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Why does a flash cause rainbow stripes in my digital photos?



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 11th 14, 05:23 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,comp.mobile.android
Savageduck[_3_]
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Posts: 16,487
Default Why does a flash cause rainbow stripes in my digital photos?

On 2014-12-11 15:26:32 +0000, "Danny D." said:

After dropping the phone down a cliff (it was either the phone
or the kid I was belaying, and it wasn't an easy choice), the
flash has stripes in it every time it's activated.

Here's a picture snapped just now for alt.home.repair for
preparing the gutters for the storm in California right now:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7521/1...465140f4_c.jpg

The stripes seem to be in the longitudinal direction (widest):
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7498/1...3c90f0c9_b.jpg

But, the pictures are fine when I don't have a need for flash:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7511/1...49673dcb_b.jpg

Can you give me some background on what is happening and why?


If the saga of the dropped phone is a report of an actual event, then I
would say that there is some internal damage to the camera and/or its
circuits/processor. I doubt that what we are seeing with that first
shot has anything to do with the flash, but everything to do with
internal electronic damage.

This raises the question; WTF were you doing with a phone while engaged
in the far more important task of belaying a kid, on what we are led to
believe was a climb of sorts?
That seems to be the real issue here. It is a matter of cause and
resulting effect. We know the cause, you dropped the phone, the
resulting effect is a questionably functioning camera.

My suggestion for a fix is going to depend on several factors:
1: How new is the phone?
2: Is it still under warranty, or are you carrying insurance?
3: Who is your cell service carrier?

Subsequent recommendations:
1: Have the phone repaired/replaced under warranty/insurance.
2: Buy a new phone, or live with the questionable camera/phone, and
don't use the flash.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #2  
Old December 11th 14, 05:44 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,comp.mobile.android
Savageduck[_3_]
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Posts: 16,487
Default Why does a flash cause rainbow stripes in my digital photos?

On 2014-12-11 16:26:29 +0000, "Danny D." said:

Savageduck wrote, on Thu, 11 Dec 2014 08:23:07 -0800:

If the saga of the dropped phone is a report of an actual event,


It's not. It's just that the phone is 3 years old, Samsung Galaxy S3,
and it has been dropped a zillion times. But, I don't know actually
*what* specifically caused the rainbow stripes.

They seem to come and go, and mostly they seem to come when the
battery is low (but not always).

I can't be the only one on the planet with this particular problem,
so, that's why I am asking around.

I'm curious *what* makes those rainbow stripes, but only when the
flash is operating. This seems odd, because, without flash, the
pictures are fine, yet - thinking about it - the flash itself has
NOTHING to do with the picture taking operation.

So that's why it's weird.


To me it looks like a corrupted file issue. If that is the case it is
probably the damaged camera circuit writing the corrupted file only
when the flash fires.

If the phone is 3+ years old and you need a camera with flash, then the
time has come to replace it. If the phone is functioning, and you can
live without the flash, then carry on using it until it dies.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #3  
Old December 11th 14, 06:49 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,comp.mobile.android
Martin Brown
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Posts: 821
Default Why does a flash cause rainbow stripes in my digital photos?

On 11/12/2014 16:44, Savageduck wrote:
On 2014-12-11 16:26:29 +0000, "Danny D." said:

Savageduck wrote, on Thu, 11 Dec 2014 08:23:07 -0800:

If the saga of the dropped phone is a report of an actual event,


It's not. It's just that the phone is 3 years old, Samsung Galaxy S3,
and it has been dropped a zillion times. But, I don't know actually
*what* specifically caused the rainbow stripes.

They seem to come and go, and mostly they seem to come when the
battery is low (but not always).

I can't be the only one on the planet with this particular problem,
so, that's why I am asking around.

I'm curious *what* makes those rainbow stripes, but only when the
flash is operating. This seems odd, because, without flash, the
pictures are fine, yet - thinking about it - the flash itself has
NOTHING to do with the picture taking operation.

So that's why it's weird.


To me it looks like a corrupted file issue. If that is the case it is
probably the damaged camera circuit writing the corrupted file only when
the flash fires.


No. It is the analogue readout amplifier seeing some of the AC current
from the circuit that steps up the flash voltage. The connector(s) or
decoupling capacitor has sustained damage.

If the defect pattern is reproducible it can be fixed with a dark frame
subtraction but I think the OP is out of luck.

Whole lines of the image are mangled to varying degrees and worse in
dark conditions when the gain is right at maximum. Data corruption of a
JPEG file trashes 8x8 blocks as the minimum. Usually the image is OK up
to some point and then goes haywire. This was a failure in data
acquisition rather than in post processing. Demosaicing did it no
favours but the damage was already done by that stage.

If the phone is 3+ years old and you need a camera with flash, then the
time has come to replace it. If the phone is functioning, and you can
live without the flash, then carry on using it until it dies.



--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #4  
Old December 12th 14, 09:14 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,comp.mobile.android
tlvp
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Posts: 13
Default Why does a flash cause rainbow stripes in my digital photos?

On Thu, 11 Dec 2014 16:26:29 +0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote:

They seem to come and go, and mostly they seem to come when the
battery is low (but not always).


Are they more visible in low light (at high ISO/ASA numbers) and less so in
good (and lower ISO/ASA numbers)? If so, it's a light amplifier noise
problem (the mono-pixel-thick lines of single colors -- R, G, or B -- are
what suggest that etiology to me). HTH. Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.
  #5  
Old December 13th 14, 12:20 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,comp.mobile.android
Fred McKenzie
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Posts: 214
Default Why does a flash cause rainbow stripes in my digital photos?

