Flash/Lighting Question

I've taken a number of great shots of my baby, so good that some friends and
some family have asked me to do some similar shots of their kids. Now the
catch is i've mostly taken shots outdoors in open shade, or using 3200 B&W
film when indoors, so I've been able to get away with natural lighting and
bright indoors lighting. My friends however want their shots done in their
home, which isn't as bright as my home, and they want some nice clear colour
shots, which means film much slower than 3200, and some form of additional
lighting.
Now, I have an old flashgun which has a guide no of 15m @ iso 100. My Pentax
MZ60 also has an inbuilt flash, which I believe also has a guide no of 15m @
iso 100. I have tested both these flashes on myself at the sort of distance
that I'd be shooting from, and I find them too bright, so I am very
reluctant to point them toward a baby. I have had a quick look at a few
local camera shops for a lower rated flashgun and can't find one. So I am
puzzled as to what to do about lighting. I thought about making up a couple
of light boxes using 50W halogen downlamps, but that would introduce colour
balance problems unless I can track down some tungsten film, which so far
none of the local stores have (getting anything other than the normal
Kodak/Fuji consumer films is like a lottery), or I would need to use colour
correction filters which will kill a couple of stops of light. The other
thought I had was to put a piece of white plastic (eg from an icecream
container), over my flashgun - if I go this route I will need to do a bunch
of test shots to work out the new metering level, and i'm still not real
sure it has dropped the light to a safe level. Finally, I have also
considered making a light box up using daylight flourescent lamps, or a lot
of high intensity white LEDS. I'm not sure how accurate the white balance
would be from these either. As always, budget is tight and so is a big
consideration too. Or maybe I should just tell them that grainy B&W's from
P3200 is what they are getting.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

In article ,
"Graham Fountain" wrote:

I've taken a number of great shots of my baby, so good that some friends and
some family have asked me to do some similar shots of their kids. Now the
catch is i've mostly taken shots outdoors in open shade, or using 3200 B&W
film when indoors, so I've been able to get away with natural lighting and
bright indoors lighting. My friends however want their shots done in their
home, which isn't as bright as my home, and they want some nice clear colour
shots, which means film much slower than 3200, and some form of additional
lighting.
Now, I have an old flashgun which has a guide no of 15m @ iso 100. My Pentax
MZ60 also has an inbuilt flash, which I believe also has a guide no of 15m @
iso 100. I have tested both these flashes on myself at the sort of distance
that I'd be shooting from, and I find them too bright, so I am very
reluctant to point them toward a baby. I have had a quick look at a few
local camera shops for a lower rated flashgun and can't find one. So I am
puzzled as to what to do about lighting. I thought about making up a couple
of light boxes using 50W halogen downlamps, but that would introduce colour
balance problems unless I can track down some tungsten film, which so far
none of the local stores have (getting anything other than the normal
Kodak/Fuji consumer films is like a lottery), or I would need to use colour
correction filters which will kill a couple of stops of light. The other
thought I had was to put a piece of white plastic (eg from an icecream
container), over my flashgun - if I go this route I will need to do a bunch
of test shots to work out the new metering level, and i'm still not real
sure it has dropped the light to a safe level. Finally, I have also
considered making a light box up using daylight flourescent lamps, or a lot
of high intensity white LEDS. I'm not sure how accurate the white balance
would be from these either. As always, budget is tight and so is a big
consideration too. Or maybe I should just tell them that grainy B&W's from
P3200 is what they are getting.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

First off drop the idea of building stuff, too much time gets wasted on
half correct ideas, and many times creates more issues. The best thing you could
build would be a scrim or light panel. If the flashes can be set to bounce use that
feature maybe with a piece of cheap white foam core along side the baby (Maybe get the
mom or dad to hold it).

There are lots of fairly cheap diffusing solutions sold. Like mini light boxes
that fit over the flash head. Typically these units loose you about two stops.
If you use NPH film from Fuji, 35mm should make your prints sharp enough
with reasonably good saturation.You could also use Kodak VC 400 Portra.

