for now. I am waiting to look at the FZ-18 before making
those decisions.

I do appreciate your intention to help. However, your "wagging finger"
beginning, manifest ignorance about the market, and the demeanor most
reminiscent of a missionary preaching to cannibals were a bit annoying.

--
Z (Remove all XX, YY, ZZ)



This is not how to respond to people.

And thank you for revealing "who" you are as a person, you worthless disrespectful
cretin!

You are absolutely mentally abnormal psychiatrically. There is a mental illness
named " anti-social " and this a physical brain condition.

YOU SHOULD NEVER treat people who work to help you as though they
were a piece of trash that you simply use, and I'll never reply to you again.
And if I ever do, it will be an interjection in order to cut you down!

You are a complete and total zodiak weakling with a zero level of conscienciousness
OR respect, OR appreciation for the kindness it takes for some to work and
use their personal time to help you out. And in return, YOU absolutely have
no valid opinion whatsoever.

Didn't anyone ever teach you how to "human" when you were growing up???
Or are you merely a Virgo?

--
Giant_Alex
not my site:
http://www.e-sword.net/
 




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