In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:

On 11/12/2014 16:44, Savageduck wrote:
On 2014-12-11 16:26:29 +0000, "Danny D." said:

Savageduck wrote, on Thu, 11 Dec 2014 08:23:07 -0800:

If the saga of the dropped phone is a report of an actual event,

It's not. It's just that the phone is 3 years old, Samsung Galaxy S3,
and it has been dropped a zillion times. But, I don't know actually
*what* specifically caused the rainbow stripes.

They seem to come and go, and mostly they seem to come when the
battery is low (but not always).

I can't be the only one on the planet with this particular problem,
so, that's why I am asking around.

I'm curious *what* makes those rainbow stripes, but only when the
flash is operating. This seems odd, because, without flash, the
pictures are fine, yet - thinking about it - the flash itself has
NOTHING to do with the picture taking operation.

So that's why it's weird.


To me it looks like a corrupted file issue. If that is the case it is
probably the damaged camera circuit writing the corrupted file only when
the flash fires.


No. It is the analogue readout amplifier seeing some of the AC current
from the circuit that steps up the flash voltage. The connector(s) or
decoupling capacitor has sustained damage.


That makes sense. A freshly charged battery acts like a capacitor. I
was thinking it might be a bad cell in the battery, but a damaged
capacitor seems more likely to be the problem. (Perhaps it is made
worse by the age of the battery?)

A damaged circuit board would likely be repaired by replacement, if
parts are still available for a 3 year old phone. Taking a chance on it
being a defective battery could be a wast of money.

Unless you have access to a phone that uses the same battery, getting
another phone may be the best option.

Fred
  #6  
Old December 13th 14, 03:40 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,comp.mobile.android
tlvp
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Posts: 13
Default Why does a flash cause rainbow stripes in my digital photos?

On Fri, 12 Dec 2014 19:55:52 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:

"tlvp" ... [ ... pointless babble snipped ... ]


I'm not into the sort of undocumented debating you seem to enjoy.

Cheers, -- tlvp.
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.
  #7  
Old December 13th 14, 11:18 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,comp.mobile.android
tlvp
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Posts: 13
Default Why does a flash cause rainbow stripes in my digital photos?

On Sat, 13 Dec 2014 15:00:30 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:

"tlvp" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 12 Dec 2014 19:55:52 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:

"tlvp" ... [ ... pointless babble snipped ... ]


I'm not into the sort of undocumented debating you seem to enjoy.


You never could bull**** and lie your way out of a wet paper bag.


Exactly. Bull****ting and lying may be your way, but it ain't mine :-) .

Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.
  #8  
Old December 15th 14, 09:38 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,comp.mobile.android
Martin Brown
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Posts: 821
Default Why does a flash cause rainbow stripes in my digital photos?

On 12/12/2014 08:14, tlvp wrote:
On Thu, 11 Dec 2014 16:26:29 +0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote:

They seem to come and go, and mostly they seem to come when the
battery is low (but not always).


Are they more visible in low light (at high ISO/ASA numbers) and less so in
good (and lower ISO/ASA numbers)? If so, it's a light amplifier noise


Basically the right queation to ask and on the face of it supported by
the fact that the colour ripple is much less on a white background.

problem (the mono-pixel-thick lines of single colors -- R, G, or B -- are
what suggest that etiology to me). HTH. Cheers, -- tlvp


Agreed. The harder bit to explain is how it transpires that the readout
problem can generate saturated red or blue. I hadn't really thought
about how the readout was implemented on a colour Bayer array before but
had always assumed that whole lines were read out and so would have
expected cyan or yellow lines if an individual amplifier went bad.

This primary colour linear single pixel fault tends to suggest that the
array is actually read with dedicated readout for each colour component.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #9  
Old December 15th 14, 10:48 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,comp.mobile.android
Martin Brown
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Posts: 821
Default Why does a flash cause rainbow stripes in my digital photos?

On 15/12/2014 09:09, Rod Speed wrote:


"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
On 12/12/2014 08:14, tlvp wrote:
On Thu, 11 Dec 2014 16:26:29 +0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote:

They seem to come and go, and mostly they seem to come when the
battery is low (but not always).

Are they more visible in low light (at high ISO/ASA numbers) and less
so in
good (and lower ISO/ASA numbers)? If so, it's a light amplifier noise


Basically the right queation to ask and on the face of it supported by
the fact that the colour ripple is much less on a white background.

problem (the mono-pixel-thick lines of single colors -- R, G, or B --
are
what suggest that etiology to me). HTH. Cheers, -- tlvp


Agreed. The harder bit to explain is how it transpires that the
readout problem can generate saturated red or blue. I hadn't really
thought about how the readout was implemented on a colour Bayer array
before but had always assumed that whole lines were read out and so
would have expected cyan or yellow lines if an individual amplifier
went bad.

This primary colour linear single pixel fault tends to suggest that
the array is actually read with dedicated readout for each colour
component.


The lines on the first photo are a lot wider than a single pixel.


How typical! You are just as clueless and wilfully ignorant as ever.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #10  
Old December 17th 14, 03:13 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Sandman
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Posts: 5,467
Default Why does a flash cause rainbow stripes in my digital photos?

In article , Whisky-dave wrote:

Rod Speed:
"tlvp" wrote in message
...


"tlvp" ... [ ... pointless babble snipped ... ]

tlvp:
I'm not into the sort of undocumented debating you seem to
enjoy.


Rod Speed:
You never could bull**** and lie your way out of a wet paper bag.


Unlike certain others that, can lie, have, and do bull****
themselves out of many situations Of course the honest don't use
those skills even if they have them.


Unlike you, who bull**** and lie and never get out of any situations.


--
Sandman[.net]
 




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