R2880 and RedRiver Paper

On 10-11-30 11:55 , Savageduck wrote:
On 2010-11-30 05:17:56 -0800, Bruce said:

David Kerber wrote:
In article , docnews2011
@gmail.com says...

Savageduck wrote:

It was recommended to me to try Red River Paper with my new R2880.
So I
got their Pigment Ink Sample Kit of various papers.
They provide ICC profiles for Epson/Canon/HP printers.

I have tried a few test prints and I can say I am duly impressed.
Their
66lb. Polar Pearl Metallic (PPM) has given me results I could not even
dream of with my old i9900 and the best Canon papers. It also
impresses
over Epson Premium Glossy.

Their other papers are also very nice, but that PPM is just amazing.
http://www.redrivercatalog.com/


A word of caution.

Using third party paper and/or ink voids the Epson warranty.

Ink I could understand, but 3rd-party paper???


Who says there has to be any logic in this? Epson's warranty is
conditional on using Epson-approved ink and paper.

Epson doesn't approve third party inks or papers, so that means using
only Epson products. Period.

Completely wrong "Bruce". In the Epson manual they talk about using 3rd
party paper, calibration procedures for 3rd party paper, etc.

On ink they are mute - but they do not declare against it in the
warranty (Tony Cooper's link). OTOH, one would be foolish to use 3rd
party paper. A former colleague opened an ink mail order business and
has tried to get me to switch - but I won't. He sells a 3rd party ink
for the high end Epson printers to commercial printers who save a lot of
money that way. Not worth the aggravation (profiles) for me.

Epson is in the business of selling printer supplies. Remember fear and
implied threats work.

Epson don't even use fear or implies threats in their manual other than
the possibility that 3rd party papers can't be guaranteed by Epson to be
the same, batch to batch or otherwise over time (Implying their paper is
controlled in that sense).

It would be marketing suicide to say that you can only use their paper
in their printers.

They claim to have their printers optimized to perform best with their
papers, as that is what they are selling. If you have a performance
complaint and you have used a 3rd party paper, they will tell you, "We
cannot guarantee performance of our printers if you do not follow our
recommendation to use our inks and paper."

If you have a printer issue due to mechanical problem, Epson inks, or
Epson software/drivers, and you are using Epson inks exclusively, you
will not have a warranty voiding problem. I am not about to use 3rd
party inks.

Otherwise If I can produce as good or better print with a 3rd party
paper using Epson inks (which Red River sells) Why must I lock myself
into Epson papers exclusively when they have no way of knowing what
paper I am using unless I tell them?

The result I got with the Red River Polar Pearl Metallic was just
astonishing, and I can see myself using it for specific prints in the
future.

--
gmail originated posts filtered due to spam.

On 10-11-30 12:02 , Savageduck wrote:
On 2010-11-30 08:38:24 -0800, Alan Browne
said:

On 10-11-29 21:48 , Savageduck wrote:
It was recommended to me to try Red River Paper with my new R2880. So I
got their Pigment Ink Sample Kit of various papers.
They provide ICC profiles for Epson/Canon/HP printers.

I have tried a few test prints and I can say I am duly impressed. Their
66lb. Polar Pearl Metallic (PPM) has given me results I could not even
dream of with my old i9900 and the best Canon papers. It also impresses
over Epson Premium Glossy.

Their other papers are also very nice, but that PPM is just amazing.
http://www.redrivercatalog.com/

I have some Red River Ultra Pro Satin waiting in Plattsburgh NY for me
in various sizes (8.5x11, 13x90 and 17x25). Shipping to Canada is
pretty expensive at that weight (21#), esp. with the UPS brokerage
ripoff on value (or tedious workaround).

I've held off on the PPM, though a friend gets impressive results with
it. Next order, perhaps.

I screwed up though - ordered it for delivery last week. But due to TG
in the US it was only delivered in Plattsburgh yesterday - I'll go
fetch it on Saturday.

Try the PPM. It is impressive.
I placed an order for some PPM, UPSatin, and UPGloss of various sizes.

Aah! Plattsburgh! I just hope the weather holds for you.

It's an easy drive (1.5 hours, 1/3 of which is crossing Montreal [plus
US customs which can get long, but I'll probably back road it to a
smaller post]) and the mail point is just off the interstate a few
blocks. Just no good places to eat there.

--
gmail originated posts filtered due to spam.

On 2010-11-30 09:00:20 -0800, Alan Browne
said:

On 10-11-30 9:11 , tony cooper wrote:
On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 11:01:42 +0000,
wrote:

wrote:

It was recommended to me to try Red River Paper with my new R2880. So I
got their Pigment Ink Sample Kit of various papers.
They provide ICC profiles for Epson/Canon/HP printers.

