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What exposure mode do you shoot in.



 
 
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  #31  
Old December 9th 05, 11:50 PM posted to rec.photo.technique.nature
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Default What exposure mode do you shoot in.

Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark) wrote:
Since you use an F1, perhaps you have high standards.
So when comparing to modern cameras, do it with the pro line.
I found my canon D60 and 10D were about as good (at metering)
as elans and other consumer film cameras. But now I use a 1D Mark II
and the metering is outstanding in comparison to those
consumer models.

Also, I still use totally manual cameras: 4x5 view cameras.

Roger


I have played around with some of the early EOS's ie: EOS 1 and EOS 3 and
found them to be less of a camera and less reliable and accurate than the
late model F 1's they replaced. I think this is why I went back to the F1
and other shooters have grasped the new high end digitals. The F1 is a
manual camera and one has to think about it (no modes) and one has to add an
expensive drive to action shots.

My late F1 is one of the last years they produced and the accuracy of the
meter is fantastic, even by todays standards. You could not trade me a half
dozen EOS 3's for my F1 AE. I still have so much fun and great success with
it, I have never saw a reason to upgrade to digital. I don't mind film and I
don't mind waiting for Fuji to send my slides.

If I ever upgraded to a digital, I would have to spend thousands for the
camera that I feel would replace my F1. I don't have thousands to spend and
buying a lesser camera, Even the Canon 20 D is not a replacement in my book
for my F1 and I think I would be down grading a big step, hense my steadfast
in staying shooting F1's. My old F1 is well brassed. I have found a few NEW
in Box F1's on Ebay for around 1100 bucks. This is more than the sold for in
the late 80's but I would rather spend the 10000 bucks or more for another F1
new in box than any digital camera produced. And I have such a large
collection of quality glass for FD mount cameras, I and just content to stay
the course.

F1

--
Message posted via PhotoKB.com
http://www.photokb.com/Uwe/Forums.as...ature/200512/1
  #32  
Old December 19th 05, 07:11 PM posted to rec.photo.technique.nature
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Default What exposure mode do you shoot in.

"Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark)" wrote in
message ...
Norm Dresner wrote:


Most of the later Nikon's (N75, N90, F100, D50, D70) have a program-mode
which can be varied with the "command dial" to any equivalent exposure
just by twirling it. I spend most of the time in P-mode but look at
every exposure and modify it as necessary. I find that most of the time
I can't stay in either S- or A-modes because the things I'm shooting are
so varied.

Norm


Norm,
I do not understand. In aperture or shutter priority modes, one has
complete control of the settings: you choose the exact aperture or
shutter, and the camera choose the other. You then use the compensation
dial to modify the cameras "best exposure." In P mode, the camera
chooses the aperture and shutter based on some pre-programmed
table. You have compensation control, but only over a very
narrow range compared to all apertures and shutter speeds, and
the compensation modifies both aperture and shutter according
to a formula for which you do not have control.

So aperture or shutter priority modes have the most flexibility,
unequaled by any other mode, and only surpassed by full manual.
At least this is the way it is on canon film and dslrs.

Roger


Roger -- sorry to be so late in responding but life doesn't always follow
the plans we make.

Anyway:
1. In P-mode with both film and digital Nikon SLRs and even my EVF camera,
I can choose any equivalent exposure (shutter speed/aperture combination)
the camera allows which gives me complete control over motion-stopping and
depth of field. I also apply exposure compensation (+/-) on top of this to
correct for situations in which the light fools the meter.
2. Since most of the time now I'm shooting as a "tourist" with no
correlation of subject or lighting from one shot to the next, I can't decide
in advance whether A or S would be more appropriate for my "next" shot.
3. If I get into a situation in which there's a high degree of similarity
between shooting conditions from one frame to the next, I'll most likely
switch to either "A" or "S" as appropriate -- e.g. "S" when shooting from a
moving car or playing grandchildren and "A" when walking around a flower
garden.
4. With 50+ years of experience, I've learned to be very conscious of the
settings the camera chooses for *each* shot (assuming it's not an unexpected
grab-shot) and I think I never press the shutter release without looking at
both the speed and the aperture first. At least by keeping the camera in
P-mode, I'm guaranteed that I'll get something reasonable when I don't have
time to do anything else.
5. I'd estimate that only about 1/3 of the pictures I take are actually at
the first P-mode setting and that I change the exposure to something
equivalent the rest of the time, at least for the first exposure on a
digital -- then I look at the LCD and determine if exposure compensation is
also required, though sometimes I'll just go that way for the first shot as
well based on prior experience and prior results.
6. When I use MF & LF cameras, I always work at the equivalent of M-mode
since none of my larger-than-35mm cameras has even an internal meter.

