Linhof shutter

In article ,
PGG wrote:

I have the opportunity to buy a 150mm Linhof-Schneider Symmar lens in a
Linhof shutter. I know that Schneider makes the lens, but who makes the
shutter? Is it any good?

It is probably a Compur but could be any of the following:

Compur Electric
Prontor
Prontor Magnetic
Copal
Linhof - very, very old
Deckel - not quite as old.

Valetin Linhof invented a very popular shutter. He the sold it to his
partner Deckel. Deckel then became part of the Zeiss Group and the
shutter was then named Compur.

--
To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.

In article ,
PGG wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 05:06:55 -0500, Bob Salomon wrote:

In article ,
PGG wrote:

I have the opportunity to buy a 150mm Linhof-Schneider Symmar lens in a
Linhof shutter. I know that Schneider makes the lens, but who makes the
shutter? Is it any good?

It is probably a Compur but could be any of the following:


After looking at pictures on the web, I definitely think it is a Compur.
Are those as good as Copal's?

If it is periodically CLA it is just as good as the Copal if it is
periodically CLA. Later Compur shutters had 1/2 or 1/3 stop click stops
making them more repeatable then a Copal. Early Compur shutters had
more problems then later ones. Compur shutters could have an optional
rear aperture and rear shutter speed controllers added to the gear train
in the back of the shutter allowing one to set either from behind the
camera. Copal never had this feature.

--
To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.

In article ,
PGG wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 05:06:55 -0500, Bob Salomon wrote:

In article ,
PGG wrote:

I have the opportunity to buy a 150mm Linhof-Schneider Symmar lens in a
Linhof shutter. I know that Schneider makes the lens, but who makes the
shutter? Is it any good?

It is probably a Compur but could be any of the following:


After looking at pictures on the web, I definitely think it is a Compur.
Are those as good as Copal's?

If it is periodically CLA it is just as good as the Copal if it is
periodically CLA. Later Compur shutters had 1/2 or 1/3 stop click stops
making them more repeatable then a Copal. Early Compur shutters had
more problems then later ones. Compur shutters could have an optional
rear aperture and rear shutter speed controllers added to the gear train
in the back of the shutter allowing one to set either from behind the
camera. Copal never had this feature.

--
To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.

After looking at pictures on the web, I definitely think it is a Compur.
Are those as good as Copal's?


I've handled hundreds of view lenses.
Seldom had a problem with Copal shutters.
Practically every other Compur shutter needs work.

Bob G

"Bob G" wrote in message
...
After looking at pictures on the web, I definitely think
it is a Compur.
Are those as good as Copal's?


I've handled hundreds of view lenses.
Seldom had a problem with Copal shutters.
Practically every other Compur shutter needs work.

Bob G


That's because they're old many have never been serviced
properly. Basically the Compur shutters, ever the early
ones, are quite reliable. One problem with Compur is that
its difficult to get replacment parts for them
There have been something like five or six generations of
Compur shutters. The earliest ones, called "dial-set" date
from sometime in the 'teens and were made until about 1930.
These have a small speed dial at the top. The next
generation was the "rim-set" Compur. The speed setting is
done with the familar speed ring around the periphery. The
next Compur was the Compur-Rapid, about the late 1930's with
speeds to 1/400th or 1/500th depending on size. After that
came the Synchro-Compur with built in flash synchronization.
Next came the EVS Compurs which have a different internal
mechanism. Some of these shutters are difficult for some
technicians to work on. They have gotten a bad reputation
for that reason. If a Compur is properly cleaned and
lubricated it will work for many years.
I don't think the Copal is any more accurate or
consistent than the later Compurs. They are relatively new
shutters so one doesn't encounter a 75 year old precision
machine that has worn beyond being accurate. Copal shutters
are very good but I have heard of new ones that are off
speed. They may be rare but it can happen.
Unless it is really trashed most Compur shutters can be
brought back to life.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

"Bob G" wrote in message
...
After looking at pictures on the web, I definitely think
it is a Compur.
Are those as good as Copal's?


I've handled hundreds of view lenses.
Seldom had a problem with Copal shutters.
Practically every other Compur shutter needs work.

