dSLR Photographer's-Mental-Lag

[typo correction]

I've been noticing a quite interesting pattern over the last three decades.
It seems that the most innovative features always appear on P&S camera's
first, film & digital. Only years later do d/SLR owners finally wake-up and
decide they not only want but NEED those features too.

Examples:

Auto-focus first appeared on P&S film cameras. / dSLR owner's now can't
live without it.

Live-View LCD display. / dSLR owner's can't live without it once they
discover its many benefits. Even better if their LCD display is
articulated, opening up many more photography options that they didn't
previously know exist.

Silent Operation / Well, they'll never get this. But they keep trying to
get their cameras quieter. There's just so much you can do to isolate the
noise from that slow slapping mirror and archaic focal-plane shutter that
doesn't move faster than 1/250 of a second over their sensor. They pride
themselves on buying the quietest dSLRs they can find, never realizing that
all P&S cameras are totally silent if you mute the unneeded sound-effects
using a menu option.

Live Histograms / Many wish they could find a way to get this if it's not
already in their dSLR's much-wanted Live View feed.

Shutter-Speed Preview that exists in nearly all P&S cameras' EVF/LCD
displays. / They don't even know what this is, they're forever calling it
viewfinder-lag in their ignorant error, but many want it once they
understand what it's for and how to use it.

Built-in flash on P&S film and digital cameras came first. / They love the
convenience if their dSLR now has one. Even choosing dSLR models based on
their built-in flash output.

Video modes first appeared in P&S digital cameras. / The most expensive pro
models of dSLRs must now have it.

Smaller and lighter cameras. / They keep trying!

Long zoom lenses with wide aperture. / They wish for this all the time so
they don't have to change lenses so often, while always busy missing shots
and getting dust on the sensor, not finding out that all their images are
ruined until they get home. They'll never get the large apertures at long
zoom lengths that can be designed for P&S cameras. Envy doesn't even begin
to describe how this makes them feel and act.

These are just of the few of many features that first appeared on P&S
camera models that dSLR owners either hope to have one day or MUST have
now. P&S cameras will always be at the forefront of innovation and adapting
to more myriad shooting styles and possibilities. It's been this way for
decades.

You'd think that with them wanting so many features for the last several
decades that are already on P&S cameras, film and digital, they'd try
harder in finding those P&S cameras today that rival the images from their
dSLRs. Many P&S cameras do just that, for a long time now.

Oh well. As has been said time and time again, dSLR owners are none too
bright. I guess that's what makes them dSLR owners.

"Re AL Ity" wrote in message
...
[typo correction]

[post correction]


dwight

"Re AL Ity" wrote in message
...
[typo correction]

I've been noticing a quite interesting pattern over the last three
decades.
It seems that the most innovative features always appear on P&S camera's
first, film & digital. Only years later do d/SLR owners finally wake-up
and
decide they not only want but NEED those features too.

Examples:

Auto-focus first appeared on P&S film cameras. / dSLR owner's now can't
live without it.

Don't need but it's handy.


Live-View LCD display. / dSLR owner's can't live without it once they
discover its many benefits. Even better if their LCD display is
articulated, opening up many more photography options that they didn't
previously know exist.

Don't need and don't use so that's blown that theory out of the water.

Silent Operation / Well, they'll never get this. But they keep trying to
get their cameras quieter. There's just so much you can do to isolate the
noise from that slow slapping mirror and archaic focal-plane shutter that
doesn't move faster than 1/250 of a second over their sensor. They pride
themselves on buying the quietest dSLRs they can find, never realizing
that
all P&S cameras are totally silent if you mute the unneeded sound-effects
using a menu option.

Again, not a necessity. In fact there is a certain satisfaction of hearing
the shutter and mirror after pressing the button and I prefer it to a
"silent" camera (or one with "toy like" sound effects).

Live Histograms / Many wish they could find a way to get this if it's not
already in their dSLR's much-wanted Live View feed.

Nope. Never found the need. A skilled photographer shouldn't need this
facility.

Shutter-Speed Preview that exists in nearly all P&S cameras' EVF/LCD
displays. / They don't even know what this is, they're forever calling it
viewfinder-lag in their ignorant error, but many want it once they
understand what it's for and how to use it.

Why? I have all the info I need in the "real" viewfinder, instantly and
with no lag.

Built-in flash on P&S film and digital cameras came first. / They love the
convenience if their dSLR now has one. Even choosing dSLR models based on
their built-in flash output.

Nope. Built in flash is just a toy. Serious photographers use a flash gun.

Video modes first appeared in P&S digital cameras. / The most expensive
pro
models of dSLRs must now have it.

Must have? Don't think so. Waste of time and effort. If you need video you
buy the correct tools for the job.

Smaller and lighter cameras. / They keep trying!

The camera has to feel right. A bit of weight can aid steady shooting.

Long zoom lenses with wide aperture. / They wish for this all the time so
they don't have to change lenses so often, while always busy missing shots
and getting dust on the sensor, not finding out that all their images are
ruined until they get home. They'll never get the large apertures at long
zoom lengths that can be designed for P&S cameras. Envy doesn't even begin
to describe how this makes them feel and act.

Again, we are talking quality. Some of the best quality glass is only
available for use on SLR systems.

MC

MC wrote:

Auto-focus first appeared on P&S film cameras. / dSLR owner's now can't
live without it.

Don't need but it's handy.

It's important to understand that when auto-focus was introduced, it
was an effort to expand the camera market (non-"fixed-focus") from
professionals and enthusiasts to the general public who had gotten used
to the convenience of the "fixed-focus" Instamatic cameras. The camera
makers than had the idea that they could also expand the market for SLRs
by adding auto-focus to those as well. It worked well and everyone
seemed to have one of those Pentax, Olympus, Canon, Nikon, or Minolta
film SLRs.

