Should I get a Minolta 7?

Currently I use a Minolta 5 and was thinking of getting another
(as backup) before they go out of stock, but couldn't find one
without Quartz Date, so I refrained from buying.

I like the 5 except I wish it had flash compensation. Several
years ago I tried the Maxxum 7 in a store, and didn't like it.
It has too many knobs, no panic button, and seems heavier than
necessary. OTOH it has flash compensation, and the honeycomb
graph on the back LCD might be useful in some situations.

Analyzing my recent wedding pictures with the 5, everything
was perfectly exposed (indoor flash, fill flash, no flash)
or nearly so. (I was quite surprised because I used Sigma
flash! ;-) Several pictures taken with the 70-210/4 were
slightly out of focus.* The 70-210 is my slowest AF-ing lens.
I use it for headshots because of nice perspective and great
sharpness and bokeh at the short end. I suppose the 5 can't
keep up with it-- the 7 probably could. Probably for the
next wedding I would get a Tamron 28-75/2.8 Di in order to
avoid mid-event lens changes.

* You'd think this wouldn't be possible with Focus-priority.
Some shots could be explained by flowers or guitar necks
in the way, which an AF point glommed onto (should've used
center only, maybe?) but others could not be explained.

So I'd appreciate comments from anyone (Alan Browne?) as to
autofocusing differences between the 5 and 7. Also whether
you think I might get used to an old-style knobby interface.
If anyone has a 7 and 70-210/4, are images always in focus?

"Bill Tuthill" wrote in message
...
I like the 5 except I wish it had flash compensation. Several
years ago I tried the Maxxum 7 in a store, and didn't like it.
It has too many knobs, no panic button, and seems heavier than
necessary. OTOH it has flash compensation, and the honeycomb
graph on the back LCD might be useful in some situations.

Heavy? Try a 9 with a vertical grip! ;-) My 7 is almost not there in
comparison!

Analyzing my recent wedding pictures with the 5, everything
was perfectly exposed (indoor flash, fill flash, no flash)
or nearly so. (I was quite surprised because I used Sigma
flash! ;-)

No surprise - the camera controls the flash exposure. The 5 has a decent
flash meter, unfortunately with no flash comp. Yeah, I know about the
Minolta Two-Step, but it's easier to actually have the knob in front of you.

Several pictures taken with the 70-210/4 were
slightly out of focus.* The 70-210 is my slowest AF-ing lens.
I use it for headshots because of nice perspective and great
sharpness and bokeh at the short end. I suppose the 5 can't
keep up with it-- the 7 probably could. Probably for the
next wedding I would get a Tamron 28-75/2.8 Di in order to
avoid mid-event lens changes.

* You'd think this wouldn't be possible with Focus-priority.
Some shots could be explained by flowers or guitar necks
in the way, which an AF point glommed onto (should've used
center only, maybe?) but others could not be explained.

Always select your own AF point. I learned that one long ago. That's
probably the problem. The camera chose the wrong point.

So I'd appreciate comments from anyone (Alan Browne?) as to
autofocusing differences between the 5 and 7. Also whether
you think I might get used to an old-style knobby interface.
If anyone has a 7 and 70-210/4, are images always in focus?

I used the 70-210 f4 with my 7 to shoot figure skating (along with the
80-200 G). I always used the central sensor. Shots are always sharp,
unless I get motion blur - one reason to use the G, but it's pretty heavy
for a day's shooting (not the the f4 is light!)

I can't predict how well you'll do with the interface. I like knobs. Panic
mode is a waste imho. YMMV. If you want complete dummy mode, set the 7 to
the green P.

Mike

Bill Tuthill wrote in message ...


I would not use this **** if it were the last stuff on Earth.

Currently I use a Minolta 5 and was thinking of getting another
(as backup) before they go out of stock, but couldn't find one
without Quartz Date, so I refrained from buying.