Bob G


That's because they're old many have never been serviced
properly. Basically the Compur shutters, ever the early
ones, are quite reliable. One problem with Compur is that
its difficult to get replacment parts for them
There have been something like five or six generations of
Compur shutters. The earliest ones, called "dial-set" date
from sometime in the 'teens and were made until about 1930.
These have a small speed dial at the top. The next
generation was the "rim-set" Compur. The speed setting is
done with the familar speed ring around the periphery. The
next Compur was the Compur-Rapid, about the late 1930's with
speeds to 1/400th or 1/500th depending on size. After that
came the Synchro-Compur with built in flash synchronization.
Next came the EVS Compurs which have a different internal
mechanism. Some of these shutters are difficult for some
technicians to work on. They have gotten a bad reputation
for that reason. If a Compur is properly cleaned and
lubricated it will work for many years.
I don't think the Copal is any more accurate or
consistent than the later Compurs. They are relatively new
shutters so one doesn't encounter a 75 year old precision
machine that has worn beyond being accurate. Copal shutters
are very good but I have heard of new ones that are off
speed. They may be rare but it can happen.
Unless it is really trashed most Compur shutters can be
brought back to life.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

"Bob Salomon" wrote in message
...
In article
,
PGG wrote:

I have the opportunity to buy a 150mm Linhof-Schneider
Symmar lens in a
Linhof shutter. I know that Schneider makes the lens,
but who makes the
shutter? Is it any good?

It is probably a Compur but could be any of the following:

Compur Electric
Prontor
Prontor Magnetic
Copal
Linhof - very, very old
Deckel - not quite as old.

Valetin Linhof invented a very popular shutter. He the
sold it to his
partner Deckel. Deckel then became part of the Zeiss Group
and the
shutter was then named Compur.

--
To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.


I am curious as to your source of this history. Do you
know the dates? Compur shutters are based on the Ilex
patents on the clockwork regulator. I think the Linhof
shutter may have been the Compound. As you know the Compound
uses an air cylinder as the regulator. It is IMO the best of
the air-brake regluated shutters. I am not sure of the date
of the Compound but I think it dates from something like
1905. The Ilex patents are later, again I don't remember the
exact date of the patents but they were probably in the late
'teens. Since all gear regulated shutters had to be licensed
under the Ilex patents Ilex ran along on the royalties for
years.
It would be interesting to know when Fredrick Deckel
became part of the Zeiss Co. Was it Zeiss or Zeiss-Ikon?
Zeiss-Ikon would make it 1926 or later.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

In article ,
"Richard Knoppow" wrote:

"Bob Salomon" wrote in message
...
In article
,
PGG wrote:

I have the opportunity to buy a 150mm Linhof-Schneider
Symmar lens in a
Linhof shutter. I know that Schneider makes the lens,
but who makes the
shutter? Is it any good?

It is probably a Compur but could be any of the following:

Compur Electric
Prontor
Prontor Magnetic
Copal
Linhof - very, very old
Deckel - not quite as old.

Valetin Linhof invented a very popular shutter. He the
sold it to his
partner Deckel. Deckel then became part of the Zeiss Group
and the
shutter was then named Compur.

--
To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.


I am curious as to your source of this history. Do you
know the dates? Compur shutters are based on the Ilex
patents on the clockwork regulator. I think the Linhof
shutter may have been the Compound. As you know the Compound
uses an air cylinder as the regulator. It is IMO the best of
the air-brake regluated shutters. I am not sure of the date
of the Compound but I think it dates from something like
1905. The Ilex patents are later, again I don't remember the
exact date of the patents but they were probably in the late
'teens. Since all gear regulated shutters had to be licensed
under the Ilex patents Ilex ran along on the royalties for
years.
It would be interesting to know when Fredrick Deckel
became part of the Zeiss Co. Was it Zeiss or Zeiss-Ikon?
Zeiss-Ikon would make it 1926 or later.

You can see the early history in the Linhof Camera Story book. For
specifics on when Fredrich Deckel and Valentin Linhof split you would
check the Deckel company history. Linhof only mentions it to explain
what they were making before they began making cameras.

--
To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.

In article ,
Richard Knoppow wrote:

I don't think the Copal is any more accurate or
consistent than the later Compurs. They are relatively new
shutters so one doesn't encounter a 75 year old precision
machine that has worn beyond being accurate. Copal shutters
are very good but I have heard of new ones that are off
speed. They may be rare but it can happen.

I am a bit hesitant to do so, since he's almost always right, but I
have to disagree with Richard about this one.

Modern Copal shutters are okay. Meticuloutly maintained Compur shutters
are okay. But "okay" in this sense, to me, means only that they are
reasonably consistent about what speed they actually fire at for a given
marking.

It does *not* mean that they actually fire at the speeds marked on the
rim or dial. I have yet to see even a brand-new Copal be within 20% of
marked speed for *every* speed out of the box. As far as I can tell, with
these designs it simply does not happen. You can adjust them to be dead
on, or at least close, at either high or low speeds -- but not both.

Few mechanical shutters are really that good. The Supermatic, which is
of course only available in very small sizes, can be. The Wollensak
Rapax, though it tends to require a lot of maintenance, usually is. And
that's about all. I don't believe that any current or recent production
shutter is actually this good.

--
Thor Lancelot Simon

"The inconsistency is startling, though admittedly, if consistency is to be
abandoned or transcended, there is no problem." - Noam Chomsky