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Reasons for preferring the D5000 over the 500D
This is contentious, as the EOS 500D is a fine camera in its own right.
I decided that I won't wait for Sony to introduce their first D-movie SLR as I want to experiment more with HD video. 1080p or not 1080p, that was the question... Start with the first image, view these still clips and read the captions (view the images at full size too, but the captions then disappear in pBase typical fashion to the middle of the bottom of the shots): http://www.pbase.com/davidkilpatrick/dmovie_stills I ordered a D5000 18-55mm kit from Cecil Jacobs for £639 with a free bag and a half price 8GB SD. I spent a couple of hours studying the footage shot with the EOS 500D and the D5000, and even phoned Canon to ask whether an upgrade would be done for the 500D to provide full control of aperture, shutter and ISO (as has been done last week for the 5D MkII). This they could not say. The ultimate test was to enlarge various D5000 720p vids to fill the 1080p size, using QuickTime Player and just dragging the window to fill my iMac 24 inch screen. I could not find a single Canon 1080p vid which matched the level of fine detail present in the Nikon shots when enlarged. Also, with the Nikon I was able to set fast shutter speeds to film horse racing, and the stopped frames were as sharp as similar sized JPEGs. My buying decision was not based on owned equipment - I have a Canon 400D with a 75-300mm IS USM I have already tried with good results for video, and I own no Nikon lenses. So it was a REAL problem. A 500D would immediately have given me an outfit - and 15.2 megapixels. But I already have Sony 24 megapixels and a cupboard full of superb glass so that was not a real issue. I wanted to shoot video. The 24fps 720p of the Nikon appears, to me, to be providing more real useful image detail than either the 720p 30fps or 1080p 20fps of the Canon - along with a colour quality I think I prefer, usable freeze frame still quality, the potential to enlarge to 1080p with apparently equal or better results. I did check the (very few, inadquate) clips I shot with the D90 and also concluded that the D5000 was giving a slightly better result, otherwise I would definitely have got the D90+18-105mm kit for about £150 more. The lack of control over shutter, aperture or ISO settings with the Canon was the ultimate deal-breaker. I plan to get hold of a 35mm f/1.8 (none in stock) after testing this with the D5000 for the BJP - it was a lovely little lens, fantastic for video work. But any such lens is next to useless if you can not control the aperture setting. There are aspects of the Canon - the quality of the sound recording, and the usefulness of the stills, and the high ISO performance - which I would dearly like to have. But I can only afford one camera, and Nikon got the sale. David |
#2
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Reasons for preferring the D5000 over the 500D
Marty Fremen wrote:
Try shooting at standard def. (720x480 or 640x480) with either camera and then upsample it for comparison. Not tried the 640 x 480 standard - it might actually be a very good basic video standard for some uses. The Nikon is limited to 5 minute clips, which is not enough for some concert/gig recording. For that, I have a Kodak Zi6 pocket gizmo, and it's great for just being able to film at 720p until the card is full. David |
#3
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Reasons for preferring the D5000 over the 500D
David Kilpatrick wrote:
Marty Fremen wrote: Try shooting at standard def. (720x480 or 640x480) with either camera and then upsample it for comparison. Not tried the 640 x 480 standard - it might actually be a very good basic video standard for some uses. The Nikon is limited to 5 minute clips, which is not enough for some concert/gig recording. For that, I have a Kodak Zi6 pocket gizmo, and it's great for just being able to film at 720p until the card is full. David Could you name a band that plays continuously for more than 5 minutes please? |
#4
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Reasons for preferring the D5000 over the 500D
DMac wrote:
David Kilpatrick wrote: Marty Fremen wrote: Try shooting at standard def. (720x480 or 640x480) with either camera and then upsample it for comparison. Not tried the 640 x 480 standard - it might actually be a very good basic video standard for some uses. The Nikon is limited to 5 minute clips, which is not enough for some concert/gig recording. For that, I have a Kodak Zi6 pocket gizmo, and it's great for just being able to film at 720p until the card is full. David Could you name a band that plays continuously for more than 5 minutes please? Just the other night I was at a concert at Davies Hall in SF, CA, and 'the band' played a Schubert piece far in excess of five minutes. But they couldn't finish the symphony in any event. -- john mcwilliams "Baldrick, you wouldn't recognize a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord singing 'Subtle Plans Are Here Again'." -- Blackadder |
#5
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Reasons for preferring the D5000 over the 500D
John McWilliams wrote:
DMac wrote: David Kilpatrick wrote: Marty Fremen wrote: Try shooting at standard def. (720x480 or 640x480) with either camera and then upsample it for comparison. Not tried the 640 x 480 standard - it might actually be a very good basic video standard for some uses. The Nikon is limited to 5 minute clips, which is not enough for some concert/gig recording. For that, I have a Kodak Zi6 pocket gizmo, and it's great for just being able to film at 720p until the card is full. David Could you name a band that plays continuously for more than 5 minutes please? Just the other night I was at a concert at Davies Hall in SF, CA, and 'the band' played a Schubert piece far in excess of five minutes. But they couldn't finish the symphony in any event. Oh why did I expect the now famous and soon to be immortal John McWilliams would come up with an answer! |
#6