Don't need and don't use so that's blown that theory out of the water.

It's a nice option if the D-SLR also shoots video, or if the LCD is a
tilt/swivel LCD. But the downside is that when you use the LCD you
switch to contrast detect AF instead of the much faster phase detection
auto-focus.

Again, not a necessity. In fact there is a certain satisfaction of hearing
the shutter and mirror after pressing the button and I prefer it to a
"silent" camera (or one with "toy like" sound effects).

Well if you're taking photographs in church, or at a performance, the
silent operation is nice, but many SLRs have electronic shutters that
can do this as well, and you don't lose the advantages of a mechanical
shutter.

Live Histograms / Many wish they could find a way to get this if it's not
already in their dSLR's much-wanted Live View feed.

Nope. Never found the need. A skilled photographer shouldn't need this
facility.

It's more useful on a P&S because of the severe limitations of the
sensor. It's not much use on a D-SLR. Certainly you'd never give up the
optical viewfinder in order to get a live histogram. I have CHDK on my
Canon P&S cameras, and I use the histogram on occasion, but part of the
reason I use CHDK is because I did so much work on the documentation
that I feel that I have a stake in its success!

Shutter-Speed Preview that exists in nearly all P&S cameras' EVF/LCD
displays. / They don't even know what this is, they're forever calling it
viewfinder-lag in their ignorant error, but many want it once they
understand what it's for and how to use it.

Why? I have all the info I need in the "real" viewfinder, instantly and
with no lag.

The lag of electronic viewfinders is a big problem, mentioned by all the
professional reviewers. An EVF is certainly better than no VF at all,
but it's a poor substitute for an OVF. Unfortunately, the expense of
adding an OVF, that works properly with zoom lenses, to a point and
shoot is so high that most manufacturers have dropped it.

Nope. Built in flash is just a toy. Serious photographers use a flash gun.

Actually higher end P&S digital cameras copied SLRs and added a flash
shoe because the convenience flash on the P&S is hopelessly weak. Some
of the D-SLRs have a usable convenience flash.

Must have? Don't think so. Waste of time and effort. If you need video you
buy the correct tools for the job.

It's useful when you don't want to carry around a separate video
recorder. It was an effort by the D-SLR manufacturers to move
down-market to attract less technically sophisticated P&S users.

The camera has to feel right. A bit of weight can aid steady shooting.

The higher end ultra-zoom P&S cameras are larger than some of the
smaller D-SLRs, yet you still get far inferior image quality with the
P&S. However it is true that you can't get a pocket D-SLR but you can
get a pocket P&S.

Long zoom lenses with wide aperture. / They wish for this all the time so
they don't have to change lenses so often, while always busy missing shots
and getting dust on the sensor, not finding out that all their images are
ruined until they get home. They'll never get the large apertures at long
zoom lengths that can be designed for P&S cameras. Envy doesn't even begin
to describe how this makes them feel and act.

Again, we are talking quality. Some of the best quality glass is only
available for use on SLR systems.

The P&S makers love to talk about telephoto range because the tiny
sensor and the resulting crop factor means that they're getting what is
essentially a large, mandatory, digital zoom. But in fact you can just
as easily crop a photo from a D-SLR, taken with a much shorter focal
length lens, and end up with a superior result because the lenses and
sensor are so much better on the D-SLR.

For wide-angle, the high crop factor P&S really sucks. You can find a
couple of higher-end P&S models with 28mm at the wide end, but to go to
true wide-angle you need to use a kludge of lens adapters of mediocre
quality.

What we're seeing now, with the huge increase in sales of digital SLRs
and the lagging sales of P&S digital cameras, is a repeat of what
happened back in the late 1970's to the 1990's. As the general public
realizes the huge advantages of the D-SLRs, the volumes go up and the
prices fall. There's even a greater incentive to move from a digital P&S
to a digital SLR than their was to move from a film P&S to a film SLR.
Back in the film days, everyone had access to the same sensors--you
bought them on rolls and chose the one that best suited your needs at
the time. AF on the film P&S was much faster than what's now on the
digital P&S cameras. So you have the two biggest issues with digital P&S
cameras, the poor low-light/high-ISO performance (due to the small
sensor and the resultant small pixels) and long AF time (due to the
contrast detect auto-focus, and the small sensor and the resultant small
pixels) driving D-SLR sales in a way that film P&S cameras could never
drive the sales of film D-SLRs.

On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 09:25:34 -0700, SMS wrote:

MC wrote:


Don't need and don't use so that's blown that theory out of the water.

It's a nice option if the D-SLR also shoots video, or if the LCD is a
tilt/swivel LCD. But the downside is that when you use the LCD you
switch to contrast detect AF instead of the much faster phase detection
auto-focus.

Proving that you've never held any camera. Phase may be faster but more
prone to back and front focusing problems at the worst times. Contrast
detection is always more accurate. I choose accuracy over speed, any day.
Do you want an erratic car with sloppy steering that can go 200mph or one
that can easily stay on the road at 150mph? Accuracy wins, always.

reason I use CHDK is because I did so much work on the documentation
that I feel that I have a stake in its success!


After this huge lie of yours, there's no sense replying to the rest. I
personally wrote about 90% of the CHDK Wiki. All you managed to do was try
to invent what you though CHDK was supposed to do, because you've never
used CHDK, and then you ****ed-up all the information that was already
there. We eventually had to ban your IP from having any access to editing
the CHDK Wiki. It took many weeks to try to correct all your wild
imaginings where you injected your nonsense on the CHDK Wiki. Not too
different than what happens in all the newsgroups. Everyone always has to
wipe up the piles of bull**** that you leave behind after you've been
through some place. You're like some massive role-play-life troll with
bull**** diarrhea everywhere you go on the net.

