C41 rotary development

Jean-David Beyer wrote:

Not to me. I do not mind if _other people_ want digital, but those that
shifted away from Kodak Elite Fine Art paper means Kodak did not make enough
money to keep making it. So I have to do with something else, and am not
thrilled. I can still get fibre-based paper, and may switch totally to
Ilford's Multigrade IV on the theory that that way I will have only two
boxes of paper instead of 6 to go bad when it gets too hot in my darkroom,
and Ilford may still be big enough to stay in business.

It's changed chemical based photgraphy from a specialty item that every
small town had at least one store and large cities had many, to something
that can only be gotten from a few specialty retailers.

There are still lots of camera stores around, and almost every large
store has some sort of photographic equipment or supplies, but the
comsumables have shifted to batteries, memory cards and inkjet paper.

Sadly to say, IMHO 9/11 had a profound negative effect. While digital
supplies can easily be shipped via air and are not damaged by X-ray or
gamma ray scanners, light sensitive material are and chemicals can no
longer be sent by air mail, checked in baggage etc.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM

Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:

It's changed chemical based photgraphy from a specialty item that every
small town had at least one store and large cities had many, to
something that can only be gotten from a few specialty retailers.

That's for sure. There were two real photo labs in the next town to me, and
one 1-hour one there too. There is a one-hour lab still in my town. There is
also a drug store in this town that will sell 36mm color negative film and
have it processed. And one in the next town. One of the real photo labs also
sold 35mm cameras and darkroom supplies. Both real photo labs are now out of
business. One of the one-hour labs is out of business. And I do not go to
one-hour labs anyway. About 15 miles from here there was a quite good (for
around here) store that had an extensive photography department that had a
good selection of cameras, enlargers, processors, sheet film as well as 120
and 35mm. Fishkin Brothers of Perth Amboy. Fortunately, Calumet and B&H are
still in the wet-process photography business, though their selections are
reduced compared to when I started in the 1970s. I do not look forward to
emulsion making and film and paper coating.

There are still lots of camera stores around, and almost every large
store has some sort of photographic equipment or supplies, but the
comsumables have shifted to batteries, memory cards and inkjet paper.

Sadly to say, IMHO 9/11 had a profound negative effect. While digital
supplies can easily be shipped via air and are not damaged by X-ray or
gamma ray scanners, light sensitive material are and chemicals can no
longer be sent by air mail, checked in baggage etc.

I do not know if 9/11 had much of an effect. I doubt my stuff from Calumet
came by air anyway, and there would be no point in sending stuff by air from
B&H, since they are only about 60 miles from here. They would need to
charter a small plane anyway and that does not make sense. The only
chemistry that B&H won't ship is Kodak Rapid Fixer Part B, and I do not need
that anyway. And Calumet will ship it, so I am not sure what is going on
there. I guess the only "dangerous" stuff I use is glacial acetic acid, and
a gallon goes a long way.

--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
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Jean-David Beyer wrote:
That's for sure. There were two real photo labs in the next town to me, and
one 1-hour one there too. There is a one-hour lab still in my town. There is
also a drug store in this town that will sell 36mm color negative film and
have it processed. And one in the next town. One of the real photo labs also
sold 35mm cameras and darkroom supplies. Both real photo labs are now out of
business. One of the one-hour labs is out of business. And I do not go to
one-hour labs anyway. About 15 miles from here there was a quite good (for
around here) store that had an extensive photography department that had a
good selection of cameras, enlargers, processors, sheet film as well as 120
and 35mm. Fishkin Brothers of Perth Amboy. Fortunately, Calumet and B&H are
still in the wet-process photography business, though their selections are
reduced compared to when I started in the 1970s. I do not look forward to
emulsion making and film and paper coating.

Here it went from 5 stores to 2, one of which is just selling off what
it had 5 years ago. Tel Aviv, which is the BIG city here has none now.
The one really big photo store is still doing a booming digital
business, but I bought the last of a few of their items, which were old
stock.

The one store that has anything has lots of film, but their darkroom
department is two shelves about a meter wide. There is a nice display
case with old cameras, but they are for display, not sale.


I do not know if 9/11 had much of an effect. I doubt my stuff from Calumet
came by air anyway, and there would be no point in sending stuff by air from
B&H, since they are only about 60 miles from here. They would need to
charter a small plane anyway and that does not make sense. The only
chemistry that B&H won't ship is Kodak Rapid Fixer Part B, and I do not need
that anyway. And Calumet will ship it, so I am not sure what is going on
there. I guess the only "dangerous" stuff I use is glacial acetic acid, and
a gallon goes a long way.

