Dpreview wants to cater to the simple people

On 14 Dec 2008 18:13:50 GMT, Chris Malcolm wrote
in :

In rec.photo.digital.slr-systems John Navas wrote:

It shouldn't be necessary to read an owner's manual to use the product.
I can get in any car and drive it without reading the owner's manual.
It's called standardized controls.

And that's the reason one needs to read camera manuals: lack of
standardised controls.

And that's the problem, bringing us back to what started this thread.
--
Best regards,
John Navas
[PLEASE NOTE: Ads belong *only* in rec.photo.marketplace.digital, as per
http://bobatkins.photo.net/info/charter.htm http://rpdfaq.50megs.com/]

John Navas wrote:
[]
I care about the fine points -- hit or miss (aka basic usage) isn't
good enough. I rarely rely entirely on the camera -- I'm usually
tweaking a bit, exposure compensation, forced flash, backlighting
compensation, selective focus, depth of field control, shutter speed
control.
I suspect you're much the same.

I tweak occasionally, yes, but usually I'm more interested in getting the
picture. These tweaks may be no more than learning how to use the radio
or GPS system on a new car, while the basics of driving or photographing
can be taken for granted. Well, almost.

Cheers,
David

On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 20:27:35 GMT, "David J Taylor"
wrote in
:

John Navas wrote:
[]
I care about the fine points -- hit or miss (aka basic usage) isn't
good enough. I rarely rely entirely on the camera -- I'm usually
tweaking a bit, exposure compensation, forced flash, backlighting
compensation, selective focus, depth of field control, shutter speed
control.
I suspect you're much the same.

I tweak occasionally, yes, but usually I'm more interested in getting the
picture. These tweaks may be no more than learning how to use the radio
or GPS system on a new car, while the basics of driving or photographing
can be taken for granted. Well, almost.

I guess you're just more intuitive or clever or lucky than I am --
I badly blew a shot just this past week because I couldn't figure out
how to set forced flash.
--
Best regards,
John Navas
[PLEASE NOTE: Ads belong *only* in rec.photo.marketplace.digital, as per
http://bobatkins.photo.net/info/charter.htm http://rpdfaq.50megs.com/]

John Navas wrote:
[]
I guess you're just more intuitive or clever or lucky than I am --
I badly blew a shot just this past week because I couldn't figure out
how to set forced flash.

Simply setting flash on/off/auto is usually OK - but setting the flash
power might need the manual!

G

David

On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 09:31:26 -0600, Pat Dalton
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 10:02:13 -0500, "bowser" wrote:


"RichA" wrote in message
...

"John Navas" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 10:10:25 -0800 (PST), RichA
wrote in
:

Boo hoo hoo! The interfaces on the DSLRs and current P&S's confuse
them. They long for the simplicity of their iphones. Figures an
Apple fan would be crying about not understanding technology.

http://blog.dpreview.com/editorial/2...ase-for-a.html

I think the editorial is spot on.

Only for people for whom reading an owner's manual is like pulling teeth.

count me as one of those who reads the manuals, but hates the interfaces and
menu systems on pretty much all digital cameras. I put up with them, but
truly hate them and would welcom a few knobs and dials in lieu of drilling
down a menu system for a simple comand.

Then you need to learn to shop. One of my most favorite P&S cameras has one
button under every finger when holding the camera as one normally would. Manual
zoom and focus rings included. It's like having a keyboard with all fingers on
home-row. No need to ever enter any menu to change all the settings normally
used. Change any setting you need quicker than blinking an eye when you get your
eye-hand coordination worked out after a few days of use.

You would do well with reading manuals before buying any camera. This is why I'd
never buy a Nikon anything. The last time I was making a decision I did just
that and quickly ruled out Nikons. Their menu systems are so convoluted and
annoying, just reading the Nikon manual is a major headache. I can only imagine
how many missed shots you'd get by trying to use their menus. Buying a Nikon
digital would be just as good as not having any camera at all. I didn't even
have to test-drive one to know it would be a huge mistake.

I realize you must be trolling for a response here, but you have to be
kidding if you think Nikon's menus are convoluted. Nikon has the
reputation of some of the most straightforward and easy to use cameras
on the market. At least that's true of their dslr models, I don't
know anything about the Coolpix line.