Keep your nose out of places where you don't know what you are talking
about. You can start by never posting in any newsgroup that has the string
..photo. in it.

KILL-POST CHDK Wiki Author wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 09:25:34 -0700, SMS wrote:

MC wrote:


Don't need and don't use so that's blown that theory out of the water.
It's a nice option if the D-SLR also shoots video, or if the LCD is a
tilt/swivel LCD. But the downside is that when you use the LCD you
switch to contrast detect AF instead of the much faster phase detection
auto-focus.

Proving that you've never held any camera. Phase may be faster but more
prone to back and front focusing problems at the worst times. Contrast
detection is always more accurate. I choose accuracy over speed, any day.
Do you want an erratic car with sloppy steering that can go 200mph or one
that can easily stay on the road at 150mph? Accuracy wins, always.

reason I use CHDK is because I did so much work on the documentation
that I feel that I have a stake in its success!


After this huge lie of yours, there's no sense replying to the rest. I
personally wrote about 90% of the CHDK Wiki. All you managed to do was try
to invent what you though CHDK was supposed to do, because you've never
used CHDK, and then you ****ed-up all the information that was already
there. We eventually had to ban your IP from having any access to editing
the CHDK Wiki. It took many weeks to try to correct all your wild
imaginings where you injected your nonsense on the CHDK Wiki. Not too
different than what happens in all the newsgroups. Everyone always has to
wipe up the piles of bull**** that you leave behind after you've been
through some place. You're like some massive role-play-life troll with
bull**** diarrhea everywhere you go on the net.


Not that I really want to hear what you have to say, but tell me why I
would want to run a hacked and unsupported firmware on my camera?

I tried CHDK once. Removed it after about 15 minutes as it was very
buggy and made my camera, IMO, unusable, more importantly unstable.


--
Len

On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 15:58:37 -0500, l v wrote:

KILL-POST CHDK Wiki Author wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 09:25:34 -0700, SMS wrote:

MC wrote:


Don't need and don't use so that's blown that theory out of the water.
It's a nice option if the D-SLR also shoots video, or if the LCD is a
tilt/swivel LCD. But the downside is that when you use the LCD you
switch to contrast detect AF instead of the much faster phase detection
auto-focus.

Proving that you've never held any camera. Phase may be faster but more
prone to back and front focusing problems at the worst times. Contrast
detection is always more accurate. I choose accuracy over speed, any day.
Do you want an erratic car with sloppy steering that can go 200mph or one
that can easily stay on the road at 150mph? Accuracy wins, always.

reason I use CHDK is because I did so much work on the documentation
that I feel that I have a stake in its success!


After this huge lie of yours, there's no sense replying to the rest. I
personally wrote about 90% of the CHDK Wiki. All you managed to do was try
to invent what you though CHDK was supposed to do, because you've never
used CHDK, and then you ****ed-up all the information that was already
there. We eventually had to ban your IP from having any access to editing
the CHDK Wiki. It took many weeks to try to correct all your wild
imaginings where you injected your nonsense on the CHDK Wiki. Not too
different than what happens in all the newsgroups. Everyone always has to
wipe up the piles of bull**** that you leave behind after you've been
through some place. You're like some massive role-play-life troll with
bull**** diarrhea everywhere you go on the net.


Not that I really want to hear what you have to say, but tell me why I
would want to run a hacked and unsupported firmware on my camera?

This proves that you've never used CHDK. You didn't even read the main FAQ
on the CHDK Wiki. It's not a "hacked firmware". It doesn't touch the
original firmware. It's an overlay, an intermediate program to access the
camera's firmware which is re-loaded from the memory card every time you
turn on the camera. If not auto-booted or manually loaded from your memory
card each time then it doesn't exist to the camera.


I tried CHDK once. Removed it after about 15 minutes as it was very
buggy and made my camera, IMO, unusable, more importantly unstable.

Again, proving that you've never used CHDK. It's one of the most stable
hacks that has ever existed in its nearly three years of existence. The
only time there are some instability issues is during the porting process
of a new camera model or a different firmware version when users have to
test it to make sure all the correct camera's firmware memory locations
have been found for that particular model and firmware version. Once those
memory locations are found there are no other issues to contend with. CHDK
is used by many thousands of people, lab research personnel, professionals,
Canon employees included, it has never harmed even one camera. A Canon rep
even gave approval of its use when someone asked Canon about warranty
issues. Either you've never used it or you're so inept that you couldn't
even figure out how to use its simplest features. CHDK is meant for
advanced photographers who have need of all it can do. It's definitely not
intended for the typical snapshooter nor typical DSLR owner. Both, one in
the same.

No sense in trying to convince a complete liar of something that they don't
want to be convinced of nor learn about. Or in the other case, someone so
stupid that they couldn't even learn how to use it. I'd only be wasting my
valuable time trying to do that. Besides, you don't even want to hear what
I have to say. So why should I bother.

But I will take my time to expose you for what you truly are.

Go back to what you do best, just like SMS, enjoying being an ignorant
troll who doesn't even know how to use a camera.

["Followup-To:" header set to rec.photo.digital.]
ReAL Itchy wrote:

I've been noticing a quite interesting pattern over the last three decades.

Your mental age isn't even one decade ... so you probably made
it all up.

It seems that the most innovative features always appear on P&S camera's
first, film & digital.

Obviously, the most innovative features always appear first in
Germany and, today, are first mass produced by Japan.

Only years later do d/SLR owners finally wake-up and
decide they not only want but NEED those features too.