Do I recommend that everyone shoot the way I do. Hell, NO! But after
decades of shooting in a large variety of situations on three continents,
I've found that the older I get the more selective I am about what I shoot
and I can take the time to modify each exposure to suit the shot. That
said, I feel that P-mode gets me "close" and I feel comfortable using that
as a starting point.

Norm

  #33  
Old December 20th 05, 06:28 AM posted to rec.photo.technique.nature
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Posts: n/a
Default What exposure mode do you shoot in.

"Norm Dresner" wrote:
1. In P-mode with both film and digital Nikon SLRs and even my EVF camera,
I can choose any equivalent exposure (shutter speed/aperture combination)
the camera allows which gives me complete control over motion-stopping and
depth of field. I also apply exposure compensation (+/-) on top of this to
correct for situations in which the light fools the meter.


That doesn't make sense. In Program Mode the camera chooses
both speed and aperture, and you have *no* control at all. If
you apply exposure compensation, the *camera* decides whether to
change speed, aperture, or both. You have *no* control over
that choice.

That is as opposed to either Shutter or Aperture Priority Mode,
where you *do* have control, because you can preset one or the
other and the camera (either automatically or in response to
changes in the exposure compensation settings) changes the
other. Or, of course, Manual Mode where you set everything.

2. Since most of the time now I'm shooting as a "tourist" with no
correlation of subject or lighting from one shot to the next, I can't decide
in advance whether A or S would be more appropriate for my "next" shot.


Which is exactly what Program Mode is for, and you let the
camera totally decide everything.

3. If I get into a situation in which there's a high degree of similarity
between shooting conditions from one frame to the next, I'll most likely
switch to either "A" or "S" as appropriate -- e.g. "S" when shooting from a
moving car or playing grandchildren and "A" when walking around a flower
garden.


I don't see the correlation to "a high degree of similarity".
What you meant, I think, is that in situations where you want
more flexibility because the required exposure does not fit into
the "average" situation where the Program Mode will be
correct, you switch to one or the other of the more flexible
modes.

4. With 50+ years of experience, I've learned to be very conscious of the
settings the camera chooses for *each* shot (assuming it's not an unexpected


Then why would you ever want to use Program Mode?

grab-shot) and I think I never press the shutter release without looking at
both the speed and the aperture first. At least by keeping the camera in
P-mode, I'm guaranteed that I'll get something reasonable when I don't have
time to do anything else.


Why bother looking if you aren't inclined to make adjustments
and instead are looking for "guaranteed ... reasonable"?

5. I'd estimate that only about 1/3 of the pictures I take are actually at
the first P-mode setting and that I change the exposure to something
equivalent the rest of the time, at least for the first exposure on a
digital -- then I look at the LCD and determine if exposure compensation is
also required, though sometimes I'll just go that way for the first shot as
well based on prior experience and prior results.


That certainly is reasonable. But it doesn't match your
description above! In practice *this* (using Program Mode)
is exactly what you want to do when there is a series of very
similar shots to be made. You don't need flexibility...

6. When I use MF & LF cameras, I always work at the equivalent of M-mode
since none of my larger-than-35mm cameras has even an internal meter.

Do I recommend that everyone shoot the way I do. Hell, NO! But after
decades of shooting in a large variety of situations on three continents,
I've found that the older I get the more selective I am about what I shoot
and I can take the time to modify each exposure to suit the shot. That
said, I feel that P-mode gets me "close" and I feel comfortable using that
as a starting point.


That sounds very reasonable, and is essentially what I do most
of the time too. Program Mode gets me close, and shows me what
I'm working with. But more often than not, one look at what it
is and I know that I want either Aperture, Shutter, or Manual
mode instead of Program Mode.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
  #34  
Old December 20th 05, 11:41 PM posted to rec.photo.technique.nature
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Posts: n/a
Default What exposure mode do you shoot in.