I have tried a few test prints and I can say I am duly impressed. Their
66lb. Polar Pearl Metallic (PPM) has given me results I could not even
dream of with my old i9900 and the best Canon papers. It also impresses
over Epson Premium Glossy.

Their other papers are also very nice, but that PPM is just amazing.
http://www.redrivercatalog.com/


A word of caution.

Using third party paper and/or ink voids the Epson warranty.

Page 128 of the Epson manual: "Since the quality of ant partiucular
brand or type of paper may be changed by the manufacturer at any time,
Epson cannot attest to the quality of any non-Epson brand or type of
paper. Always test samples of paper stock before purchassing large
quantities or printing large jobs."

Doesn't sound like a warranty void to me.

Ink: no. Though a specific problem caused by non-Epson ink is not
covered - and returning to Epson ink might result in an awful lot of
ink cost to flush out the other ink.

Tony Cooper's link (below) also is mute on non-Epson paper and ink.



It does? Here is the Epson warranty:
http://files.support.epson.com/pdf/pho22_/pho22_wa.pdf

There is no statement that using third party paper and/or ink voids
the warranty.

There is a statement that the warranty does not cover problems caused
by "interaction with NON-Epson products", but the warranty is not
voided for this. I fail to see how use of a non-Epson paper would
cause a printer failure.

There are three specific types of paper that the Epson 3800 (and I
assume 2880, 3880 as well) warning placard on the auto sheet feeder
says not to use:
- Ultra Smooth Fine Art Paper
- Velvet Fine Art Paper
- Water Color Radiant White.

From the R2880 manual page #30 there is no such restriction on the use
of those papers.

file:///Applications/Epson%20Software/Guide/spr2880_e/wwhelp/wwhimpl/js/html/wwhelp.htm


Reading from my R2880 warranty it states the following;
"This warranty does not cover any color change or fading of prints or
reimbursement of materials or services required for reprinting. This
warranty does not cover damage to the Epson product caused by parts or
supplies not manufactured, distributed or certified by Epson. This
warranty does not cover ribbons, ink cartridges or third party parts,
components, or peripheral devices added to the Epson product after its
shipment from Epson, e.g., dealer added boards or components."

Also regarding ink there is the following note; "We recommend using
genuine Epson cartridges and do not refill them."


Not sure if those can be used on the manual feeder (it's packed away so
I can't go look right now), or when front loading - the front loader
has no warning placard so I think the other one applies only to auto
sheet feeder.

I assume this for feed issues (eg: loads several sheets at a time,
skewing, alignment, etc.) rather than damage to the machine. A friend
of mine, a pro, used a particular type and size of paper and that
consistently caused ink splatter in the margin area (that one type and
size). I took the same paper onto my identical 3800 - no issue.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 2010-11-30 09:20:04 -0800, Alan Browne
said:

On 10-11-30 11:55 , Savageduck wrote:
On 2010-11-30 05:17:56 -0800, Bruce said:

David Kerber wrote:
In article , docnews2011
@gmail.com says...

Savageduck wrote:

It was recommended to me to try Red River Paper with my new R2880.
So I
got their Pigment Ink Sample Kit of various papers.
They provide ICC profiles for Epson/Canon/HP printers.

I have tried a few test prints and I can say I am duly impressed.
Their
66lb. Polar Pearl Metallic (PPM) has given me results I could not even
dream of with my old i9900 and the best Canon papers. It also
impresses
over Epson Premium Glossy.

Their other papers are also very nice, but that PPM is just amazing.
http://www.redrivercatalog.com/


A word of caution.

Using third party paper and/or ink voids the Epson warranty.

Ink I could understand, but 3rd-party paper???


Who says there has to be any logic in this? Epson's warranty is
conditional on using Epson-approved ink and paper.

Epson doesn't approve third party inks or papers, so that means using
only Epson products. Period.

Completely wrong "Bruce". In the Epson manual they talk about using
3rd party paper, calibration procedures for 3rd party paper, etc.

On ink they are mute - but they do not declare against it in the
warranty (Tony Cooper's link). OTOH, one would be foolish to use 3rd
party paper.

Did you mean 3rd party ink?

A former colleague opened an ink mail order business and has tried to
get me to switch - but I won't. He sells a 3rd party ink for the high
end Epson printers to commercial printers who save a lot of money that
way. Not worth the aggravation (profiles) for me.

Epson is in the business of selling printer supplies. Remember fear and
implied threats work.