Sure.

Examples:

carefully selected and you get them still wrong ... sheesh!

Auto-focus first appeared on P&S film cameras.

Nope, it first appeared in Leica patents.
The first P&S to actually use AF used ... a phase detection AF.
Slow, not too clever, but an early phase detecion AF. Just like
SLRs and DSLRs use today.

/ dSLR owner's now can't live without it.

Electricity first appeared in amber, trolls now can't live
without it.

Live-View LCD display.

Idiot troll doesn't know what the D in LCD stands for. But then,
LCDs were invented completely independent of P&S cameras, too.

Extensive use of such cameras has only proven to me that a real
optical viewfinder is way more flexible.

Silent Operation

Invented by the very first exposures ever done. Nothing to do
with P&S.

Live Histograms

Invented in digital image manipulation software like Photoshop.
Nothing to do with P&S.

Shutter-Speed Preview

Marketese for 'display lag'.

Built-in flash

Only idiots and trolls see that as anything but image-destroying
convenience. It's as innovative as throwing rocks.

Video modes

were invented for television. TV camera systems with the
capabilities of storage, replay and even slow motion were available
before WWII.

Smaller and lighter cameras.

Were invented with the third or fourth camera invented ...
and always compromise the image quality after some point.

Long zoom lenses with wide aperture.

.... are not found in P&S cameras. They cannot even boast a real
200mm lens --- an easy job for DSLRs --- the best P&S cameras
can do is less than 100mm ... but trolls love to cheat with crop
"factors" or 'viewing angles'.

These are just of the few of many features that first appeared on P&S

Sure. Like
.... parallax free images. First found on SLR cameras, P&S only
gained a inferior version with electronic sensors.
.... fast and reliable AF. P&S AF lag is legendary.
.... viewfinders without *mandatory* 'Shutter-speed preview'.
.... low noise even at high ISO settings.
.... creative chances with small DOF (medium and large format
cameras are even better).
.... changeable lenses. The wins are obvious to all.
.... directly affecting all important parameters with wheels for
fast and accurate changes.
.... many decades of knowledge about finding the best user
interfaces.

But P&S cameras do have a few innovative features:
- oil painting (just select a higher ISO setting).
- electronically corrected lenses (the lenses are so bad that
you must correct their many short comings at *any* price)
- being cheap enough to be thrown through the air on selftimer
- bad shot preventer: the camera will not switch on fast enough
for a bad, but important image of whatever you wanted to record.
- eye protector: in sunshine, you need the dark tunnel viewfinder
or the EVF, thus reducing the amount of sunshine and UV light
that will reach your eyes.
- testbed for the limits of anti-shake systems ... holding cameras
at long arms is a good way to test these systems to the max.
- good random source generators (tiny sensors with pixels way
smaller than the airy disks produce lots high-quality noise)
- inbuild phones and MP3 players and games (because the
camera qualities are nothing to write home about)
- huge, unnecessary megapixel numbers (to help those with too
small dicks)
- changing all parameters by going down three levels in a menu,
this is called 'user friendly' (because you could put smileys
into the menu, and because flipping through unneeded menues
can calm you down when you again loose a shot due to that).
- muscle training: draining batteries quickly with all the LCDs and
EVFs needed causes you to shlep more batteries, thus increasing
your health.

There must be many more 'good' sides I must have forgotten.

Oh well. As has been said time and time again, dSLR owners are none too
bright. I guess that's what makes them dSLR owners.

Yes, they are selling their images. That's not too bright, when
they could listen to your drivel and loose their sales thanks to
P&S features.

-Wolfgang

On Sat, 1 Aug 2009 04:10:08 +0200, Wolfgang Weisselberg
wrote:

["Followup-To:" header set to rec.photo.digital.]
ReAL Itchy wrote:

I've been noticing a quite interesting pattern over the last three decades.

Your mental age isn't even one decade ... so you probably made
it all up.

It seems that the most innovative features always appear on P&S camera's
first, film & digital.

Obviously, the most innovative features always appear first in
Germany and, today, are first mass produced by Japan.

Only years later do d/SLR owners finally wake-up and
decide they not only want but NEED those features too.

Sure.

Examples:

carefully selected and you get them still wrong ... sheesh!

Auto-focus first appeared on P&S film cameras.

Nope, it first appeared in Leica patents.
The first P&S to actually use AF used ... a phase detection AF.
Slow, not too clever, but an early phase detecion AF. Just like
SLRs and DSLRs use today.

/ dSLR owner's now can't live without it.

Electricity first appeared in amber, trolls now can't live
without it.

Live-View LCD display.

Idiot troll doesn't know what the D in LCD stands for. But then,
LCDs were invented completely independent of P&S cameras, too.

Extensive use of such cameras has only proven to me that a real
optical viewfinder is way more flexible.

Silent Operation

Invented by the very first exposures ever done. Nothing to do
with P&S.

Live Histograms

Invented in digital image manipulation software like Photoshop.
Nothing to do with P&S.

Shutter-Speed Preview

Marketese for 'display lag'.

Built-in flash

Only idiots and trolls see that as anything but image-destroying
convenience. It's as innovative as throwing rocks.

Video modes

were invented for television. TV camera systems with the
capabilities of storage, replay and even slow motion were available
before WWII.

Smaller and lighter cameras.

Were invented with the third or fourth camera invented ...
and always compromise the image quality after some point.

Long zoom lenses with wide aperture.

... are not found in P&S cameras. They cannot even boast a real
200mm lens --- an easy job for DSLRs --- the best P&S cameras
can do is less than 100mm ... but trolls love to cheat with crop
"factors" or 'viewing angles'.