"Floyd Davidson" wrote in message
...
"Norm Dresner" wrote:
1. In P-mode with both film and digital Nikon SLRs and even my EVF
camera,
I can choose any equivalent exposure (shutter speed/aperture combination)
the camera allows which gives me complete control over motion-stopping and
depth of field. I also apply exposure compensation (+/-) on top of this
to
correct for situations in which the light fools the meter.


That doesn't make sense. In Program Mode the camera chooses
both speed and aperture, and you have *no* control at all. If
you apply exposure compensation, the *camera* decides whether to
change speed, aperture, or both. You have *no* control over
that choice.


Floyd. With Nikon N75, N90, F100, and D70 SLR's in P-mode, the so-called
"command-dial" is used to cycle through all possible equivalent exposures
(shutter-speed/lens aperture combinations). My Nikon 5400 EVF has a similar
capability. I have as much control as I choose to exercise.


That is as opposed to either Shutter or Aperture Priority Mode,
where you *do* have control, because you can preset one or the
other and the camera (either automatically or in response to
changes in the exposure compensation settings) changes the
other. Or, of course, Manual Mode where you set everything.

2. Since most of the time now I'm shooting as a "tourist" with no
correlation of subject or lighting from one shot to the next, I can't
decide
in advance whether A or S would be more appropriate for my "next" shot.


Which is exactly what Program Mode is for, and you let the
camera totally decide everything.


No. See answer to #1.


3. If I get into a situation in which there's a high degree of similarity
between shooting conditions from one frame to the next, I'll most likely
switch to either "A" or "S" as appropriate -- e.g. "S" when shooting from
a
moving car or playing grandchildren and "A" when walking around a flower
garden.


I don't see the correlation to "a high degree of similarity".
What you meant, I think, is that in situations where you want
more flexibility because the required exposure does not fit into
the "average" situation where the Program Mode will be
correct, you switch to one or the other of the more flexible
modes.


When I'm walking around, say Venice or New York and taking pictures of
things ranging from buildings to store window displays, there's no way to
predict in advance whether I'll want a S- or A-priority for the next
exposure in advance. When I'm walking around a botanical garden or an
alpine pasture, I pretty well know that each successive shot is very likely
going to be the same kind of subject and that I'll need the same basic
mode -- and probably want to preset a most-likely aperture as well.
Similarly, when I'm traveling by train or car through the Colorado/New
Mexico countryside, I know in advance that just about every shot will need a
S-priority to brevent blur caused by the motion of the vehicle.


4. With 50+ years of experience, I've learned to be very conscious of the
settings the camera chooses for *each* shot (assuming it's not an
unexpected


Then why would you ever want to use Program Mode?


I want to use P-Mode becuase it generally gets me "close" to the
speed/aperture combination I want. Not always, but generally close.

grab-shot) and I think I never press the shutter release without looking
at
both the speed and the aperture first. At least by keeping the camera in
P-mode, I'm guaranteed that I'll get something reasonable when I don't
have
time to do anything else.


Why bother looking if you aren't inclined to make adjustments
and instead are looking for "guaranteed ... reasonable"?


Huh?


5. I'd estimate that only about 1/3 of the pictures I take are actually
at
the first P-mode setting and that I change the exposure to something
equivalent the rest of the time, at least for the first exposure on a
digital -- then I look at the LCD and determine if exposure compensation
is
also required, though sometimes I'll just go that way for the first shot
as
well based on prior experience and prior results.


That certainly is reasonable. But it doesn't match your
description above! In practice *this* (using Program Mode)
is exactly what you want to do when there is a series of very
similar shots to be made. You don't need flexibility...

6. When I use MF & LF cameras, I always work at the equivalent of M-mode
since none of my larger-than-35mm cameras has even an internal meter.

Do I recommend that everyone shoot the way I do. Hell, NO! But after
decades of shooting in a large variety of situations on three continents,
I've found that the older I get the more selective I am about what I shoot
and I can take the time to modify each exposure to suit the shot. That
said, I feel that P-mode gets me "close" and I feel comfortable using that
as a starting point.