I like the 5 except I wish it had flash compensation. Several
years ago I tried the Maxxum 7 in a store, and didn't like it.
It has too many knobs, no panic button, and seems heavier than
necessary. OTOH it has flash compensation, and the honeycomb
graph on the back LCD might be useful in some situations.

Analyzing my recent wedding pictures with the 5, everything
was perfectly exposed (indoor flash, fill flash, no flash)
or nearly so. (I was quite surprised because I used Sigma
flash! ;-) Several pictures taken with the 70-210/4 were
slightly out of focus.* The 70-210 is my slowest AF-ing lens.
I use it for headshots because of nice perspective and great
sharpness and bokeh at the short end. I suppose the 5 can't
keep up with it-- the 7 probably could. Probably for the
next wedding I would get a Tamron 28-75/2.8 Di in order to
avoid mid-event lens changes.

* You'd think this wouldn't be possible with Focus-priority.
Some shots could be explained by flowers or guitar necks
in the way, which an AF point glommed onto (should've used
center only, maybe?) but others could not be explained.

So I'd appreciate comments from anyone (Alan Browne?) as to
autofocusing differences between the 5 and 7. Also whether
you think I might get used to an old-style knobby interface.
If anyone has a 7 and 70-210/4, are images always in focus?

Bill Tuthill wrote:

Currently I use a Minolta 5 and was thinking of getting another
(as backup) before they go out of stock, but couldn't find one
without Quartz Date, so I refrained from buying.

A backup would be fine w/o date on it, I would think. Or do you
date stamp ALL your photos?

I like the 5 except I wish it had flash compensation. Several
years ago I tried the Maxxum 7 in a store, and didn't like it.
It has too many knobs, no panic button, and seems heavier than
necessary. OTOH it has flash compensation, and the honeycomb
graph on the back LCD might be useful in some situations.

The 7 is a very well designed camera for shooting. That it puts
the most useful functions on seperate knobs available to shoot is
a benefit v. searching for them in menus.
The back LCD screen with the honeycomb EXP display is useful for
making sure your scene fits the film. A friend has the Maxxum 7
and is nothing short of delighted with it.


Analyzing my recent wedding pictures with the 5, everything
was perfectly exposed (indoor flash, fill flash, no flash)
or nearly so. (I was quite surprised because I used Sigma
flash! ;-) Several pictures taken with the 70-210/4 were
slightly out of focus.* The 70-210 is my slowest AF-ing lens.
I use it for headshots because of nice perspective and great
sharpness and bokeh at the short end. I suppose the 5 can't
keep up with it-- the 7 probably could. Probably for the
next wedding I would get a Tamron 28-75/2.8 Di in order to
avoid mid-event lens changes.

Say it ain't so!

* You'd think this wouldn't be possible with Focus-priority.
Some shots could be explained by flowers or guitar necks
in the way, which an AF point glommed onto (should've used
center only, maybe?) but others could not be explained.

So I'd appreciate comments from anyone (Alan Browne?) as to
autofocusing differences between the 5 and 7. Also whether
you think I might get used to an old-style knobby interface.
If anyone has a 7 and 70-210/4, are images always in focus?

AF differences (5 v. 7) I can't comment on. I don't use the AF
in my 9 much. The 7 has the fastest AF of any Maxxum (of most AF
cameras for that matter). They all use variations (driven by no.
of AF points) of the same AF algos... maybe improved with later
models. Leonard Pang (on the Yahoo groups) and others there may
be able to give you a more direct comparison (5 v. 7). My SO has
had the Maxxum 5 for a couple months now. It took her a couple
rolls of film to avoid mistakes with the AF... but I'm sure
you're beyond that level.

AF is a funny thing and can be fooled in low light, in the
presence of line patterns and reflected light. Further, tripod
mounted AF shots (any brand) are often shown to yield shots that
are not as sharp as a well manually focused, tripod mounted shot.
If your lens is slow, you're exacerbating the problem (less
light for the sensor to work with).