It will for imported items, as anything that goes on a commerical flight
is x-rayed, and containers are often gamma-ray scanned. Some of the
courier services don't x-ray all packages, but how long that lasts is
another speculation.

I assume one day, if you want to send film via an airplane you will have
to pay extra for hand inspection and certification of contents.

Film can be shipped by container, but again you will have to make sure
that nowhere along the way it is scanned, and that it goes in the winter
as a summer trip in the hold of a container ship can ruin it.

I was a fan of Edwal FG-7, which last I checked was still made by a
company which bought the name and formula from Falcon who bought it
from Edwal. However the post 9/11 air safety regulations make it a
hazzardous substance so the only way I can get any is to find someone
willing to buy a case, ship it via boat (there is no more surface mail),
and get an import permit for it. I can avoid the import permit by buying
one or two bottles and no more, but it still would have to be "shipped" and
not mailed. :-(

I can only assume that as commercial production of photographic material
and chemicals moves from the U.S. to "botique" producers overseas, it will
get worse.

For example how long will a company continue to import film from eastern
Europe or China if someone does not read the contents declaration, or does
not care, and runs it through a gama ray scanner?

There is an old story here about someone ordering a box of sheet film from
abroad and the customs agent opening the box and looking at each sheet
to make sure it did not have a pornographic image.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM

Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:



I can only assume that as commercial production of photographic material
and chemicals moves from the U.S. to "botique" producers overseas, it will
get worse.

While I was never a fan of VC paper, I think I will have to go with Ilford
Multigrade IV as the least boutique of the manufacturers still in business.
I think I will be able to print on that once I learn how. I do have a VC
cold light head (Zone VI) that can print with pure green all the way to pure
blue. But I will have to calibrate my negatives and the VC head's control
box, and I do not look forward to that.

For example how long will a company continue to import film from eastern
Europe or China if someone does not read the contents declaration, or does
not care, and runs it through a gama ray scanner?

There is an old story here about someone ordering a box of sheet film from
abroad and the customs agent opening the box and looking at each sheet
to make sure it did not have a pornographic image.

That actually happened at a small defense contractor where I once worked. We
needed to X-ray some parts (machined castings) for flaws, and the QC guy
opened the X-ray film to count the sheets and measure their size.

As Ansel Adams once asked, when discussing the latest "progress in
photography, "Why is there so much progress and so little improvement?"

--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
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"Jean-David Beyer" wrote
As Ansel Adams once asked, when discussing the latest "progress in
photography, "Why is there so much progress and so little improvement?"

It is the same everywhere.

Meaningless monkey-motion is often taken as progress.

OTOH: real knowledge only comes from mistakes - to find the
one true path you first have to explore every wrong one,
and there seem to be an infinite number of wrong paths.

Maybe Intelligent Design ["God's great idea": man's great mistake]
and Evolution ["God's great mistakes": man's great idea] _are_ one
and the same.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
http://www.darkroomautomation.com/index2.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com

In article _U93k.903$8q2.402@trnddc02,
Jean-David Beyer wrote:
Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:



I can only assume that as commercial production of photographic material
and chemicals moves from the U.S. to "botique" producers overseas, it will
get worse.

While I was never a fan of VC paper, I think I will have to go with Ilford
Multigrade IV as the least boutique of the manufacturers still in business.

Harman (who own Ilford's wet photography product lines) bought Kentmere
last year and claim they'll keep the Kentmere papers in production.

The Kentmere multigrade paper is, in my opinion, a lot nicer than
Ilford Multigrade.

--
Thor Lancelot Simon
"My guess is that the minimal training typically provided would only
have given the party in question multiple new and elaborate ways to do
something incomprehensibly stupid and dangerous." -Rich Goldstone

Thor Lancelot Simon wrote:
In article _U93k.903$8q2.402@trnddc02, Jean-David Beyer
wrote:
Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:


I can only assume that as commercial production of photographic
material and chemicals moves from the U.S. to "botique" producers
overseas, it will get worse.
While I was never a fan of VC paper, I think I will have to go with
Ilford Multigrade IV as the least boutique of the manufacturers still
in business.

Harman (who own Ilford's wet photography product lines) bought Kentmere
last year and claim they'll keep the Kentmere papers in production.