Epson don't even use fear or implies threats in their manual

Well, they have Bruce going on that.

other than the possibility that 3rd party papers can't be guaranteed by
Epson to be the same, batch to batch or otherwise over time (Implying
their paper is controlled in that sense).

They don't really even say that.

It would be marketing suicide to say that you can only use their paper
in their printers.

They claim to have their printers optimized to perform best with their
papers, as that is what they are selling. If you have a performance
complaint and you have used a 3rd party paper, they will tell you, "We
cannot guarantee performance of our printers if you do not follow our
recommendation to use our inks and paper."

If you have a printer issue due to mechanical problem, Epson inks, or
Epson software/drivers, and you are using Epson inks exclusively, you
will not have a warranty voiding problem. I am not about to use 3rd
party inks.

Otherwise If I can produce as good or better print with a 3rd party
paper using Epson inks (which Red River sells) Why must I lock myself
into Epson papers exclusively when they have no way of knowing what
paper I am using unless I tell them?

The result I got with the Red River Polar Pearl Metallic was just
astonishing, and I can see myself using it for specific prints in the
future.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 2010-11-30 09:07:33 -0800, John McWilliams said:

On 11/30/10 PDT 8:37 AM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2010-11-30 03:01:42 -0800, Bruce said:

Savageduck wrote:

It was recommended to me to try Red River Paper with my new R2880. So I
got their Pigment Ink Sample Kit of various papers.
They provide ICC profiles for Epson/Canon/HP printers.

I have tried a few test prints and I can say I am duly impressed. Their
66lb. Polar Pearl Metallic (PPM) has given me results I could not even
dream of with my old i9900 and the best Canon papers. It also impresses
over Epson Premium Glossy.

Their other papers are also very nice, but that PPM is just amazing.
http://www.redrivercatalog.com/


A word of caution.

Using third party paper and/or ink voids the Epson warranty.



I am using Epson inks, and Red River recommends using Epson inks with
Epson printers, Canon inks with Canon printers, and HP inks with HP
printer.

I cannot see how using other papers void warranty, ink yes, paper is silly.

Quite. But see my admonition re sand paper......

Then I guess it is a good thing I am not reaching for that texture in
my prints.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 2010-11-30 09:22:42 -0800, Alan Browne
said:

On 10-11-30 12:02 , Savageduck wrote:
On 2010-11-30 08:38:24 -0800, Alan Browne
said:

On 10-11-29 21:48 , Savageduck wrote:
It was recommended to me to try Red River Paper with my new R2880. So I
got their Pigment Ink Sample Kit of various papers.
They provide ICC profiles for Epson/Canon/HP printers.

I have tried a few test prints and I can say I am duly impressed. Their
66lb. Polar Pearl Metallic (PPM) has given me results I could not even
dream of with my old i9900 and the best Canon papers. It also impresses
over Epson Premium Glossy.

Their other papers are also very nice, but that PPM is just amazing.
http://www.redrivercatalog.com/

I have some Red River Ultra Pro Satin waiting in Plattsburgh NY for me
in various sizes (8.5x11, 13x90 and 17x25). Shipping to Canada is
pretty expensive at that weight (21#), esp. with the UPS brokerage
ripoff on value (or tedious workaround).

I've held off on the PPM, though a friend gets impressive results with
it. Next order, perhaps.

I screwed up though - ordered it for delivery last week. But due to TG
in the US it was only delivered in Plattsburgh yesterday - I'll go
fetch it on Saturday.

Try the PPM. It is impressive.
I placed an order for some PPM, UPSatin, and UPGloss of various sizes.

Aah! Plattsburgh! I just hope the weather holds for you.

It's an easy drive (1.5 hours, 1/3 of which is crossing Montreal [plus
US customs which can get long, but I'll probably back road it to a
smaller post]) and the mail point is just off the interstate a few
blocks. Just no good places to eat there.

I used to live in Inlet NY right in the middle of the Adirondacks. We
made those backroad runs up to either Malone or Massena, depending on
whim or weather, to cross into Canada at Cornwall.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 2010-11-30 09:25:30 -0800, Savageduck said:

On 2010-11-30 09:00:20 -0800, Alan Browne
said:


From the R2880 manual page #30 there is no such restriction on the use
of those papers.

file:///Applications/Epson%20Software/Guide/spr2880_e/wwhelp/wwhimpl/js/html/wwhelp.htm

Sorry

about that here is the appropriate page;
http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Page30.jpg



Reading from my R2880 warranty it states the following;
"This warranty does not cover any color change or fading of prints or
reimbursement of materials or services required for reprinting. This
warranty does not cover damage to the Epson product caused by parts or
supplies not manufactured, distributed or certified by Epson. This
warranty does not cover ribbons, ink cartridges or third party parts,
components, or peripheral devices added to the Epson product after its
shipment from Epson, e.g., dealer added boards or components."

