Speeed Graphic and the Hindenburg

Hi:

I teach photography and U.S. History at a high school in Washington
State, USA. This week, I had a lesson on photojournalism and, in one
of the videos I used, there was talk of the photography of the
Hindenburg disaster.

Even casual photographic history fans are familiar with this event,
where the photographer got off four shots in something like 40 seconds
using a Speed Graphic.

Anyhow, I wanted to show the kids exactly what this entailed so I
brought my Crown Graphic and a couple of holders to give a
demonstration. Now, I basically take landscape shots so I don't have
much experience in handling a Crown Graphic quickly but, even with some
embarrassing fumbling and jamming the slide, I got the four shots off
in about 90 seconds. I let a couple of kids give it a try and one of
the kids did it in about 70 seconds.

Now, I'm not saying that the photographer in question did not take
those photos that fast but I'm wondering if he did it with standard
holders. I'm thinking Grafmatic (if they existed in 1937) or film pack.
I could see getting off lots of shots quickly with film pack- pull the
paper, recock shoot and do it again. I could go through all 12 (16?)
shots in the pack fairly quickly.

So.... Does anyone know if that photographer really used standard film
holders?

raoul

In article ,
raoul wrote:

Now, I'm not saying that the photographer in question did not take
those photos that fast but I'm wondering if he did it with standard
holders. I'm thinking Grafmatic (if they existed in 1937) or film pack.
I could see getting off lots of shots quickly with film pack- pull the
paper, recock shoot and do it again. I could go through all 12 (16?)
shots in the pack fairly quickly.

So.... Does anyone know if that photographer really used standard film
holders?

Almost certainly not. Why would a press photographer do so, when film
packs, Grafmatics, and bag-mags were all readily available?

--
Thor Lancelot Simon

"The inconsistency is startling, though admittedly, if consistency is to be
abandoned or transcended, there is no problem." - Noam Chomsky

raoul wrote:
Hi:

I teach photography and U.S. History at a high school in Washington
State, USA. This week, I had a lesson on photojournalism and, in one
of the videos I used, there was talk of the photography of the
Hindenburg disaster.

Even casual photographic history fans are familiar with this event,
where the photographer got off four shots in something like 40 seconds
using a Speed Graphic.

Anyhow, I wanted to show the kids exactly what this entailed so I
brought my Crown Graphic and a couple of holders to give a
demonstration. Now, I basically take landscape shots so I don't have
much experience in handling a Crown Graphic quickly but, even with some
embarrassing fumbling and jamming the slide, I got the four shots off
in about 90 seconds. I let a couple of kids give it a try and one of
the kids did it in about 70 seconds.

Now, I'm not saying that the photographer in question did not take
those photos that fast but I'm wondering if he did it with standard
holders. I'm thinking Grafmatic (if they existed in 1937) or film pack.
I could see getting off lots of shots quickly with film pack- pull the
paper, recock shoot and do it again. I could go through all 12 (16?)
shots in the pack fairly quickly.

So.... Does anyone know if that photographer really used standard film
holders?

I do not really know, but I remember reading that he shot only one film in
each holder so he would not risk double exposures, and dropped the exposed
ones on the ground. I infer that he did use standard holders.

I am pretty sure GraphMatics were available then, but I am not sure who
used them. I have a bunch and they are way more complicated (internally)
than normal Lisco type film holders, and in a high pressure situation I
would not risk using them.

--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
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I have no idea what the photographer used though I think Grafmatics and film
packs were commonly used by photo jopurnalists back then to make a series
of photographs very quickly. However, I did wonder whether when you and
your students were trying this you were using self-cocking shutters. I've
owned several old lenses with self-cocking shutters and they would have
saved the Hindenburg photographer quite a bit of time.

"raoul" wrote in message
...
Hi:

I teach photography and U.S. History at a high school in Washington
State, USA. This week, I had a lesson on photojournalism and, in one
of the videos I used, there was talk of the photography of the
Hindenburg disaster.

Even casual photographic history fans are familiar with this event,
where the photographer got off four shots in something like 40 seconds
using a Speed Graphic.

Anyhow, I wanted to show the kids exactly what this entailed so I
brought my Crown Graphic and a couple of holders to give a
demonstration. Now, I basically take landscape shots so I don't have
much experience in handling a Crown Graphic quickly but, even with some
embarrassing fumbling and jamming the slide, I got the four shots off
in about 90 seconds. I let a couple of kids give it a try and one of
the kids did it in about 70 seconds.

Now, I'm not saying that the photographer in question did not take
those photos that fast but I'm wondering if he did it with standard
holders. I'm thinking Grafmatic (if they existed in 1937) or film pack.
I could see getting off lots of shots quickly with film pack- pull the
paper, recock shoot and do it again. I could go through all 12 (16?)
shots in the pack fairly quickly.

So.... Does anyone know if that photographer really used standard film
holders?

raoul

"Thor Lancelot Simon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
raoul wrote:

So.... Does anyone know if that photographer really used standard film
holders?

Almost certainly not. Why would a press photographer do so, when film
packs, Grafmatics, and bag-mags were all readily available?

