Apple makes Macs run Windows XP

wrote:
WinXP running badly is an urban legend on par with 'macs are easier to
use'.

While I like the build quality of most Macs, and repsect the
stability/security of BSD unix underneath an Apple GUI, its still just
a PC. Use the right tool for the job. It might be a mac, it might be a
Dell box, or it might be a PDA.

The irony here is that Apple is now selling Intel based machines that
can run windows -- they're PCs, with a differentiating feature of being
able to run OS/X. Its one thing, for the moment, that Dell can't
compete with.

Agreed, the windows based pcs that give trouble are generally the ones
that the company has bought cheap, they try to run XP with 256mb of
ram, 40 gig harddrives, have Outlook as their email client, and only
allow Internet Explorer for use on the web. All of this is asking for
problems. I got off an old mac a year ago, and besides being able to
run my scanners again (OSX is misserable with even 3 year old hardware
esp Nikon LS2000), I have far less down time with XP.

Tom

I worked in a computer store for many years, and a day didn't pass
without some Winidiot calling or coming in with virus/spyware problems.

Yes I have had problems, one day I installed Win XP, didn't have time
to install apps, my son gets on the computer and in 2 days (had to buy
a new copy of Norton AV). The computer was filled with spyware, I
didn't even want to know where he went on line. Reformamated again,
before I left I had Firefox, Norton, Adaware, and Zone Alarm on the
computer, no problems since (1 year). Just be intellegent with what you
do. Don't let a teenager near the computer! I can see how this can be a
problem, but my current ISP seems more on the ball. My old ISP blamed
it on writing in newsgroups!

Tom

tomm42 wrote:


wrote:
WinXP running badly is an urban legend on par with 'macs are easier to
use'.

While I like the build quality of most Macs, and repsect the
stability/security of BSD unix underneath an Apple GUI, its still just
a PC. Use the right tool for the job. It might be a mac, it might be a
Dell box, or it might be a PDA.

The irony here is that Apple is now selling Intel based machines that
can run windows -- they're PCs, with a differentiating feature of being
able to run OS/X. Its one thing, for the moment, that Dell can't
compete with.

Agreed, the windows based pcs that give trouble are generally the ones
that the company has bought cheap, they try to run XP with 256mb of
ram, 40 gig harddrives, have Outlook as their email client,

So what do you recommend for an email client on an Exchange system?

and only
allow Internet Explorer for use on the web. All of this is asking for
problems.

The big problem with Explorer these days is that the defaults are locked
down so tight that it won't show most Web pages.

I got off an old mac a year ago, and besides being able to
run my scanners again (OSX is misserable with even 3 year old hardware
esp Nikon LS2000), I have far less down time with XP.

Tom

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Rita Ä Berkowitz wrote:
wrote:

The irony here is that Apple is now selling Intel based machines that
can run windows -- they're PCs, with a differentiating feature of
being able to run OS/X. Its one thing, for the moment, that Dell can't
compete with.


Yeah, I just love it! All these hardcore Mac users will have to make up
new
excuses as to why an Apple is superior to a PC. Poetic Justice!

I don't understand why people feel that Dell needs to "compete" with
anyone?
A Dell workstation is most likely on every government desk and in the field
from DOD to DHS. Apple is nothing more than a gnat buzzing around Michael
Dell's ear. If this gnat makes too much noise Dell will swat it.


We bought 21,000 Dell desktops and laptops in the last 18 months and
sourcing is considering switching to HP because our Optiplex GX620s and
Latitude D610s are blue screening at an alarming rate, about 1 in 5
during this deployment. Pathetic.

Greg
--
"All my time I spent in heaven
Revelries of dance and wine
Waking to the sound of laughter
Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons

Rita Ä Berkowitz wrote:
Peter A. Stavrakoglou wrote:

BINGO!!! We have a winner! That's why picking the *PROPER*
hardware and paying a small premium upfront is key for any OS to run
properly and reliably. The people that use Supermicro and Intel
based systems are immune
to the majority of these problems we hear whined about.