These are just of the few of many features that first appeared on P&S

Sure. Like
... parallax free images. First found on SLR cameras, P&S only
gained a inferior version with electronic sensors.
... fast and reliable AF. P&S AF lag is legendary.
... viewfinders without *mandatory* 'Shutter-speed preview'.
... low noise even at high ISO settings.
... creative chances with small DOF (medium and large format
cameras are even better).
... changeable lenses. The wins are obvious to all.
... directly affecting all important parameters with wheels for
fast and accurate changes.
... many decades of knowledge about finding the best user
interfaces.

But P&S cameras do have a few innovative features:
- oil painting (just select a higher ISO setting).
- electronically corrected lenses (the lenses are so bad that
you must correct their many short comings at *any* price)
- being cheap enough to be thrown through the air on selftimer
- bad shot preventer: the camera will not switch on fast enough
for a bad, but important image of whatever you wanted to record.
- eye protector: in sunshine, you need the dark tunnel viewfinder
or the EVF, thus reducing the amount of sunshine and UV light
that will reach your eyes.
- testbed for the limits of anti-shake systems ... holding cameras
at long arms is a good way to test these systems to the max.
- good random source generators (tiny sensors with pixels way
smaller than the airy disks produce lots high-quality noise)
- inbuild phones and MP3 players and games (because the
camera qualities are nothing to write home about)
- huge, unnecessary megapixel numbers (to help those with too
small dicks)
- changing all parameters by going down three levels in a menu,
this is called 'user friendly' (because you could put smileys
into the menu, and because flipping through unneeded menues
can calm you down when you again loose a shot due to that).
- muscle training: draining batteries quickly with all the LCDs and
EVFs needed causes you to shlep more batteries, thus increasing
your health.

There must be many more 'good' sides I must have forgotten.

Oh well. As has been said time and time again, dSLR owners are none too
bright. I guess that's what makes them dSLR owners.

Yes, they are selling their images. That's not too bright, when
they could listen to your drivel and loose their sales thanks to
P&S features.

-Wolfgang


Dear Resident Pretend-Photographer DSLR-Troll,

Many points (new & improved, like #26) outlined below completely disprove
your usual resident-troll bull****. You can either read it and educate
yourself, or don't read it and continue to prove to everyone that you are
nothing but a virtual-photographer newsgroup-troll and a fool.


1. P&S cameras can have more seamless zoom range than any DSLR glass in
existence. (E.g. 9mm f2.7 - 1248mm f/3.5.) There are now some excellent
wide-angle and telephoto (telextender) add-on lenses for many makes and
models of P&S cameras. Add either or both of these small additions to your
photography gear and, with some of the new super-zoom P&S cameras, you can
far surpass any range of focal-lengths and apertures that are available or
will ever be made for larger format cameras.

2. P&S cameras can have much wider apertures at longer focal lengths than
any DSLR glass in existence. (E.g. 549mm f/2.4 and 1248mm f/3.5) when used
with high-quality telextenders, which do not reduce the lens' original
aperture one bit. Following is a link to a hand-held taken image of a 432mm
f/3.5 P&S lens increased to an effective 2197mm f/3.5 lens by using two
high-quality teleconverters. To achieve that apparent focal-length the
photographer also added a small step of 1.7x digital zoom to take advantage
of the RAW sensor's slightly greater detail retention when upsampled
directly in the camera for JPG output. As opposed to trying to upsample a
JPG image on the computer where those finer RAW sensor details are already
lost once it's left the camera's processing. (Digital-zoom is not totally
empty zoom, contrary to all the net-parroting idiots online.) A HAND-HELD
2197mm f/3.5 image from a P&S camera (downsized only, no crop):
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3141/...1dbdb8ac_o.jpg Note that
any in-focus details are cleanly defined to the corners and there is no CA
whatsoever. If you study the EXIF data the author reduced contrast and
sharpening by 2-steps, which accounts for the slight softness overall. Any
decent photographer will handle those operations properly in editing with
more powerful tools and not allow a camera to do them for him. A full f/3.5
aperture achieved at an effective focal-length of 2197mm (35mm equivalent).
Only DSLRs suffer from loss of aperture due to the manner in which their
teleconverters work. P&S cameras can also have higher quality full-frame
180-degree circular fisheye and intermediate super-wide-angle views than
any DSLR and its glass for far less cost. Some excellent fish-eye adapters
can be added to your P&S camera which do not impart any chromatic
aberration nor edge softness. When used with a super-zoom P&S camera this
allows you to seamlessly go from as wide as a 9mm (or even wider) 35mm
equivalent focal-length up to the wide-angle setting of the camera's own
lens.

3. P&S smaller sensor cameras can and do have wider dynamic range than
larger sensor cameras E.g. a 1/2.5" sized sensor can have a 10.3EV Dynamic
Range vs. an APS-C's typical 7.0-8.0EV Dynamic Range. One quick example:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3142/...7ceaf3a1_o.jpg

