Sony Cybershot DSC-W1... Bad Camera...Bad Customer Service bySony... Read on...

Dave wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 09:54:54 -0400, Alan Browne
somehow managed to impart:


David H. Lipman wrote:

Don't top post


Good points. I found the same lack of quality support with Sony Vaio laptops. Therefore I
won't buy Sony.

As for using Lithium AA's in the camera. There is absolutely NO reason why you should not
be able to use them. Electrically they are the same as any other AA batteries, they just
last longer. I buy mine from Sears at ~$10.00 for 4 x AA batteries (better price than Radio
Shack).

When the camera manufacturer puts in a warning:
"AA Lithium batteries cannot be used" it is there for a good reason.


Yes, but what?

No idea. Unfortunately they don't explain why. The body 123
batteries I use are lithium, but the vertical grip instructions
say "thou shalt not" without explanation as to why. A
possibility is that the instructions were generated at about the
time lithiums came on the market, perhaps with some
characteristic that the engineers at Minolta were wary of, hence
the warning ... but no "why". Possibly it can be used with
lithiums without trouble at all...


--
--e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--

"Alan Browne" wrote in message
news
Dave wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 09:54:54 -0400, Alan Browne
somehow managed to impart:


David H. Lipman wrote:

Don't top post


Good points. I found the same lack of quality support with Sony Vaio
laptops. Therefore I
won't buy Sony.

As for using Lithium AA's in the camera. There is absolutely NO reason
why you should not
be able to use them. Electrically they are the same as any other AA
batteries, they just
last longer. I buy mine from Sears at ~$10.00 for 4 x AA batteries
(better price than Radio
Shack).

When the camera manufacturer puts in a warning:
"AA Lithium batteries cannot be used" it is there for a good reason.


Yes, but what?

No idea. Unfortunately they don't explain why. The body 123
batteries I use are lithium, but the vertical grip instructions
say "thou shalt not" without explanation as to why. A
possibility is that the instructions were generated at about the
time lithiums came on the market, perhaps with some
characteristic that the engineers at Minolta were wary of, hence
the warning ... but no "why". Possibly it can be used with
lithiums without trouble at all...


--
--e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--


I know every time I've used a set of my Lithiums to power up a flashlight,
the bulb doesn't last very long (e.g. minutes at most). Therefore I'd be
cautious of using them in anything that says not to.

pjp wrote:

No idea. Unfortunately they don't explain why. The body 123
batteries I use are lithium, but the vertical grip instructions
say "thou shalt not" without explanation as to why. A
possibility is that the instructions were generated at about the
time lithiums came on the market, perhaps with some
characteristic that the engineers at Minolta were wary of, hence
the warning ... but no "why". Possibly it can be used with
lithiums without trouble at all...


--
--e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--



I know every time I've used a set of my Lithiums to power up a flashlight,
the bulb doesn't last very long (e.g. minutes at most). Therefore I'd be
cautious of using them in anything that says not to.


Really? Wow. Any web references you can point me to? I'm not
about to 'test' the batteries in the grip (US$200 or so) in any case.

Cheers,
Alan

--
--e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--

Energizer silver/blue lithium batteries are designed for digital cameras
specifically. I don't think they intended to use them in flashlights.

"pjp" wrote in message
...

"Alan Browne" wrote in message
news
Dave wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 09:54:54 -0400, Alan Browne
somehow managed to impart:


David H. Lipman wrote:

Don't top post


Good points. I found the same lack of quality support with Sony Vaio
laptops. Therefore I
won't buy Sony.

As for using Lithium AA's in the camera. There is absolutely NO
reason
why you should not
be able to use them. Electrically they are the same as any other AA
batteries, they just
last longer. I buy mine from Sears at ~$10.00 for 4 x AA batteries
(better price than Radio
Shack).

When the camera manufacturer puts in a warning:
"AA Lithium batteries cannot be used" it is there for a good reason.


Yes, but what?