YES! I believe the bedknobs and broomsticks IS the way to operate
cameras (v. menus). Unlike the 5, when you do EXP comp or
Flash comp you simply do it with your left hand, usually without
removing your eye from the VF and without hunting a menu or
changing a mode dial.

Flash results should be similar with the Max 7, plus you get the
Flash exp comp which will no doubt help.

The 7 is at a very low price these days ... it would be time to
pounce... a date back is seperate, however.

Hope that helps. I'm admittedly biased towards the 7 (v. the 5)
and if you can stand the weight, take a look at the 9 too (a more
basic, but supremely capable and tough camera than the 7).

Keep in mind also the digtial SLR that K-M are promissing us, and
it appears largely based on the 7.

Cheers,
Alan


--
--e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--

On 25 Jun 2004 19:31:09 -0700, (Michael
Scarpitti) wrote:


I would not use this **** if it were the last stuff on Earth.

We all know you're partial to the Argus C3, Mike.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Professional Shop Rat: 14,359 days in a GM plant.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Bill, See my comments by your questions.

Bill Tuthill wrote in message ...
Currently I use a Minolta 5 and was thinking of getting another
(as backup) before they go out of stock, but couldn't find one
without Quartz Date, so I refrained from buying.

I like the 5 except I wish it had flash compensation. Several
years ago I tried the Maxxum 7 in a store, and didn't like it.
It has too many knobs, no panic button, and seems heavier than
necessary. OTOH it has flash compensation, and the honeycomb
graph on the back LCD might be useful in some situations.

I've had the 7 since Oct 2000. My previous camera was the XTsi
(similar to your old HTsi). I bought the 7 because of specific
features that I wanted but that the Xtsi lacked such as flash comp,
DOF preview, and a metering scale. The 5 has two of those features.
The 7 has some other features, that I had dreamed about, but never
expected to actually see in a camera. Specifically, DMF focusing
(that lets you touch up the focus after AF locks, the AF/MF push
button (that lets you change to MF at any time, I use it primarily for
prefocusing and if the Af is having trouble locking where I want it,
The DOF scale on the back and the 14-seg meter display. I was
concerned about the weight until I tried it. Obviously, it depends on
your hand size, but the 7 feels like a glove to me. I keep trying to
convince myself that I should get the vertical grip, but I have never
found it necessary. When I hold the camera vertically with the normal
grip, I feel like the camera is gripping my hand.

I was concerned that the 7 didn't have subject programs, since I used
action and portrait occasionally, and that it didn't have the panic
button. However, I always found that the panic button on my XTsi was
only the first step in clearing my settings and I then had to set the
functions I usually wanted.

Instead of the panic button, the 7 has 3 program memories on the AE
mode dial. I set memory #2 to be my "panic" setting, but in this
case, I use it to bring me all the way back to the specific settings I
want (A-priority, DMF, exp & flash comps to 0, single shot mode,
normal flash mode, central AF point, 14-seg metering). Sometimes I'll
set up #1 as P-mode, or with continuous drive and contin AF -
depending on what I expect to shoot, same with #3.

I find the individual dials to be easy to use. If I want to change AF
mode, I know I grab the front dial, and the progression is M, Contin,
A or DMF, and single shot. I can do it in the dark. Likewise if I
want to switch to spot metering all I do is turn the dial on the back.
Another feature of the 7, although some people who were used to the
spot button on the 700si and other cameras, such as the _Tsi and 5,
may not like it as much, is that the AE lock locks the exposure using
the current metering mode. So if I'm using 14-seg, AE locks it and
turns the spot meter on for comparison. So then when I analyze the
scene by placing the central spot over different parts of the scene,
the meter shows me the difference between the spot location and the
locked 14-seg reading (or locked spot or CW reading depending on the
position of the switch.

I use the 14-seg display on the back when I'm tripod mounted and have
my composition locked down.