You're not implying that AMD based systems are prone to problems that
Intel systems are not, are you? This is not meant to start a flame
war but specifically noting *Intel* based systems seems to imply that
anything else will lead to problems. AMD systems are just as stable
as Intel systems.


Hell no! Why would I have to make that implication when the Intel
processor
is the number one choice of knowledgeable system builders and integrators?
Granted, the AMD is *ALMOST* up to Intel in performance and reliability
standards for mission critical applications, but has a long way to go
before
it will even be considered a contender in the professional IT world.


You just lost what little credibility you had there. AMD 64 bit
processors have blown away Intel processors in the professional IT world.

Greg

--
"All my time I spent in heaven
Revelries of dance and wine
Waking to the sound of laughter
Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons

Rita Ä Berkowitz wrote:



It's just monkey-see-monkey-do syndrome that is parroted from one clueless
person to the next. But, I do agree with you that there are massive
amounts
of money to be made from all of this artificial paranoia. Usually you will
see a person that has a vested interest in the competition do their best to
try to tear down MS.



I have a vested interest in making sure MS products work.

We have 12 full time deskside techs for 600 PC users backed by a team of
6 deskside engineers at HQ backed by a team of dedicated TAMS at
Microsoft and Dell. And we have only one full time deskside tech for 80
Mac users, and he ends up helping with the PCs, and we have no deskside
engineers at HQ for Macs, and no special deals with Apple.

Greg

--
"All my time I spent in heaven
Revelries of dance and wine
Waking to the sound of laughter
Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons

"Rita Ä Berkowitz" ritaberk2O04 @aol.com wrote in message
...
G.T. wrote:

I have a vested interest in making sure MS products work.

Once properly configured, MS products are so reliable that your techs will
think they are the Maytag man catching ZZZZ everyday.

We have 12 full time deskside techs for 600 PC users backed by a team
of 6 deskside engineers at HQ backed by a team of dedicated TAMS at
Microsoft and Dell. And we have only one full time deskside tech for
80 Mac users, and he ends up helping with the PCs, and we have no
deskside engineers at HQ for Macs, and no special deals with Apple.

Fair enough. Out of the 12 of you what is really the problem with the
21,000 Dells you guys have?

I am no longer one of the 12 as I am now an internal customer of local
deskside support. Me and my two current co-workers are responsible for our
servers, on-air devices and edit stations.

I'm sure one of you came up with the answer
other than "it's Dell junk and we can't get it to work."

Dell has just been replacing them and has been examining the ones we've sent
back. Don't know yet what the RCA is.

Greg

In article ,
Callan Browne wrote:

William Davis wrote:
Well, the primary point seems to be that in a year or so, Macs will be
able to run virtually ANY software. While Windows users will still only
be able to run Windows Apps.

Not earth shaking, but quite nice for us Apple loyalists.

Plus it's going to put a LOT of pressure Microsoft after just announcing
that VISTA is delayed yet again. If they don't watch out, they'll lose a
solid sliver of market share this holiday buying season when people
figure out they can buy another PC and run most stuff - or buy a MAC and
run anything they like.



I Installed Mac OS-X on my Intel P4-3.4GHz Machine, all went smooth but
totally useless, so why bother paying for overpriced apple hardware when
Intel gear works fine?

Look hard enough in bittorrent and you'll find the MAC OS-X download for
x86 processors... if you really wanted to.

And why run Windows on a Mac anyway? your giving away the only edge by
allowing spyware and viruses into the machine.

Apple loyalists turn sell outs?

Try and run any of the latest games on your Mac as well, good luck to you.
There will be no pressure or market share lost by delaying an OS that
isn't finished.

- Callan

Actually, I can't think of anything I'd LESS rather do than play the
"latest games" on my Mac.