No idea. Unfortunately they don't explain why. The body 123
batteries I use are lithium, but the vertical grip instructions
say "thou shalt not" without explanation as to why. A
possibility is that the instructions were generated at about the
time lithiums came on the market, perhaps with some
characteristic that the engineers at Minolta were wary of, hence
the warning ... but no "why". Possibly it can be used with
lithiums without trouble at all...


--
--e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--


I know every time I've used a set of my Lithiums to power up a flashlight,
the bulb doesn't last very long (e.g. minutes at most). Therefore I'd be
cautious of using them in anything that says not to.

Alkaline batteries voltage drop as a function. Therefore the filament receives a lower
voltage as a function of time and burns less hot as a function of time.

Lithium batteries provide a constant voltage as a function of time until its life has been
spent then its voltage drops off rapidly to zero. Therefore the filament receives a
constant voltage as a function of time and burns hot consistently over the life span of the
battery thus reducing the life span of the bulb.

Cameras, CD players, DVD players or other electronic devices are active devices as opposed
to bulbs which are passive device which are electrical not electronic devices. Therefore
the two, cameras and flashlights, can NOT be compared equally.

Dave




"unavailable" wrote in message
link.net...
| Energizer silver/blue lithium batteries are designed for digital cameras
| specifically. I don't think they intended to use them in flashlights.
|
| "pjp" wrote in message
| ...
|
| "Alan Browne" wrote in message
| news | Dave wrote:
| On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 09:54:54 -0400, Alan Browne
| somehow managed to impart:
|
|
| David H. Lipman wrote:
|
| Don't top post
|
|
| Good points. I found the same lack of quality support with Sony Vaio
| laptops. Therefore I
| won't buy Sony.
|
| As for using Lithium AA's in the camera. There is absolutely NO
| reason
| why you should not
| be able to use them. Electrically they are the same as any other AA
| batteries, they just
| last longer. I buy mine from Sears at ~$10.00 for 4 x AA batteries
| (better price than Radio
| Shack).
|
| When the camera manufacturer puts in a warning:
| "AA Lithium batteries cannot be used" it is there for a good reason.
|
|
| Yes, but what?
|
| No idea. Unfortunately they don't explain why. The body 123
| batteries I use are lithium, but the vertical grip instructions
| say "thou shalt not" without explanation as to why. A
| possibility is that the instructions were generated at about the
| time lithiums came on the market, perhaps with some
| characteristic that the engineers at Minolta were wary of, hence
| the warning ... but no "why". Possibly it can be used with
| lithiums without trouble at all...
|
|
| --
| --e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
|
|
| I know every time I've used a set of my Lithiums to power up a flashlight,
| the bulb doesn't last very long (e.g. minutes at most). Therefore I'd be
| cautious of using them in anything that says not to.
|
|
|
|

Oooops...

I meant to state... "Alkaline batteries voltage drop as a function of time."

Dave




"David H. Lipman" wrote in message
...
| Alkaline batteries voltage drop as a function. Therefore the filament receives a lower
| voltage as a function of time and burns less hot as a function of time.
|
| Lithium batteries provide a constant voltage as a function of time until its life has been
| spent then its voltage drops off rapidly to zero. Therefore the filament receives a
| constant voltage as a function of time and burns hot consistently over the life span of
the
| battery thus reducing the life span of the bulb.
|
| Cameras, CD players, DVD players or other electronic devices are active devices as opposed
| to bulbs which are passive device which are electrical not electronic devices. Therefore
| the two, cameras and flashlights, can NOT be compared equally.
|
| Dave

"pjp" wrote in message
...
I know every time I've used a set of my Lithiums to power up a flashlight,
the bulb doesn't last very long (e.g. minutes at most). Therefore I'd be
cautious of using them in anything that says not to.

If the voltage is correct for the bulb, the battery type can't hurt it. I
suggest you look up Ohm's law, and take a few minutes to learn some basic
electrical theory.....Believe me, it should only take an hour or less, and
the information will be invaluable to you, regardless of what you choose for
your profession.......