Analyzing my recent wedding pictures with the 5, everything
was perfectly exposed (indoor flash, fill flash, no flash)
or nearly so. (I was quite surprised because I used Sigma
flash! ;-) Several pictures taken with the 70-210/4 were
slightly out of focus.* The 70-210 is my slowest AF-ing lens.
I use it for headshots because of nice perspective and great
sharpness and bokeh at the short end. I suppose the 5 can't
keep up with it-- the 7 probably could. Probably for the
next wedding I would get a Tamron 28-75/2.8 Di in order to
avoid mid-event lens changes.

* You'd think this wouldn't be possible with Focus-priority.
Some shots could be explained by flowers or guitar necks
in the way, which an AF point glommed onto (should've used
center only, maybe?) but others could not be explained.

I usually use the central AF point, but if I'm using 4-seg flash
metering I will manually select the sensor I want to use. Its faster
to use the AF pad on the back of the 7 to set the sensor to use and
pressing a button and turning a dial. I usually do not use wide AF
mode. The red AF indicator lights in the VF are brighter on the 7 so
it is easier to tell which one is set, although they don't light up
during contin AF (only when you select the sensor). Speaking of red
lights, the red AF focusing aid light on the 7 is much less annoying
and is more useful than the preflash on the 5.



So I'd appreciate comments from anyone (Alan Browne?) as to
autofocusing differences between the 5 and 7. Also whether
you think I might get used to an old-style knobby interface.
If anyone has a 7 and 70-210/4, are images always in focus?

I don't have the 70-210/4, I have the /3.5-4.5. Sometimes, the lens
drives too fast and in situations of poor contrast, it can hunt.
Using slow AF or prefocusing with the AF/MF button helps a lot. I've
used it for a wedding and had no difficulties in bright sun, dark
shade, and indoors, but again I select the sensor I want to use.

I have also found that the central cross sensor locks much easier than
any of the line sensors (unless the line of contrast is approx
perpendicular to the sensor line.) I recently bought an old first
generation 100 f/2.8 macro. The f/2.8 lens allows the central sensor
to act as a double cross (+ superimposed by X). This lens almost
always locks first time very quickly. I even use AF at 1:1 macro hand
held with the center sensor and it works beautifully (assuming the
center sensor is the appropriate one for the composition) This
performance has just about convinced mt that it is worth while buying
f/2.8 and faster lenses.

An other point that is important to me is that the navigation display
shows the custom settings in text language (English for me). It means
that I can customize the camera for the particular type of shooting I
intend to do that day. If something changes during the shoot, I can
easily modify the custom settings with out digging through a manual.

Tom

Alan Browne wrote:

Currently I use a Minolta 5 and was thinking of getting another
(as backup) before they go out of stock, but couldn't find one
without Quartz Date, so I refrained from buying.

A backup would be fine w/o date on it, I would think. Or do you
date stamp ALL your photos?

Guess I wasn't clear. I want a 5 withOUT quartz date. I'm afraid
if the feature is on the camera, I'll turn it on by mistake.

The 7 is a very well designed camera for shooting. That it puts
the most useful functions on seperate knobs available to shoot is
a benefit v. searching for them in menus.

Thanks, that's a useful datapoint, implying I could get used to it.

AF is a funny thing and can be fooled in low light, in the
presence of line patterns and reflected light. Further, tripod
mounted AF shots (any brand) are often shown to yield shots that
are not as sharp as a well manually focused, tripod mounted shot.

Right, but during a wedding it's just not possible to fiddle around
with manual focus and tripod mounting. I did use a tripod for the
posed formals, and not a single one of them was out of focus, or
bad in any way (except subjects blinking).

The 7 is at a very low price these days ... it would be time to
pounce... a date back is seperate, however.

Very true. The DSLR has a big point in its favor -- antishake --
so unless Minolta completely screws up the CCD noise suppression,
it looks like this system has a future.

Bill Tuthill wrote:

Alan Browne wrote:

Currently I use a Minolta 5 and was thinking of getting another
(as backup) before they go out of stock, but couldn't find one
without Quartz Date, so I refrained from buying.