That sounds very reasonable, and is essentially what I do most
of the time too. Program Mode gets me close, and shows me what
I'm working with. But more often than not, one look at what it
is and I know that I want either Aperture, Shutter, or Manual
mode instead of Program Mode.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)


  #35  
Old December 21st 05, 06:43 AM posted to rec.photo.technique.nature
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default What exposure mode do you shoot in.

"Norm Dresner" wrote:
"Floyd Davidson" wrote:
"Norm Dresner" wrote:
1. In P-mode with both film and digital Nikon SLRs and even
my EVF camera,
I can choose any equivalent exposure (shutter speed/aperture combination)
the camera allows which gives me complete control over motion-stopping and
depth of field. I also apply exposure compensation (+/-) on
top of this to
correct for situations in which the light fools the meter.


That doesn't make sense. In Program Mode the camera chooses
both speed and aperture, and you have *no* control at all. If
you apply exposure compensation, the *camera* decides whether to
change speed, aperture, or both. You have *no* control over
that choice.


Floyd. With Nikon N75, N90, F100, and D70 SLR's in P-mode, the so-called
"command-dial" is used to cycle through all possible equivalent exposures
(shutter-speed/lens aperture combinations). My Nikon 5400 EVF has a similar
capability. I have as much control as I choose to exercise.


Okay. My bad... that is very different from the Nikons that I'm
familiar with.

....

3. If I get into a situation in which there's a high degree of similarity
between shooting conditions from one frame to the next, I'll most likely
switch to either "A" or "S" as appropriate -- e.g. "S" when
shooting from a
moving car or playing grandchildren and "A" when walking around a flower
garden.


I don't see the correlation to "a high degree of similarity".
What you meant, I think, is that in situations where you want
more flexibility because the required exposure does not fit into
the "average" situation where the Program Mode will be
correct, you switch to one or the other of the more flexible
modes.


When I'm walking around, say Venice or New York and taking pictures of
things ranging from buildings to store window displays, there's no way to
predict in advance whether I'll want a S- or A-priority for the next
exposure in advance. When I'm walking around a botanical garden or an
alpine pasture, I pretty well know that each successive shot is very likely
going to be the same kind of subject and that I'll need the same basic
mode -- and probably want to preset a most-likely aperture as well.


That's my point exactly. It is not a "high degree of similarity" in
the images, or even in the settings, but rather in what kind of additional
flexibility you'll need.

Do I recommend that everyone shoot the way I do. Hell, NO! But after
decades of shooting in a large variety of situations on three continents,
I've found that the older I get the more selective I am about what I shoot
and I can take the time to modify each exposure to suit the shot. That
said, I feel that P-mode gets me "close" and I feel comfortable using that
as a starting point.


That sounds very reasonable, and is essentially what I do most
of the time too. Program Mode gets me close, and shows me what
I'm working with. But more often than not, one look at what it
is and I know that I want either Aperture, Shutter, or Manual
mode instead of Program Mode.


Our differences are on how to choose wording that draws an image
in the readers mind of what we are doing; and not so much that
the image itself is any different, just the words.

I certainly do *not* mean to be critical of your photographic
methods, nor of your results. I probably should have made that
more obvious in the previous article.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
  #36  
Old December 21st 05, 09:35 AM posted to rec.photo.technique.nature
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default What exposure mode do you shoot in.

In message ,
"Norm Dresner" wrote:

I want to use P-Mode becuase it generally gets me "close" to the
speed/aperture combination I want. Not always, but generally close.


I've recently tried P-Mode again with my newest Canon DSLR after not
using it since I first tried out my Sony F707 in early 2002, and I was
rather impressed with the choices it made (compared to my expectations).

What I've been wishing for, for a while now, are user-programmable
modes, where you supply a list of Av, Tv, and ISO combinations for
absolute EV levels. If you find yourself making the same decisons in
the same situations all the time, the process can be easily automated
this way. I find myself, in general, choosing Tv mode when light is
low, and Av when light is high, to avoid camera-motion blur, and
diffraction, respectively. A user-programmable mode would allow me to
have hybrid modes, with transition points of my own choosing. At the
low-light, Tv end, I could allow exposure to drop by a stop or two when
the highest ISO has been called upon, before opening the lens all the
way up, and this could alternatively be based upon the actual lens used,
as anything present in EXIF data on a digital is known to the camera.
Also, the specifics of the lens could be used to control minimum shutter
speed, as well. I don't know if the camera knows about image
stabilization in lens-based IS systems, but that would be useful, too,
in "non-action" user modes.