The Kentmere multigrade paper is, in my opinion, a lot nicer than Ilford
Multigrade.

I wonder about Kentmere. B&H stock it, but Calumet do not. That makes me
worry about how available it will be, even if Harman continue to make it.

I had to give up using Ilford Galerie because no-one around here stocked it.
(Of course, no one around here stocks any wet process stuff except 35mm
color negative film now.) Then I had to give up Oriental Seagull. Then Kodak
quit making any B&W paper, especially Elite Fine Art.

If I must recalibrate all over again, I just want to do it once. So the
question is, can I rely on B&H to keep stocking it for, say, 10 years or more?

I have never used either Ilford Multigrade or Kentmere, I do not have a
prejudice one way or the other, but I worry about the long-term availability
in USA.

--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
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Thor Lancelot Simon wrote:
In article _U93k.903$8q2.402@trnddc02,
Jean-David Beyer wrote:
Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:


I can only assume that as commercial production of photographic material
and chemicals moves from the U.S. to "botique" producers overseas, it will
get worse.
While I was never a fan of VC paper, I think I will have to go with Ilford
Multigrade IV as the least boutique of the manufacturers still in business.

Harman (who own Ilford's wet photography product lines) bought Kentmere
last year and claim they'll keep the Kentmere papers in production.

The Kentmere multigrade paper is, in my opinion, a lot nicer than
Ilford Multigrade.

Kentmere have this to say about development:

"To maximise d. max, grade spacing and tonal rendition, a multicontrast
chemical system such as Kentmere VC Select Plus Developer and Fixer,
especially formulated to enhance variable contrast emulsions'
characteristics, is recommended. Also recommended, in alphabetical order are
Agfa Multicontrast, Champion B&W Multicontrast, Ilford Multigrade, Kodak
Polymax, and Tetenal Variospeed developers, together with their appropriate
fixers. Equivalent products from other manufacturers should give similar
results.

"We do not recommend conventional manual developers, which tend to inhibit
both d. max and contrast."

I would normally use something like Dektol or D-72 (both 1+1) to develop
paper. I have used my version of D-72 which is the same as the original, but
I omit the bromide and use benzotriazole instead. This prevented the "green"
color of Polycontrast Rapid that I have not used in decades, and may no
longer be necessary.

Have you found it necessary to use their recommended developers?

--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
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In article rIE3k.8112$lE3.5293@trnddc05,
Jean-David Beyer wrote:

Kentmere have this to say about development:

"To maximise d. max, grade spacing and tonal rendition, a multicontrast
chemical system such as Kentmere VC Select Plus Developer and Fixer,
especially formulated to enhance variable contrast emulsions'
characteristics, is recommended. Also recommended, in alphabetical order are
Agfa Multicontrast, Champion B&W Multicontrast, Ilford Multigrade, Kodak
Polymax, and Tetenal Variospeed developers, together with their appropriate
fixers. Equivalent products from other manufacturers should give similar
results.

"We do not recommend conventional manual developers, which tend to inhibit
both d. max and contrast."

This is bizarre. Among other minor issues, Polymax paper developer -- as
far as anyone seems to be able to tell -- *is* Ektaflo Type 1, which was
basically liquid Dektol concentrate.

I have had no trouble with the Kentmere paper in Dektol. I have also
used Edwal Ultra Black with good results.

--
Thor Lancelot Simon
"My guess is that the minimal training typically provided would only
have given the party in question multiple new and elaborate ways to do
something incomprehensibly stupid and dangerous." -Rich Goldstone

Kentmere VC Select Plus Developer

Based on nothing more than the name I would say the whole
thing is crap designed to sell overpriced cheesy developer.

The more "Ultra Plus Select Elite Extra Superlative
Reserve" there is in the name the more utterly mundane
the product.

If a country's name includes "Democratic" it is
invariably a dictatorship, includes "Peoples" it
means the people are screwed, "Socialist" and the
populace's basic social needs are not met, and
"Workers Paradise" means dying of black lung
by the age of 30.

A "Superlative Chronometer" keeps worse time than
the watch you got for free with a Time Magazine
subscription.

"Special" attached to the side of a car means
"Stripped: Three in the tree and dog-dish hubcaps".

The "Ultra Plus" model is invariably the bottom of the
product line.

A simple "Plus" means cost-reduced.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
http://www.darkroomautomation.com/index2.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com