Having two identical flash units slaved together and set off by a synch cord is
the best scenario however would involve money spent. You are correct you
don't want to use direct flash certainly never on a baby.
--
LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

In article ,
"Graham Fountain" wrote:

I've taken a number of great shots of my baby, so good that some friends and
some family have asked me to do some similar shots of their kids. Now the
catch is i've mostly taken shots outdoors in open shade, or using 3200 B&W
film when indoors, so I've been able to get away with natural lighting and
bright indoors lighting. My friends however want their shots done in their
home, which isn't as bright as my home, and they want some nice clear colour
shots, which means film much slower than 3200, and some form of additional
lighting.
Now, I have an old flashgun which has a guide no of 15m @ iso 100. My Pentax
MZ60 also has an inbuilt flash, which I believe also has a guide no of 15m @
iso 100. I have tested both these flashes on myself at the sort of distance
that I'd be shooting from, and I find them too bright, so I am very
reluctant to point them toward a baby. I have had a quick look at a few
local camera shops for a lower rated flashgun and can't find one. So I am
puzzled as to what to do about lighting. I thought about making up a couple
of light boxes using 50W halogen downlamps, but that would introduce colour
balance problems unless I can track down some tungsten film, which so far
none of the local stores have (getting anything other than the normal
Kodak/Fuji consumer films is like a lottery), or I would need to use colour
correction filters which will kill a couple of stops of light. The other
thought I had was to put a piece of white plastic (eg from an icecream
container), over my flashgun - if I go this route I will need to do a bunch
of test shots to work out the new metering level, and i'm still not real
sure it has dropped the light to a safe level. Finally, I have also
considered making a light box up using daylight flourescent lamps, or a lot
of high intensity white LEDS. I'm not sure how accurate the white balance
would be from these either. As always, budget is tight and so is a big
consideration too. Or maybe I should just tell them that grainy B&W's from
P3200 is what they are getting.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

First off drop the idea of building stuff, too much time gets wasted on
half correct ideas, and many times creates more issues. The best thing you could
build would be a scrim or light panel. If the flashes can be set to bounce use that
feature maybe with a piece of cheap white foam core along side the baby (Maybe get the
mom or dad to hold it).

There are lots of fairly cheap diffusing solutions sold. Like mini light boxes
that fit over the flash head. Typically these units loose you about two stops.
If you use NPH film from Fuji, 35mm should make your prints sharp enough
with reasonably good saturation.You could also use Kodak VC 400 Portra.

Having two identical flash units slaved together and set off by a synch cord is
the best scenario however would involve money spent. You are correct you
don't want to use direct flash certainly never on a baby.
--
LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

In article ,
"Graham Fountain" wrote:

I've taken a number of great shots of my baby, so good that some friends and
some family have asked me to do some similar shots of their kids. Now the
catch is i've mostly taken shots outdoors in open shade, or using 3200 B&W
film when indoors, so I've been able to get away with natural lighting and
bright indoors lighting. My friends however want their shots done in their
home, which isn't as bright as my home, and they want some nice clear colour
shots, which means film much slower than 3200, and some form of additional
lighting.
Now, I have an old flashgun which has a guide no of 15m @ iso 100. My Pentax
MZ60 also has an inbuilt flash, which I believe also has a guide no of 15m @
iso 100. I have tested both these flashes on myself at the sort of distance
that I'd be shooting from, and I find them too bright, so I am very
reluctant to point them toward a baby. I have had a quick look at a few
local camera shops for a lower rated flashgun and can't find one. So I am
puzzled as to what to do about lighting. I thought about making up a couple
of light boxes using 50W halogen downlamps, but that would introduce colour
balance problems unless I can track down some tungsten film, which so far
none of the local stores have (getting anything other than the normal
Kodak/Fuji consumer films is like a lottery), or I would need to use colour
correction filters which will kill a couple of stops of light. The other
thought I had was to put a piece of white plastic (eg from an icecream
container), over my flashgun - if I go this route I will need to do a bunch
of test shots to work out the new metering level, and i'm still not real
sure it has dropped the light to a safe level. Finally, I have also
considered making a light box up using daylight flourescent lamps, or a lot
of high intensity white LEDS. I'm not sure how accurate the white balance
would be from these either. As always, budget is tight and so is a big
consideration too. Or maybe I should just tell them that grainy B&W's from
P3200 is what they are getting.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

First off drop the idea of building stuff, too much time gets wasted on
half correct ideas, and many times creates more issues. The best thing you could
build would be a scrim or light panel. If the flashes can be set to bounce use that
feature maybe with a piece of cheap white foam core along side the baby (Maybe get the
mom or dad to hold it).

There are lots of fairly cheap diffusing solutions sold. Like mini light boxes
that fit over the flash head. Typically these units loose you about two stops.
If you use NPH film from Fuji, 35mm should make your prints sharp enough
with reasonably good saturation.You could also use Kodak VC 400 Portra.