William Graham wrote:

"pjp" wrote in message
...

I know every time I've used a set of my Lithiums to power up a flashlight,
the bulb doesn't last very long (e.g. minutes at most). Therefore I'd be
cautious of using them in anything that says not to.


If the voltage is correct for the bulb, the battery type can't hurt it. I
suggest you look up Ohm's law, and take a few minutes to learn some basic
electrical theory.....Believe me, it should only take an hour or less, and
the information will be invaluable to you, regardless of what you choose for
your profession.......


WRONG!
Lithium batteries are capable of delivering very high currents. If a
flashlight is designed for carbon/zinc or alkaline batteries, the
designers are probably counting on the internal resistance of the
batteries to limit the current through the bulb. Lithiums could easily
burn out the bulb. But, it's your flashlight, try it out. Then tell us
how it affects bulb life.

"Ron Hunter" wrote in message
...
William Graham wrote:

"pjp" wrote in message
...

I know every time I've used a set of my Lithiums to power up a
flashlight,
the bulb doesn't last very long (e.g. minutes at most). Therefore I'd be
cautious of using them in anything that says not to.


If the voltage is correct for the bulb, the battery type can't hurt it.
I
suggest you look up Ohm's law, and take a few minutes to learn some
basic
electrical theory.....Believe me, it should only take an hour or less,
and
the information will be invaluable to you, regardless of what you choose
for
your profession.......


WRONG!
Lithium batteries are capable of delivering very high currents. If a
flashlight is designed for carbon/zinc or alkaline batteries, the
designers are probably counting on the internal resistance of the
batteries to limit the current through the bulb. Lithiums could easily
burn out the bulb. But, it's your flashlight, try it out. Then tell us
how it affects bulb life.

I am sorry to disagree with you, but the internal resistance of the bulb is
what limits the current, (Ohm's law) and not the capability of the battery.
A 12 volt light bulb will operate the same with a lead-acid truck battery
that is capable of delivering 200 amperes, and not burn out one second
sooner that it would if operating on eight 1-1/2 volt AA flashlight
batteries. Now, having said that, it is certainly true that there are types
of batteries that differ in voltage output by slight amounts. Lithiums, I
believe, put out 1.55 volts per cell, and not 1.5 as do alkalines. Also, the
Ni-mhd type might put out only 1.2 volts per cell, so a bulb that is
nominally rated for 1.5 volts would last longer (because it burns cooler) on
a set of Ni-mhd batteries than it would on the same set of lithiums. But it
isn't the fault of the battery type, but rather the total voltage that is
impressed on the bulb filament. 12 volt lead acid batteries, for example,
can be charged up to around 14 volts, so one should be careful when one uses
them in devices that are meant for a nominal 12 volts, not because of their
internal resistance, but simply because 14 volts might smoke the
device.........

http://flashlightreviews.home.att.ne..._explained.htm

I thought it sounded like a good idea to put my NiMH batteries through
a deep refresh cycle in my mini Maglite. I toasted the bulb in short
order. The new package says not to use them with rechargable
batteries. This page says to only use alkaline batteries.
http://www.maglite.com/custserv.asp?...F_AAMM_Eng.gif

Maybe someone could invent a little resistor cap for lithium batteries,
but, of course, some power would be lost to heat.

I read an article in a magazine called Real Simple (www.realsimple.com)
that tested batteries in a Sony 1.3 MP digital camera. The article is from
June/July 2002, so battery technology and prices may differ. Here is the
table from the article, space formatted in OE using the default font. They
didn't test rechargeables.

Battery Price/Battery #Shots Price/Shot

Radio Shack
Enercell alkaline $1.50 94 1.6¢

Duracell
Cu-top alkaline $1.75 108 1.6¢

Rite-Aid alkaline $1.25 76 1.6¢

Duracell Ultra $2.00 121 1.7¢

Energizer e2
Titanium $1.50 82 1.8¢

Energizer e2
Lithium $5.00 220 2.3¢