4. P&S cameras are cost efficient. Due to the smaller (but excellent)
sensors used in many of them today, the lenses for these cameras are much
smaller. Smaller lenses are easier to manufacture to exacting curvatures
and are more easily corrected for aberrations than larger glass used for
DSLRs. This also allows them to perform better at all apertures rather than
DSLR glass which usually performs well at only one aperture setting per
lens. Side by side tests prove that P&S glass can out-resolve even the best
DSLR glass ever made. See this side-by-side comparison for example
http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Ca..._results.shtml
When adjusted for sensor size, the DSLR lens is creating 4.3x's the CA that
the P&S lens is creating, and the P&S lens is resolving almost 10x's the
amount of detail that the DSLR lens is resolving. A difficult to figure 20x
P&S zoom lens easily surpassing a much more easy to make 3x DSLR zoom lens.
After all is said and done you will spend anywhere from 1/10th to 1/50th
the price on a P&S camera that you would have to spend in order to get
comparable performance in a DSLR camera. To obtain the same focal-length
ranges as that $340 SX10 camera with DSLR glass that *might* approach or
equal the P&S resolution, it would cost over $6,500 to accomplish that (at
the time of this writing). This isn't counting the extra costs of a
heavy-duty tripod required to make it functional at those longer
focal-lengths and a backpack to carry it all. Bringing that DSLR investment
to over 20 times the cost of a comparable P&S camera. When you buy a DSLR
you are investing in a body that will require expensive lenses, hand-grips,
external flash units, heavy tripods, more expensive larger filters, etc.
etc. The outrageous costs of owning a DSLR add up fast after that initial
DSLR body purchase. Camera companies count on this, all the way to their
banks.

5. P&S cameras are lightweight and convenient. With just one P&S camera
plus one small wide-angle adapter and one small telephoto adapter weighing
just a couple pounds, you have the same amount of zoom range as would
require over 15 pounds of DSLR body + lenses. The P&S camera mentioned in
the previous example is only 1.3 lbs. The DSLR + expensive lenses that
*might* equal it in image quality comes in at 9.6 lbs. of dead-weight to
lug around all day (not counting the massive and expensive tripod, et.al.)
You can carry the whole P&S kit + accessory lenses in one roomy pocket of a
wind-breaker or jacket. The DSLR kit would require a sturdy backpack. You
also don't require a massive tripod. Large tripods are required to
stabilize the heavy and unbalanced mass of the larger DSLR and its massive
lenses. A P&S camera, being so light, can be used on some of the most
inexpensive, compact, and lightweight tripods with excellent results.

6. P&S cameras are silent. For the more common snap-shooter/photographer,
you will not be barred from using your camera at public events,
stage-performances, and ceremonies. Or when trying to capture candid shots
you won't so easily alert all those within a block around, by the obnoxious
clattering noise that your DSLR is making, that you are capturing anyone's
images. For the more dedicated wildlife photographer a P&S camera will not
endanger your life when photographing potentially dangerous animals by
alerting them to your presence.

7. Some P&S cameras can run the revolutionary CHDK software on them, which
allows for lightning-fast motion detection (literally, lightning fast 45ms
response time, able to capture lightning strikes automatically) so that you
may capture more elusive and shy animals (in still-frame and video) where
any evidence of your presence at all might prevent their appearance.
Without the need of carrying a tethered laptop along or any other hardware
into remote areas--which only limits your range, distance, and time
allotted for bringing back that one-of-a-kind image. It also allows for
unattended time-lapse photography for days and weeks at a time, so that you
may capture those unusual or intriguing subject-studies in nature. E.g. a
rare slime-mold's propagation, that you happened to find in a
mountain-ravine, 10-days hike from the nearest laptop or other time-lapse
hardware. (The wealth of astounding new features that CHDK brings to the
creative-table of photography are too extensive to begin to list them all
here. See http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK )

8. P&S cameras can have shutter speeds up to 1/40,000th of a second. See:
http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CameraFeatures Allowing you to capture fast
subject motion in nature (e.g. insect and hummingbird wings) WITHOUT the
need of artificial and image destroying flash, using available light alone.
Nor will their wing shapes be unnaturally distorted from the focal-plane
shutter distortions imparted in any fast moving objects, as when
photographed with all DSLRs. (See focal-plane-shutter-distortions
example-image link in #10.)

9. P&S cameras can have full-frame flash-sync up to and including
shutter-speeds of 1/40,000th of a second. E.g.
http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/Samples:_...%26_Flash-Sync
without the use of any expensive and specialized focal-plane shutter
flash-units that must pulse their light-output for the full duration of the
shutter's curtain to pass slowly over the frame. The other downside to
those kinds of flash units is that the light-output is greatly reduced the
faster the shutter speed. Any shutter speed used that is faster than your
camera's X-Sync speed is cutting off some of the flash output. Not so when
using a leaf-shutter. The full intensity of the flash is recorded no matter
the shutter speed used. Unless, as in the case of CHDK capable cameras
where the camera's shutter speed can even be faster than the lightning-fast
single burst from a flash unit. E.g. If the flash's duration is 1/10,000 of
a second, and your CHDK camera's shutter is set to 1/20,000 of a second,
then it will only record half of that flash output. P&S cameras also don't
require any expensive and dedicated external flash unit. Any of them may be
used with any flash unit made by using an inexpensive slave-trigger that
can compensate for any automated pre-flash conditions. Example:
http://www.adorama.com/SZ23504.html

10. P&S cameras do not suffer from focal-plane shutter drawbacks and
limitations. Causing camera shake, moving-subject image distortions
(focal-plane-shutter distortions, e.g.
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/ch...istortions.jpg
do note the distorted tail-rotor too and its shadow on the ground,
90-degrees from one another), last-century-slow flash-sync, obnoxiously
loud slapping mirrors and shutter curtains, shorter mechanical life, easily
damaged, expensive repair costs, etc.

11. When doing wildlife photography in remote and rugged areas and harsh
environments; or even when the amateur snap-shooter is trying to take their
vacation photos on a beach or dusty intersection on some city street;
you're not worrying about trying to change lenses in time to get that shot
(fewer missed shots), dropping one in the mud, lake, surf, or on concrete
while you do; and not worrying about ruining all the rest of your photos
that day from having gotten dust & crud on the sensor. For the adventurous
photographer you're no longer weighed down by many many extra pounds of
unneeded glass, allowing you to carry more of the important supplies, like
food and water, allowing you to trek much further than you've ever been
able to travel before with your old D/SLR bricks.