Having two identical flash units slaved together and set off by a synch cord is
the best scenario however would involve money spent. You are correct you
don't want to use direct flash certainly never on a baby.
--
LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

Graham Fountain wrote:

Now, I have an old flashgun which has a guide no of 15m @ iso 100. My Pentax
MZ60 also has an inbuilt flash, which I believe also has a guide no of 15m @
iso 100. I have tested both these flashes on myself at the sort of distance

If you can find a way to soften the built in flash, then you'll have TTL control
at least. Not perfect, but should result in good exposures ... lighting itself
will be flat to the subject, unfortunately.

Is your flash gun the "AUTO" sort? If so, you should be able to dial it down.
If it is still too bright at a particular setting, just decrease the range
setting further.

that I'd be shooting from, and I find them too bright, so I am very
reluctant to point them toward a baby. I have had a quick look at a few

A couple flash pops is no more injurious to a baby than it is to you...
certainly not to be abused or used too close, but nothing to get too worried about.

Can it be bounced? In any case, for babies, indirect ligthing compliments the
subject in mosts cases (certainly for color). For B&W, a few contrasty shots
can work too...but usually with the light coming from the side ... not from the
camera.

local camera shops for a lower rated flashgun and can't find one. So I am
puzzled as to what to do about lighting. I thought about making up a couple
of light boxes using 50W halogen downlamps, but that would introduce colour
balance problems unless I can track down some tungsten film, which so far
none of the local stores have (getting anything other than the normal
Kodak/Fuji consumer films is like a lottery), or I would need to use colour
correction filters which will kill a couple of stops of light. The other
thought I had was to put a piece of white plastic (eg from an icecream
container), over my flashgun - if I go this route I will need to do a bunch

Yep. I have little AC strobes for backgrounds and they are too bright in some
situations. I use a variety of thin plastic sheets or translucent caps from
various canned good. I use an incident flash meter to set these up and that of
course is the best guarantee of getting the light right.

Go to the local camera shops and look for some old strobes and slaves so you can
have a couple sources of light to work with ... but again an incident flash
meter is the way to assure good exposure.

of test shots to work out the new metering level, and i'm still not real
sure it has dropped the light to a safe level. Finally, I have also
considered making a light box up using daylight flourescent lamps, or a lot
of high intensity white LEDS. I'm not sure how accurate the white balance
would be from these either. As always, budget is tight and so is a big

The LED's should be pretty good colorwise, flourescenets will tend green, even
DL. A magenta filter can compensate for that and megenta filters are often in
the "used" display at the camera store.

http://www.superbrightleds.com/MR16_specs.htm has most of the LED's at above
5000K. Not sure about source or pricing.

LED lighting is becoming an option for digital studio work. The lights are
fairly cool, very white (5000 - 8000K), compact, etc... likewise there are
'banks' of flourescent screw in bulbs that have come on the market (of course
you can correct the color temp in the digital camera in this case).

consideration too. Or maybe I should just tell them that grainy B&W's from
P3200 is what they are getting.

Sure, make it your artistic impression.

Cheers,
Alan

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- [SI rulz] http://www.aliasimages.com/si/rulz.html
-- [SI gallery] www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.

Graham Fountain wrote:

Now, I have an old flashgun which has a guide no of 15m @ iso 100. My Pentax
MZ60 also has an inbuilt flash, which I believe also has a guide no of 15m @
iso 100. I have tested both these flashes on myself at the sort of distance

If you can find a way to soften the built in flash, then you'll have TTL control
at least. Not perfect, but should result in good exposures ... lighting itself
will be flat to the subject, unfortunately.

Is your flash gun the "AUTO" sort? If so, you should be able to dial it down.
If it is still too bright at a particular setting, just decrease the range
setting further.

that I'd be shooting from, and I find them too bright, so I am very
reluctant to point them toward a baby. I have had a quick look at a few

A couple flash pops is no more injurious to a baby than it is to you...
certainly not to be abused or used too close, but nothing to get too worried about.

Can it be bounced? In any case, for babies, indirect ligthing compliments the
subject in mosts cases (certainly for color). For B&W, a few contrasty shots
can work too...but usually with the light coming from the side ... not from the
camera.

local camera shops for a lower rated flashgun and can't find one. So I am
puzzled as to what to do about lighting. I thought about making up a couple
of light boxes using 50W halogen downlamps, but that would introduce colour
balance problems unless I can track down some tungsten film, which so far
none of the local stores have (getting anything other than the normal
Kodak/Fuji consumer films is like a lottery), or I would need to use colour
correction filters which will kill a couple of stops of light. The other
thought I had was to put a piece of white plastic (eg from an icecream
container), over my flashgun - if I go this route I will need to do a bunch

Yep. I have little AC strobes for backgrounds and they are too bright in some
situations. I use a variety of thin plastic sheets or translucent caps from
various canned good. I use an incident flash meter to set these up and that of
course is the best guarantee of getting the light right.