Presume nothing, Sir. Grafmatics were not particularly popular with the
press. It was a device that the more enlightened and wealthy enterprises
supported. Most press work was still done with dual film holders.
Photography's tactic then was to get a shot, develop it and print it wet.

We would have to dig a little deeper to find whether the particular
photographer used the Grafmatic. We cannot generalize in this case.

"Shelley" wrote in message
news:eR1Pd.19284$uc.14371@trnddc08...
I have no idea what the photographer used though I think Grafmatics and
film
packs were commonly used by photo jopurnalists back then to make a series
of photographs very quickly. [...]

Perhaps and only when they could anticipate that they would need to make
rapid pictures. The Hindenberg action was supposed to be as fast as a barge
docking in an upstream current; the photogs were probably using standard
holders.

"raoul" wrote

photography of the Hindenburg disaster ... the photographer
got off four shots in something like 40 seconds using a
Speed Graphic ... I let a couple of kids give it a try and one of
the kids did it in about 70 seconds.

Now, I'm not saying that the photographer in question did not take
those photos that fast but I'm wondering if he did it with standard
holders.

Why not? A kid did it stone cold in 70. I'm no maven, though I do
take 4x5 point-'n-shoots, and I managed 50 seconds.

If I did this for a living, I'd say 40 seconds was slow -- but maybe
he dropped the holder a few times.

People were just as smart and just as skilled 10,000 years ago, not to
mention a mere hundred.

But I wasn't there and I have _no_ idea what the photographer used.
The negatives may still be extant and they would settle the issue.

Let your 70 second Wunderkind have a weekend to practice and see
what he can do.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

"Robert Feinman" wrote in message
...

Press photographers in the 1930's generally used film pack. This was
8 or so sheets in a metal holder.

Talking out your butt, perhaps? They were 6-film packs, and I tell you they
didn't use them very much at all. What do you know that I don't?

I doubt any press photographers used plain double sheet holders.
They are bulky, need to be reloaded and require to much fussing
between shots.

Impressionistic, seat-of-the-pants bull****.

raoul wrote:

Even casual photographic history fans are familiar with this event,
where the photographer got off four shots in something like 40 seconds
using a Speed Graphic.

There were more than one photographer. Possibly one got off four in 40
seconds.

So.... Does anyone know if that photographer really used standard film
holders?

In "The History of Photography" by Beaumont Newhall, Newhall describes the
situation.

Chance often gives the news photographers their oppor-
tunity, yet great news photographs are not acciden-
tly made. Twenty-two photographers, representing
New York and Philadelphia newspapers, were gather-
ed at Lakhurst, N. J., on May 6, 1937, for a routine
assignment: the dirigible _Hindenberg_ was due, and al-
though it was the airship's eleventh transatlantic cross-
ing, the event was still considered newsworthy. At
dusk the great silver giant sailed majestically in from
the Atlantic, and the cameramen were preparing to
compose "art shots" for the feature editors when sud-
denly flames shot out from the hull. In forty-seven
seconds the great dirigible lay on the ground, a mass of
twisted flaming wreckage. In those forty-seven seconds,
every one of those photographers produced pictures
that are still memorable. Jack Snyder of the Philadel-
phia _Record_ said,

I've been carrying my camera around for sixteen years,
but I never got an opportunity for really good pictures
before. I waited for hours for the Hindenberg in a
pouring driving rain, as I wanted to get a close-up. I
thought, "I'll get close to the mooring mast to see her
tied up." Then I heard a crackling over my head, a
sort of roaring crackle, and then W-H-W_A-M. There
was a terrible flame and the heat singed my hair.

He rushed for shelter, but not before he had clicked
his shutter. Another photographer worked so fast that
he threw the film holders on the ground at his feet after
exposing only one of the two films which each con-
tained, for fear that in his excitement he might make a
double exposure. A messenger collected the holders;
they were flown to New York. The metropolitan news-
papers, all of them, told the story of the tragedy not in
words but in pictures, which were often enlarged half
a page in size. The _New York World-Telegram_ carried
twenty-one photographs; the _New York Post_ had
seven pages of pictures, the _Daily Mirror_, nine. Never
had a disaster been so covered by photography.


--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A Registered Machine 241939.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
^^-^^ 14:45:00 up 22 days, 23:00, 3 users, load average: 2.13, 2.18, 2.13

jjs john@xstafford.net wrote:
: "Robert Feinman" wrote in message
: ...

: Press photographers in the 1930's generally used film pack. This was
: 8 or so sheets in a metal holder.

: Talking out your butt, perhaps? They were 6-film packs, and I tell you they
: didn't use them very much at all. What do you know that I don't?

I've got four myself and I never use them. A better name for them is gouge-o-matic. :-)

I used to think that the press photographers used the graphmatics until I got a book
about WeeGee. One of the many photographs in the book was of him sitting at his mobile
office (trunk of his car) and you can plainly see the hundreds of two sided film holders
that he had stored in boxes.


: I doubt any press photographers used plain double sheet holders.
: They are bulky, need to be reloaded and require to much fussing
: between shots.

: Impressionistic, seat-of-the-pants bull****.



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