12. Smaller sensors and the larger apertures available at longer
focal-lengths allow for the deep DOF required for excellent
macro-photography when using normal macro or tele-macro lens arrangements.
All done WITHOUT the need of any image destroying, subject irritating,
natural-look destroying flash. No DSLR on the planet can compare in the
quality of available-light macro photography that can be accomplished with
nearly any smaller-sensor P&S camera. (To clarify for DSLR owners/promoters
who don't even know basic photography principles: In order to obtain the
same DOF on a DSLR you'll need to stop down that lens greatly. When you do
then you have to use shutter speeds so slow that hand-held
macro-photography, even in full daylight, is all but impossible. Not even
your highest ISO is going to save you at times. The only solution for the
DSLR user is to resort to artificial flash which then ruins the subject and
the image; turning it into some staged, fake-looking, studio setup.)

13. P&S cameras include video, and some even provide for CD-quality stereo
audio recordings, so that you might capture those rare events in nature
where a still-frame alone could never prove all those "scientists" wrong.
E.g. recording the paw-drumming communication patterns of eusocial-living
field-mice. With your P&S video-capable camera in your pocket you won't
miss that once-in-a-lifetime chance to record some unexpected event, like
the passage of a bright meteor in the sky in daytime, a mid-air explosion,
or any other newsworthy event. Imagine the gaping hole in our history of
the Hindenberg if there were no film cameras there at the time. The mystery
of how it exploded would have never been solved. Or the amateur 8mm film of
the shooting of President Kennedy. Your video-ready P&S camera being with
you all the time might capture something that will be a valuable part of
human history one day.

14. P&S cameras have 100% viewfinder coverage that exactly matches your
final image. No important bits lost, and no chance of ruining your
composition by trying to "guess" what will show up in the final image. With
the ability to overlay live RGB-histograms, and under/over-exposure area
alerts (and dozens of other important shooting data) directly on your
electronic viewfinder display you are also not going to guess if your
exposure might be right this time. Nor do you have to remove your eye from
the view of your subject to check some external LCD histogram display,
ruining your chances of getting that perfect shot when it happens.

15. P&S cameras can and do focus in lower-light (which is common in natural
settings) than any DSLRs in existence, due to electronic viewfinders and
sensors that can be increased in gain for framing and focusing purposes as
light-levels drop. Some P&S cameras can even take images (AND videos) in
total darkness by using IR illumination alone. (See: Sony) No other
multi-purpose cameras are capable of taking still-frame and videos of
nocturnal wildlife as easily nor as well. Shooting videos and still-frames
of nocturnal animals in the total-dark, without disturbing their natural
behavior by the use of flash, from 90 ft. away with a 549mm f/2.4 lens is
not only possible, it's been done, many times, by myself. (An interesting
and true story: one wildlife photographer was nearly stomped to death by an
irate moose that attacked where it saw his camera's flash come from.)

16. Without the need to use flash in all situations, and a P&S's nearly
100% silent operation, you are not disturbing your wildlife, neither
scaring it away nor changing their natural behavior with your existence.
Nor, as previously mentioned, drawing its defensive behavior in your
direction. You are recording nature as it is, and should be, not some
artificial human-changed distortion of reality and nature.

17. Nature photography requires that the image be captured with the
greatest degree of accuracy possible. NO focal-plane shutter in existence,
with its inherent focal-plane-shutter distortions imparted on any moving
subject will EVER capture any moving subject in nature 100% accurately. A
leaf-shutter or electronic shutter, as is found in ALL P&S cameras, will
capture your moving subject in nature with 100% accuracy. Your P&S
photography will no longer lead a biologist nor other scientist down
another DSLR-distorted path of non-reality.

18. Some P&S cameras have shutter-lag times that are even shorter than all
the popular DSLRs, due to the fact that they don't have to move those
agonizingly slow and loud mirrors and shutter curtains in time before the
shot is recorded. In the hands of an experienced photographer that will
always rely on prefocusing their camera, there is no hit & miss
auto-focusing that happens on all auto-focus systems, DSLRs included. This
allows you to take advantage of the faster shutter response times of P&S
cameras. Any pro worth his salt knows that if you really want to get every
shot, you don't depend on automatic anything in any camera.

19. An electronic viewfinder, as exists in all P&S cameras, can accurately
relay the camera's shutter-speed in real-time. Giving you a 100% accurate
preview of what your final subject is going to look like when shot at 3
seconds or 1/20,000th of a second. Your soft waterfall effects, or the
crisp sharp outlines of your stopped-motion hummingbird wings will be 100%
accurately depicted in your viewfinder before you even record the shot.
What you see in a P&S camera is truly what you get. You won't have to guess
in advance at what shutter speed to use to obtain those artistic effects or
those scientifically accurate nature studies that you require or that your
client requires. When testing CHDK P&S cameras that could have shutter
speeds as fast as 1/40,000th of a second, I was amazed that I could
half-depress the shutter and watch in the viewfinder as a Dremel-Drill's
30,000 rpm rotating disk was stopped in crisp detail in real time, without
ever having taken an example shot yet. Similarly true when lowering shutter
speeds for milky-water effects when shooting rapids and falls, instantly
seeing the effect in your viewfinder. Poor DSLR-trolls will never realize
what they are missing with their anciently slow focal-plane shutters and
wholly inaccurate optical viewfinders.