Go to the local camera shops and look for some old strobes and slaves so you can
have a couple sources of light to work with ... but again an incident flash
meter is the way to assure good exposure.

of test shots to work out the new metering level, and i'm still not real
sure it has dropped the light to a safe level. Finally, I have also
considered making a light box up using daylight flourescent lamps, or a lot
of high intensity white LEDS. I'm not sure how accurate the white balance
would be from these either. As always, budget is tight and so is a big

The LED's should be pretty good colorwise, flourescenets will tend green, even
DL. A magenta filter can compensate for that and megenta filters are often in
the "used" display at the camera store.

http://www.superbrightleds.com/MR16_specs.htm has most of the LED's at above
5000K. Not sure about source or pricing.

LED lighting is becoming an option for digital studio work. The lights are
fairly cool, very white (5000 - 8000K), compact, etc... likewise there are
'banks' of flourescent screw in bulbs that have come on the market (of course
you can correct the color temp in the digital camera in this case).

consideration too. Or maybe I should just tell them that grainy B&W's from
P3200 is what they are getting.

Sure, make it your artistic impression.

Cheers,
Alan

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- [SI rulz] http://www.aliasimages.com/si/rulz.html
-- [SI gallery] www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.

"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...
Graham Fountain wrote:
If you can find a way to soften the built in flash, then you'll have TTL
control at least. Not perfect, but should result in good exposures ...
lighting itself will be flat to the subject, unfortunately.
OK, I didn't know the MZ60 had TTL. (Shows how much I know).

Is your flash gun the "AUTO" sort? If so, you should be able to dial it
down. If it is still too bright at a particular setting, just decrease the
range setting further.
Alas no, it has one control - on/off.

A couple flash pops is no more injurious to a baby than it is to you...
certainly not to be abused or used too close, but nothing to get too
worried about.
You are probably right, i'm still reluctant though.

Can it be bounced? In any case, for babies, indirect ligthing compliments
the subject in mosts cases (certainly for color). For B&W, a few
contrasty shots can work too...but usually with the light coming from the
side ... not from the camera.
It doesn't have a tilt head - i've looked at some of these guns in the shops
and drooled, but unfortunately they are way out of my budget. But you've
given me a bit of an idea - with a bit of cable and a hotshoe adapter I
should be able to get my flashgun off-camera, so I should be able to work
something out bounce-wise.

Yep. I have little AC strobes for backgrounds and they are too bright in
some situations. I use a variety of thin plastic sheets or translucent
caps from various canned good. I use an incident flash meter to set these
up and that of course is the best guarantee of getting the light right.
Incident flash meter - another item on the drool list. I was thinking if I
first run off a a roll of film at different F stops to get an idea of
lighting, (ie, shoot a roll of 24 at F2-F22) I should be able to come up
with some settings that will get me close enough when it comes to the real
thing - then if i bracket my shots at +/- 1 stop I should be right.

Go to the local camera shops and look for some old strobes and slaves so
you can have a couple sources of light to work with ... but again an
incident flash meter is the way to assure good exposure.

The LED's should be pretty good colorwise, flourescenets will tend green,
even DL. A magenta filter can compensate for that and megenta filters are
often in the "used" display at the camera store.
Or I could just get them printed at one of the local labs that has a
horrible magenta cast on everything they do :-P

http://www.superbrightleds.com/MR16_specs.htm has most of the LED's at
above 5000K. Not sure about source or pricing.
I do have access to some bright white leds at pretty cheap prices, so I
think this may be one of my better options.

consideration too. Or maybe I should just tell them that grainy B&W's
from P3200 is what they are getting.

Sure, make it your artistic impression.
Since it's just friends and family, and they will pretty much be only paying
to reimburse my costs (ie film + developing), I probably should tell them
what they are getting, rather than give them what they want :-P

Cheers,
Alan
Thanks heaps Alan, you've given me a few more avenues to explore.

"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...
Graham Fountain wrote:
If you can find a way to soften the built in flash, then you'll have TTL
control at least. Not perfect, but should result in good exposures ...
lighting itself will be flat to the subject, unfortunately.
OK, I didn't know the MZ60 had TTL. (Shows how much I know).

Is your flash gun the "AUTO" sort? If so, you should be able to dial it
down. If it is still too bright at a particular setting, just decrease the
range setting further.
Alas no, it has one control - on/off.