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Reasons for preferring the D5000 over the 500D
On 2009-06-02 20:26:51 -0700, DMac said:
John McWilliams wrote: DMac wrote: David Kilpatrick wrote: Marty Fremen wrote: Try shooting at standard def. (720x480 or 640x480) with either camera and then upsample it for comparison. Not tried the 640 x 480 standard - it might actually be a very good basic video standard for some uses. The Nikon is limited to 5 minute clips, which is not enough for some concert/gig recording. For that, I have a Kodak Zi6 pocket gizmo, and it's great for just being able to film at 720p until the card is full. David Could you name a band that plays continuously for more than 5 minutes please? Just the other night I was at a concert at Davies Hall in SF, CA, and 'the band' played a Schubert piece far in excess of five minutes. But they couldn't finish the symphony in any event. Oh why did I expect the now famous and soon to be immortal John McWilliams would come up with an answer! Well if you exclude the classics, there are several contemporary groups/musicians who play continuously for more than 5 minutes, just for starters I give you Phish, The Dave Matthews Band, Steely Dan, Bob Dylan, Richard Thompson and quite a few more. -- Regards, Savageduck |
#7
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Reasons for preferring the D5000 over the 500D
On 2009-06-02 20:26:51 -0700, DMac said:
John McWilliams wrote: DMac wrote: David Kilpatrick wrote: Marty Fremen wrote: Try shooting at standard def. (720x480 or 640x480) with either camera and then upsample it for comparison. Not tried the 640 x 480 standard - it might actually be a very good basic video standard for some uses. The Nikon is limited to 5 minute clips, which is not enough for some concert/gig recording. For that, I have a Kodak Zi6 pocket gizmo, and it's great for just being able to film at 720p until the card is full. David Could you name a band that plays continuously for more than 5 minutes please? Just the other night I was at a concert at Davies Hall in SF, CA, and 'the band' played a Schubert piece far in excess of five minutes. But they couldn't finish the symphony in any event. Oh why did I expect the now famous and soon to be immortal John McWilliams would come up with an answer! ....and here is a 10 or so minute piece by Phish http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWT6DB0oAjQ -- Regards, Savageduck |
#8
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Reasons for preferring the D5000 over the 500D
Marty Fremen wrote:
David Kilpatrick wrote: The 24fps 720p of the Nikon appears, to me, to be providing more real useful image detail than either the 720p 30fps or 1080p 20fps of the Canon Some compact cameras claiming to offer HD video have been determined in reviews just to be upsampling standard def. video, it sounds like the Canon is doing the same. Try shooting at standard def. (720x480 or 640x480) with either camera and then upsample it for comparison. Mmy suspicion is the so- called HD Canon images will have no more detail than the upsampled standard def ones. My suspicion is that people who buy SLRs to use as video cameras aren't very smart. -- Ray Fischer |
#9
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Reasons for preferring the D5000 over the 500D
Ray Fischer wrote:
Marty Fremen wrote: David Kilpatrick wrote: The 24fps 720p of the Nikon appears, to me, to be providing more real useful image detail than either the 720p 30fps or 1080p 20fps of the Canon Some compact cameras claiming to offer HD video have been determined in reviews just to be upsampling standard def. video, it sounds like the Canon is doing the same. Try shooting at standard def. (720x480 or 640x480) with either camera and then upsample it for comparison. Mmy suspicion is the so- called HD Canon images will have no more detail than the upsampled standard def ones. My suspicion is that people who buy SLRs to use as video cameras aren't very smart. I found a whole new use for movie making with a DSLR that has my D90 running rings around the Pro level JVC video camera I also own... But only up to a point! Probably these current models are just showing us what we can expect in the future. The real video camera's movies are excellent when played on a home cinema screen. The DSLR movies are pretty good on a domestic plasma screen. The difference is, unfortunately, quite noticeable at the larger viewing sizes. All these DSLRs squash the raw 1.5 Gbps HD data down to as little as 235 Mbps (for an SD card) in order to work. Kind of like JPEG compression used in early digital P&S cameras. The DSLR output looks fine until you compare it to that from a "real" HD video camera that uses minimal compression. One day the RED camera ( http://www.red.com/cameras/ -- $27,000 for a body and one lens) that doesn't compress it's data will become affordable but until then, I believe there is a definite use for DSLR movie making. It sure as hell isn't making movies for sale to TV stations or for big screen stuff. Having said all that... I can hand hold a DSLR as a bride and groom exchange rings or do the bridal waltz or cake cutting and blended the clips into a DVD production. These clips produce a presentation some people say is a viable replacement for a wedding video. I don't but they add value to my product. I could recommend using a DSLR movie camera with a 5 minute limitation for producing promo videos for a band. The quality of a Promo is, after all in the editing, not just how long the thing runs. I haven't made one but from my experience I believe a good editor using something like Proshow Producer or Adobe Premier (with some tinkering to handle MOV files) could cobble together a 15 minute presentation of a band using 5 minute clips and stills that would be more than just passable. You couldn't however, expect to have it used by a TV station for HD broadcasting. That's a whole different ball game. |
#10
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Reasons for preferring the D5000 over the 500D
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