20. P&S cameras can obtain the very same bokeh (out of focus foreground and
background) as any DSLR by just increasing your focal length, through use
of its own built-in super-zoom lens or attaching a high-quality telextender
on the front. Just back up from your subject more than you usually would
with a DSLR. Framing and the included background is relative to the subject
at the time and has nothing at all to do with the kind of camera and lens
in use. Your f/ratio (which determines your depth-of-field), is a
computation of focal-length divided by aperture diameter. Increase the
focal-length and you make your DOF shallower. No different than opening up
the aperture to accomplish the same. The two methods are identically
related where DOF is concerned.

21. P&S cameras will have perfectly fine noise-free images at lower ISOs
with just as much resolution as any DSLR camera. Experienced Pros grew up
on ISO25 and ISO64 film all their lives. They won't even care if their P&S
camera can't go above ISO400 without noise. An added bonus is that the P&S
camera can have larger apertures at longer focal-lengths than any DSLR in
existence. The time when you really need a fast lens to prevent
camera-shake that gets amplified at those focal-lengths. Even at low ISOs
you can take perfectly fine hand-held images at super-zoom settings.
Whereas the DSLR, with its very small apertures at long focal lengths
require ISOs above 3200 to obtain the same results. They need high ISOs,
you don't. If you really require low-noise high ISOs, there are some
excellent models of Fuji P&S cameras that do have noise-free images up to
ISO1600 and more.

22. Don't for one minute think that the price of your camera will in any
way determine the quality of your photography. Any of the newer cameras of
around $100 or more are plenty good for nearly any talented photographer
today. IF they have talent to begin with. A REAL pro can take an award
winning photograph with a cardboard Brownie Box Camera made a century ago.
If you can't take excellent photos on a P&S camera then you won't be able
to get good photos on a DSLR either. Never blame your inability to obtain a
good photograph on the kind of camera that you own. Those who claim they
NEED a DSLR are only fooling themselves and all others. These are the same
people that buy a new camera every year, each time thinking, "Oh, if I only
had the right camera, a better camera, better lenses, faster lenses, then I
will be a great photographer!" If they just throw enough money at their
hobby then the talent-fairy will come by one day, after just the right
offering to the DSLR gods was made, and bestow them with something that
they never had in the first place--talent. Camera company's love these
people. They'll never be able to get a camera that will make their
photography better, because they never were a good photographer to begin
with. They're forever searching for that more expensive camera that might
one day come included with that new "talent in a box" feature. The irony is
that they'll never look in the mirror to see what the real problem has been
all along. They'll NEVER become good photographers. Perhaps this is why
these self-proclaimed "pros" hate P&S cameras so much. P&S cameras
instantly reveal to them their ****-poor photography skills. It also
reveals the harsh reality that all the wealth in the world won't make them
any better at photography. It's difficult for them to face the truth.

23. Have you ever had the fun of showing some of your exceptional P&S
photography to some self-proclaimed "Pro" who uses $30,000 worth of camera
gear. They are so impressed that they must know how you did it. You smile
and tell them, "Oh, I just use a $150 P&S camera." Don't you just love the
look on their face? A half-life of self-doubt, the realization of all that
lost money, and a sadness just courses through every fiber of their being.
Wondering why they can't get photographs as good after they spent all that
time and money. Get good on your P&S camera and you too can enjoy this fun
experience.

24. Did we mention portability yet? I think we did, but it is worth
mentioning the importance of this a few times. A camera in your pocket that
is instantly ready to get any shot during any part of the day will get more
award-winning photographs than that DSLR gear that's sitting back at home,
collecting dust, and waiting to be loaded up into that expensive back-pack
or camera bag, hoping that you'll lug it around again some day.

25. A good P&S camera is a good theft deterrent. When traveling you are not
advertising to the world that you are carrying $20,000 around with you.
That's like having a sign on your back saying, "PLEASE MUG ME! I'M THIS
STUPID AND I DESERVE IT!" Keep a small P&S camera in your pocket and only
take it out when needed. You'll have a better chance of returning home with
all your photos. And should you accidentally lose your P&S camera you're
not out $20,000. They are inexpensive to replace.

26. A good P&S camera can even rival the images produced by a Medium-Format
Hasselblad H2. Something that no DSLR owner would even think of trying to
do. Even when the Hasselblad is securely mounted on an expensive and hefty
tripod, the mirror locked-up, and using a self-timer and cable-release to
trip the shutter to ensure the utmost in image resolution and clarity;
while the P&S camera was just set on top of the Hasselblad, HAND-HELD, and
the shutter tripped with a finger. The images between the two cameras are
still indistinguishable. Don't believe it? Then you need to enjoy this fun
read. http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/kidding.shtml


There are many more reasons to add to this list but this should be more
than enough for even the most unaware person to realize that P&S cameras
are just better, all around. No doubt about it.

The phenomenon of everyone yelling "You NEED a DSLR!" can be summed up in
just one short phrase:

"If even 5 billion people are saying and doing a foolish thing, it remains
a foolish thing."

Troll Killer writes:
1. P&S cameras can have more seamless zoom range than any DSLR glass in
existence.
2. P&S cameras can have much wider apertures at longer focal lengths than
any DSLR glass in existence.
3. P&S smaller sensor cameras can and do have wider dynamic range than
larger sensor cameras
....

Your basic conclusion seems to be that P&S are somehow magic, and can
achieve every good property with no costs.

Do you _really_ think that?

Do you _really_ think an immense zoom range really comes with no cost?

[hint: traditional costs associated with big zoom ranges: smaller max
aperture and/or weight/size and/or image quality and/or increased price
(from exotic materials/geometries/whatever)]

Do you _really_ think that smaller sensors come with no cost?

[hint: noise noise noise]

We all know how handy a P&S can be, but in the real world, there _are_
tradeoffs...

-miles

--
Insurrection, n. An unsuccessful revolution.