It might take a while to work out your modes, but with a little work,
you could make the camera do pretty much what you would be doing anyway,
if you had time to think about it, but there isn't always time. In many
wildlife situations, a tenth of a second is an epoch.
--


John P Sheehy

  #37  
Old December 21st 05, 05:42 PM posted to rec.photo.technique.nature
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default What exposure mode do you shoot in.

wrote in message
...
In message ,
"Norm Dresner" wrote:

I want to use P-Mode becuase it generally gets me "close" to the
speed/aperture combination I want. Not always, but generally close.


I've recently tried P-Mode again with my newest Canon DSLR after not
using it since I first tried out my Sony F707 in early 2002, and I was
rather impressed with the choices it made (compared to my expectations).

What I've been wishing for, for a while now, are user-programmable
modes, where you supply a list of Av, Tv, and ISO combinations for
absolute EV levels.

[BIG SNIP]

Using P-Mode in the newer Nikon cameras, the camera's choice of shutter
speed is definitely biased by the focal length of the lens (or zoom
setting). That already removes some really pressing need for user
customization.

Perhaps if the camera's "brain" also used input from the focus subsystem on
the motion of the "subject", it might go a long way toward making a really
intelligent choice of shutter speed -- but that's too much to ask for in
today's market where the cost of things like the CPUs and their associated
memory and communications channels are a not insignificant percentage of the
total manufacturing cost of a digital camera.

I don't think that a really intelligent automated choice of F/stop can be
made because it's probably going to be impossible for any reasonable image
analysis software that could run in an embedded processor in a camera is
able to distinguish between a portrait of a person for which shallow D-o-F
is usually desirable from a photograph of a similarly sized mechanical
product or large botanical where much larger D-o-F is preferred.

These comments are based on my decades of experience in the computer field
as both a hardware and software engineer, not just on my preferences as a
photographer. Sure, in, say, 20 years we'll probably have 100 GHz embedded
CPUs with terabytes of program memory that will analyze everything the
camera is pointed at and make a really intelligent selection of exposure
parameters. But certainly not in the next 5-10 years. For that, we'll
still need the old Mark 1 Grey Matter to make the "right choices" (more
properly, to chose the best compromise).

Norm

  #38  
Old December 25th 05, 04:49 AM posted to rec.photo.technique.nature
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default What exposure mode do you shoot in.

Canon F1 via PhotoKB.com wrote:

Again, shooting in modes can only lead to problems. It does not allow you
to situate the anmals, birds, fish , bugs or whatever, where you want in the
frame and meter, focus and shoot without agravation. I can get a meter
reading off the elk, moose or whatever and my information is set, I set the
camera according to what I want to do and forget about the rest leaving me to
pay more attention to exposing film and capturing moments how I see fit and
when I see fit.


Modes will only screw you up.

F1



I don't think anyone is suggesting that you park the camera at f8 for
the whole day.

When shooting anything other than long exposures, my T-90 (much better
than the lowly F1! ) lives on Av and multi-spot settings. Take a
spot reading or three, add any exposure compensation, and, after due
consideration, select the aperture I want. If the resultant shutter
speed is livable, I'm done. How on earth is this going to screw me up?

While I can see that someone using a stand-alone light meter might find
full manual just as fast, manual makes little sense (IMO) when using
flexible AV or TV TTL metering. With older cameras that won't
'transfer' exposure data when changing f-stops or shutter speed, I can
see how AV or TV might be more trouble. Perhaps this is what you're
chomping at(?)

If I had to shoot in manual mode, I'm sure I could get quite good at
transcribing the meter's f/shutter recipe to a version I prefer
(specific stop or speed). But why bother when the camera can do it all
with the twirl of a knob? (It would make a nice mental excersise, but
would also be a bit of a distraction.)

-Greg


 




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