A backup would be fine w/o date on it, I would think. Or do you
date stamp ALL your photos?


Guess I wasn't clear. I want a 5 withOUT quartz date. I'm afraid
if the feature is on the camera, I'll turn it on by mistake.

Sorry, misread the "without" as "with". I think, judging by the
many sales, that the 5Q was overproduced. I guess they
anticipated that at the entrance point in the market, people
would want that "familly snapshot" feature...



The 7 is a very well designed camera for shooting. That it puts
the most useful functions on seperate knobs available to shoot is
a benefit v. searching for them in menus.


Thanks, that's a useful datapoint, implying I could get used to it.

It will take you all of one roll of film using A, S and M in
various situations with and without [attached] flash.



AF is a funny thing and can be fooled in low light, in the
presence of line patterns and reflected light. Further, tripod
mounted AF shots (any brand) are often shown to yield shots that
are not as sharp as a well manually focused, tripod mounted shot.


Right, but during a wedding it's just not possible to fiddle around
with manual focus and tripod mounting. I did use a tripod for the
posed formals, and not a single one of them was out of focus, or
bad in any way (except subjects blinking).

I shot some grad pictures earlier this week. I steadfastly stuck
to the tripod (three locations in a little over 1 hour... I was
not a happy camper).



The 7 is at a very low price these days ... it would be time to
pounce... a date back is seperate, however.


Very true. The DSLR has a big point in its favor -- antishake --
so unless Minolta completely screws up the CCD noise suppression,
it looks like this system has a future.

....we pray...

Cheers,
Alan



--
--e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--

David Starr wrote in message . ..
On 25 Jun 2004 19:31:09 -0700, (Michael
Scarpitti) wrote:


I would not use this **** if it were the last stuff on Earth.

We all know you're partial to the Argus C3, Mike.


Yeah, right. I got one for my father on e-bay to replace the one I
broke when I was a child. It's for sentimental reasons.

Tom wrote:
[maybe] I should get the vertical grip, but I have never
found it necessary. When I hold the camera vertically with the normal
grip, I feel like the camera is gripping my hand.

Thanks for your comments, Tom!

For the wedding I used a tripod head with flip-up platform for verticals
(and bought a box wrench to tighten it up). A vertical grip would make
the camera rig even more side-heavy when flipped.

Instead of the panic button, the 7 has 3 program memories on the AE
mode dial. I set memory #2 to be my "panic" setting..

Right, I forgot about the 3 custom memory settings. Probably I'd program
one for sports-like mode, and change the others.

... I know I grab the front dial, and the progression is M, Contin,
A or DMF, and single shot. I can do it in the dark.

Interesting. I find the 5 very hard to handle in the dark, mostly
due to lack of back-lit LCD, but also because controls are invisible.

I usually use the central AF point, but if I'm using 4-seg flash
metering I will manually select the sensor I want to use.

Do you know how 4-seg flash metering corresponds to the 9(?) AF points
when in non-flash mode? I never understood this.

... Speaking of red lights, the red AF focusing aid light on the 7
is much less annoying and is more useful than the preflash on the 5.

Yup, this is a big plus for the 7. Does the red AF focusing light
operate when accessory flash is mounted on the shoe? Probably not,
since most speedlights have their own red pattern. My Sigma EF 500's
red pattern is not very good (its grid is offcenter).

I have also found that the central cross sensor locks much easier than
any of the line sensors (unless the line of contrast is approx
perpendicular to the sensor line.) I recently bought an old first
generation 100 f/2.8 macro. The f/2.8 lens allows the central sensor
to act as a double cross (+ superimposed by X). This lens almost
always locks first time very quickly. I even use AF at 1:1 macro hand
held with the center sensor and it works beautifully (assuming the
center sensor is the appropriate one for the composition) This
performance has just about convinced mt that it is worth while buying
f/2.8 and faster lenses.

Wow. This is another thing I'd forgotten.