A couple flash pops is no more injurious to a baby than it is to you...
certainly not to be abused or used too close, but nothing to get too
worried about.
You are probably right, i'm still reluctant though.

Can it be bounced? In any case, for babies, indirect ligthing compliments
the subject in mosts cases (certainly for color). For B&W, a few
contrasty shots can work too...but usually with the light coming from the
side ... not from the camera.
It doesn't have a tilt head - i've looked at some of these guns in the shops
and drooled, but unfortunately they are way out of my budget. But you've
given me a bit of an idea - with a bit of cable and a hotshoe adapter I
should be able to get my flashgun off-camera, so I should be able to work
something out bounce-wise.

Yep. I have little AC strobes for backgrounds and they are too bright in
some situations. I use a variety of thin plastic sheets or translucent
caps from various canned good. I use an incident flash meter to set these
up and that of course is the best guarantee of getting the light right.
Incident flash meter - another item on the drool list. I was thinking if I
first run off a a roll of film at different F stops to get an idea of
lighting, (ie, shoot a roll of 24 at F2-F22) I should be able to come up
with some settings that will get me close enough when it comes to the real
thing - then if i bracket my shots at +/- 1 stop I should be right.

Go to the local camera shops and look for some old strobes and slaves so
you can have a couple sources of light to work with ... but again an
incident flash meter is the way to assure good exposure.

The LED's should be pretty good colorwise, flourescenets will tend green,
even DL. A magenta filter can compensate for that and megenta filters are
often in the "used" display at the camera store.
Or I could just get them printed at one of the local labs that has a
horrible magenta cast on everything they do :-P

http://www.superbrightleds.com/MR16_specs.htm has most of the LED's at
above 5000K. Not sure about source or pricing.
I do have access to some bright white leds at pretty cheap prices, so I
think this may be one of my better options.

consideration too. Or maybe I should just tell them that grainy B&W's
from P3200 is what they are getting.

Sure, make it your artistic impression.
Since it's just friends and family, and they will pretty much be only paying
to reimburse my costs (ie film + developing), I probably should tell them
what they are getting, rather than give them what they want :-P

Cheers,
Alan
Thanks heaps Alan, you've given me a few more avenues to explore.

On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 12:22:23 GMT, "Graham Fountain"
wrote:

I have tested both these flashes on myself at the sort of distance
that I'd be shooting from, and I find them too bright, so I am very
reluctant to point them toward a baby.

Why point your flash at the baby? All that will give you is direct
light which by definition will give hard shadows and create very flat
looking images. Even a diffuser on the flash itself will do little to
change the apparent size of the light source relative to the baby.
Spend $15, buy a sync cord to move the flash off camera and bounce it
off a ceiling or a wall.

On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 12:22:23 +0000, Graham Fountain wrote:

I've taken a number of great shots of my baby, so good that some friends and
some family have asked me to do some similar shots of their kids. Now the
catch is i've mostly taken shots outdoors in open shade, or using 3200 B&W
film when indoors, so I've been able to get away with natural lighting and
bright indoors lighting. My friends however want their shots done in their
home, which isn't as bright as my home, and they want some nice clear colour
shots, which means film much slower than 3200, and some form of additional
lighting.
Now, I have an old flashgun which has a guide no of 15m @ iso 100. My Pentax
MZ60 also has an inbuilt flash, which I believe also has a guide no of 15m @
iso 100. I have tested both these flashes on myself at the sort of distance
that I'd be shooting from, and I find them too bright, so I am very
reluctant to point them toward a baby. I have had a quick look at a few
local camera shops for a lower rated flashgun and can't find one. So I am
puzzled as to what to do about lighting. I thought about making up a couple
of light boxes using 50W halogen downlamps, but that would introduce colour
balance problems unless I can track down some tungsten film, which so far
none of the local stores have (getting anything other than the normal
Kodak/Fuji consumer films is like a lottery), or I would need to use colour
correction filters which will kill a couple of stops of light. The other
thought I had was to put a piece of white plastic (eg from an icecream
container), over my flashgun - if I go this route I will need to do a bunch
of test shots to work out the new metering level, and i'm still not real
sure it has dropped the light to a safe level. Finally, I have also
considered making a light box up using daylight flourescent lamps, or a lot
of high intensity white LEDS. I'm not sure how accurate the white balance
would be from these either. As always, budget is tight and so is a big
consideration too. Or maybe I should just tell them that grainy B&W's from
P3200 is what they are getting.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Forget about going to all that hassle. Just bounce your flash off a wall
or ceiling.

--
DD
"I have discovered photography. Now I can kill myself."
~ Pablo Picasso