Also regarding ink there is the following note; "We recommend using
genuine Epson cartridges and do not refill them."


Not sure if those can be used on the manual feeder (it's packed away so
I can't go look right now), or when front loading - the front loader
has no warning placard so I think the other one applies only to auto
sheet feeder.

I assume this for feed issues (eg: loads several sheets at a time,
skewing, alignment, etc.) rather than damage to the machine. A friend
of mine, a pro, used a particular type and size of paper and that
consistently caused ink splatter in the margin area (that one type and
size). I took the same paper onto my identical 3800 - no issue.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 10-11-30 12:30 , Savageduck wrote:
On 2010-11-30 09:20:04 -0800, Alan Browne
said:

On 10-11-30 11:55 , Savageduck wrote:
On 2010-11-30 05:17:56 -0800, Bruce said:

David Kerber wrote:
In article , docnews2011
@gmail.com says...

Savageduck wrote:

It was recommended to me to try Red River Paper with my new R2880.
So I
got their Pigment Ink Sample Kit of various papers.
They provide ICC profiles for Epson/Canon/HP printers.

I have tried a few test prints and I can say I am duly impressed.
Their
66lb. Polar Pearl Metallic (PPM) has given me results I could not
even
dream of with my old i9900 and the best Canon papers. It also
impresses
over Epson Premium Glossy.

Their other papers are also very nice, but that PPM is just amazing.
http://www.redrivercatalog.com/


A word of caution.

Using third party paper and/or ink voids the Epson warranty.

Ink I could understand, but 3rd-party paper???


Who says there has to be any logic in this? Epson's warranty is
conditional on using Epson-approved ink and paper.

Epson doesn't approve third party inks or papers, so that means using
only Epson products. Period.

Completely wrong "Bruce". In the Epson manual they talk about using
3rd party paper, calibration procedures for 3rd party paper, etc.

On ink they are mute - but they do not declare against it in the
warranty (Tony Cooper's link). OTOH, one would be foolish to use 3rd
party paper.

Did you mean 3rd party ink?

OF COURSE I DID! If I meant "paper" I would of have said "ink".

Do keep up!

/blush


A former colleague opened an ink mail order business and has tried to
get me to switch - but I won't. He sells a 3rd party ink for the high
end Epson printers to commercial printers who save a lot of money that
way. Not worth the aggravation (profiles) for me.

Epson is in the business of selling printer supplies. Remember fear and
implied threats work.

Epson don't even use fear or implies threats in their manual

Well, they have Bruce going on that.

other than the possibility that 3rd party papers can't be guaranteed
by Epson to be the same, batch to batch or otherwise over time
(Implying their paper is controlled in that sense).

They don't really even say that.

It would be marketing suicide to say that you can only use their paper
in their printers.

They claim to have their printers optimized to perform best with their
papers, as that is what they are selling. If you have a performance
complaint and you have used a 3rd party paper, they will tell you, "We
cannot guarantee performance of our printers if you do not follow our
recommendation to use our inks and paper."

If you have a printer issue due to mechanical problem, Epson inks, or
Epson software/drivers, and you are using Epson inks exclusively, you
will not have a warranty voiding problem. I am not about to use 3rd
party inks.

Otherwise If I can produce as good or better print with a 3rd party
paper using Epson inks (which Red River sells) Why must I lock myself
into Epson papers exclusively when they have no way of knowing what
paper I am using unless I tell them?

The result I got with the Red River Polar Pearl Metallic was just
astonishing, and I can see myself using it for specific prints in the
future.




--
gmail originated posts filtered due to spam.

On 10-11-30 12:25 , Savageduck wrote:
On 2010-11-30 09:00:20 -0800, Alan Browne
said:

On 10-11-30 9:11 , tony cooper wrote:
On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 11:01:42 +0000,
wrote:

wrote:

It was recommended to me to try Red River Paper with my new R2880.
So I
got their Pigment Ink Sample Kit of various papers.
They provide ICC profiles for Epson/Canon/HP printers.

I have tried a few test prints and I can say I am duly impressed.
Their
66lb. Polar Pearl Metallic (PPM) has given me results I could not even
dream of with my old i9900 and the best Canon papers. It also
impresses
over Epson Premium Glossy.

Their other papers are also very nice, but that PPM is just amazing.
http://www.redrivercatalog.com/


A word of caution.

Using third party paper and/or ink voids the Epson warranty.