I'm a business person. I don't do games. My 13 year old does games, but
he prefers them on his PSP.

Don't read me wrong. I completely understand the great number of
high-performance gamers in their 30's and above.

I just don't conform to the lifestyle profile you do. Anymore than you
conform to mine.

Which is, perhaps, the central point here.

Arguing with anyone that their approach to their computing needs is
"wrong" is ALWAYS more an expression of ego than one of sense.

It's like telling Elton John he's an idiot for playing a Baldwin Piano
because Bosendorfers or a Steinways are better.

His reasons for playing what he plays has amazingly little with what
anyone else THINKS he should use and everything to do with his unique
circumstances. (Primarily that Baldwin will PAY him large sums to play
their pianos and make absolutely sure the piano on stage is "tweeked" to
perfection to his playing requirements.

My reasons for using Macs are twofold. I started with them early so I
know the basic stuff like the back of my hand. (Just like many PC
people) And I have a needed application (Final Cut Pro) that's key to my
professional life and has happily become a leader in my areas of
business.

So nothing else really matters.

I saw the announcement of dual-boot as an interesting thing. Sometime
next year I'll have "access" to more software than I do today. But if I
choose to use PC stuff, I suppose I'll also have to spend an
uncomfortable amount of time learning the "other" OS and all that
anti-virus crap that I've never had do deal with.


Win some, lose some.

Just like life!

Since this is a photo group, let's twist the discussion it back on topic
and wonder if the Aperature development team does something similar to
what the FCP team did, building more and superior features into their
implementation of the software tool, so that in places like Ad Agencies
where Macs are tremendously strong - Mac photo retuouching starts to
catch on and becomes a solid "standard" just like FCP has in the video
editing relm.

Perhaps in a couple of years, that may motivate serious photogs to buy
Dual-boot Macs to get access to whatever is unique in Aperature, but
unabailable on the PCs.

Apple, unlike MS seems to have a pretty strong culture of cutting edge
R&D.

And stranger things have happened.

Interesting speculation, anyway.

"Rita Ä Berkowitz" ritaberk2O04 @aol.com wrote in message
...
G.T. wrote:

We bought 21,000 Dell desktops and laptops in the last 18 months and
sourcing is considering switching to HP because our Optiplex GX620s
and Latitude D610s are blue screening at an alarming rate, about 1 in
5 during this deployment. Pathetic.

Let me guess, you are using the 620s with the ultra small chassis?

Yes, and I absolutely love the form factor.

If these
are the ones than I agree with you since these are dogs and suffer heat
related problems as you are experiencing, especially with the power
supply.
Keep them cool and you won't have a single issue.

Thanks, I'll pass that along to my co-workers.

As for HP, don't think
they will be any better since I've seen some real dogs from HP as well.
Seriously, if you bought 21,000 of these things I'm sure you have an
on-site
service contract and they will be replaced next day. Customers as large
as
you will have Dell bending over backwards in 24-hours or less to rectify
any
problems you have.

We already switched our PC-based servers from Dell to Compaq. Mostly for
the better remote management features.


Since you are a company that has the potential to buy in decent quantity I
would have your IT/purchasing dept contact a HP rep and have them send
over
ten boxes for you to evaluate. Yes, Dell and HP do this if you can prove
to
them that you have the ability to purchase in quantity.

As for the laptops, I find it hard to believe you are having issues with
them. Again, put in a service request with your tag number and get the
damn
things repaired or replaced.


Actually we're having more problems with the D610s than we are the desktops.
As a favor to a VP here who doesn't want to have his laptop re-imaged or
replaced by deskside support I am currently trying to troubleshoot a Stop
0x000000D1 DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL bluescreen for him. Most likely
culprit on XP is either USB-related or memory-related. Just started looking
into it last night.

Greg

Supposedly there soon will be a version of VMWare or something similar
that runs on OSX and allows running Windows (and/or Linux, or DOS, ...)
at the same time side by side with OSX.

-Michael