On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 07:48:01 -0800, John Navas
wrote:

On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 23:58:23 -0500, "RichA"
wrote in :

"John Navas" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 10:10:25 -0800 (PST), RichA
wrote in
:

Boo hoo hoo! The interfaces on the DSLRs and current P&S's confuse
them. They long for the simplicity of their iphones. Figures an
Apple fan would be crying about not understanding technology.

http://blog.dpreview.com/editorial/2...ase-for-a.html

I think the editorial is spot on.

Only for people for whom reading an owner's manual is like pulling teeth.

It shouldn't be necessary to read an owner's manual to use the product.
I can get in any car and drive it without reading the owner's manual.
It's called standardized controls.

Exactly. I was at home with my D200 the instant I picked it up in
the camera store. It is so intuitive to use that I rarely have to
pick up the manual.

In article , John Navas
wrote:

People should test-drive the camera they are interested in.

Good advice, but how do you think they should do that? I think that
generally means going to a local dealer, and I think that creates an
obligation to buy from that dealer -- doing that and then buying online
to get a cheaper price (from a seller that's not paying for a retail
storefront and demo equipment) isn't reasonable or fair. How many
people do you think are prepared to do that?

many people do go to a local camera store and then buy on line because
the local prices are often ridiculous and the stores refuse to budge on
price. also, there are stores where the cameras are all out on display
so you don't have to bother any salesperson at all and you can take as
much time as you want playing with them without any obligation
whatsoever.

On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:03:08 -0500, Stephen Bishop
wrote in
:

On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 09:31:26 -0600, Pat Dalton
wrote:

You would do well with reading manuals before buying any camera. This is why I'd
never buy a Nikon anything. The last time I was making a decision I did just
that and quickly ruled out Nikons. Their menu systems are so convoluted and
annoying, just reading the Nikon manual is a major headache. I can only imagine
how many missed shots you'd get by trying to use their menus. Buying a Nikon
digital would be just as good as not having any camera at all. I didn't even
have to test-drive one to know it would be a huge mistake.

I realize you must be trolling for a response here, but you have to be
kidding if you think Nikon's menus are convoluted. Nikon has the
reputation of some of the most straightforward and easy to use cameras
on the market. At least that's true of their dslr models, I don't
know anything about the Coolpix line.

Sorry, but count me also as someone that finds Nikons Coolpix hard to
use without studying the manuals, and not trolling either, just
frustrated with lack of ease of use.
--
Best regards,
John Navas
[PLEASE NOTE: Ads belong *only* in rec.photo.marketplace.digital, as per
http://bobatkins.photo.net/info/charter.htm http://rpdfaq.50megs.com/]

On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 20:44:13 GMT, "David J Taylor"
wrote in
:

John Navas wrote:
[]
I guess you're just more intuitive or clever or lucky than I am --
I badly blew a shot just this past week because I couldn't figure out
how to set forced flash.

Simply setting flash on/off/auto is usually OK - but setting the flash
power might need the manual!

G

Not power, just forced, which would have needed the manual, and we had
neither the manual nor time to read it.
--
Best regards,
John Navas
[PLEASE NOTE: Ads belong *only* in rec.photo.marketplace.digital, as per
http://bobatkins.photo.net/info/charter.htm http://rpdfaq.50megs.com/]

"bowser" wrote in message
. com...

"RichA" wrote in message
...

"John Navas" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 10:10:25 -0800 (PST), RichA
wrote in
:

Boo hoo hoo! The interfaces on the DSLRs and current P&S's confuse
them. They long for the simplicity of their iphones. Figures an
Apple fan would be crying about not understanding technology.

http://blog.dpreview.com/editorial/2...ase-for-a.html

I think the editorial is spot on.

Only for people for whom reading an owner's manual is like pulling teeth.

count me as one of those who reads the manuals, but hates the interfaces
and menu systems on pretty much all digital cameras. I put up with them,
but truly hate them and would welcom a few knobs and dials in lieu of
drilling down a menu system for a simple comand.

I wish you creatures would make up your minds. "I want them smaller!" "I
want lots of buttons!" You can frigging have BOTH!