Page 128 of the Epson manual: "Since the quality of ant partiucular
brand or type of paper may be changed by the manufacturer at any time,
Epson cannot attest to the quality of any non-Epson brand or type of
paper. Always test samples of paper stock before purchassing large
quantities or printing large jobs."

Doesn't sound like a warranty void to me.

Ink: no. Though a specific problem caused by non-Epson ink is not
covered - and returning to Epson ink might result in an awful lot of
ink cost to flush out the other ink.

Tony Cooper's link (below) also is mute on non-Epson paper and ink.



It does? Here is the Epson warranty:
http://files.support.epson.com/pdf/pho22_/pho22_wa.pdf

There is no statement that using third party paper and/or ink voids
the warranty.

There is a statement that the warranty does not cover problems caused
by "interaction with NON-Epson products", but the warranty is not
voided for this. I fail to see how use of a non-Epson paper would
cause a printer failure.

There are three specific types of paper that the Epson 3800 (and I
assume 2880, 3880 as well) warning placard on the auto sheet feeder
says not to use:
- Ultra Smooth Fine Art Paper
- Velvet Fine Art Paper
- Water Color Radiant White.

From the R2880 manual page #30 there is no such restriction on the use
of those papers.

Take a look at the feeder, not the manual. It doesn't say a word about
that in my manual - but it is placarded on the auto sheet feeder.


file:///Applications/Epson%20Software/Guide/spr2880_e/wwhelp/wwhimpl/js/html/wwhelp.htm



Reading from my R2880 warranty it states the following;
"This warranty does not cover any color change or fading of prints or
reimbursement of materials or services required for reprinting. This
warranty does not cover damage to the Epson product caused by parts or
supplies not manufactured, distributed or certified by Epson. This
warranty does not cover ribbons, ink cartridges or third party parts,
components, or peripheral devices added to the Epson product after its
shipment from Epson, e.g., dealer added boards or components."

Also regarding ink there is the following note; "We recommend using
genuine Epson cartridges and do not refill them."

Hardly a call to voided warranties - but _very good_ advice. One would
have to be a fool to use non-Epson paper.

;-)




--
gmail originated posts filtered due to spam.

On 2010-11-30 09:39:16 -0800, Bruce said:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2010-11-30 03:01:42 -0800, Bruce said:
Savageduck wrote:

It was recommended to me to try Red River Paper with my new R2880. So I
got their Pigment Ink Sample Kit of various papers.
They provide ICC profiles for Epson/Canon/HP printers.

I have tried a few test prints and I can say I am duly impressed. Their
66lb. Polar Pearl Metallic (PPM) has given me results I could not even
dream of with my old i9900 and the best Canon papers. It also impresses
over Epson Premium Glossy.

Their other papers are also very nice, but that PPM is just amazing.
http://www.redrivercatalog.com/


A word of caution.

Using third party paper and/or ink voids the Epson warranty.



I am using Epson inks, and Red River recommends using Epson inks with
Epson printers, Canon inks with Canon printers, and HP inks with HP
printer.

I cannot see how using other papers void warranty, ink yes, paper is silly.


Several years ago, a colleague had problems with his Epson 2400
printer and returned it for warranty service. He was asked what paper
he had used - no need to ask what ink as he had left the Epson inks in
the machine. He admitted using a third party paper and was then
charged the full cost of the repair.

I believe he should have challenged that, with the written warranty in
hand. I have found nothing in the Epson warranty stating the use of
third party paper would void their that warranty in any way.
I believe that service center played the, "you didn't use our paper, so
you are SOL and have to pay" card.


He queried the charge with Epson but was given written confirmation
that using non-Epson paper voided the warranty.

Something doesn't sound right with that. Did that written confirmation
come from the service center performing the repair? Did you actually
see that written confirmation, or was it hearsay on the part of your
colleague?

Obviously, he wishes
he had never told Epson that he used third party paper. :-(

There is a lesson there. "Why I NEVER use anything but Epson paper!" :-)


I accept that this was several years ago and in a different country to
yours, but it happened. And that's why my advice is always to use
Epson inks *and* papers.

It would be strange if there is a different warranty in the UK to that
found on the product sold in the US.


There's another reason for me to do it; I offer customers a limited
warranty against fading of my 2400 and 2880 prints. That warranty is
underwritten by Epson - it only applies to Epson inks and papers.

In my R2880 warranty Epson specifically states;
"This warranty does not cover any color change or fading of prints or
reimbursement of materials or services required for reprinting."

....and that is regardless of ink or paper used. So I think you are on
your own with your print "limited warranty." That is your burden to
bear.


However, I do appreciate that other paper manufacturers may offer
products that give results which some individuals prefer.


--
Regards,

Savageduck