7x17 ULF users - short lenses?

"Christopher Perez" wrote in
message . ..
OK, I'm like a kid in a candy store. The photoswap last
weekend helped me empty my toy fund. Sold a couple
things. Bought a couple things. Now I need to sell a
couple things. But that's over in another newsgroup or
two.

For this group, I've looked here, on photo.net, and over
at Tuan's site about 7x17 format and lenses that cover.
Here's what I see thus far:

* Computar 210mm f/9
* Computar 240mm f/9
* 240mm Zeiss Dagor (not the Goerz version)
* Kodak 250mm Wide Field Ektar f/6.3
* Computar 270mm f/9
* 270mm Goerz Dagor
* 305mm f/9 Schneider GClaron

Did I miss anything that might be easily found in a modern
shutter?

I also followed discussions on the 250 Fuji W f/6.7 and
its ability to cover the 7x17 format. Some say yes. Others
say definitely not. Anyone have direct personal experience
using a 250 Fuji on an old 7x17 Korona?

Thanks - Chris

The diagonal is about 18-1/2 inches, or about 470mm. For
a 250mm lens this is about 86 degrees. For this focal length
you really need a wide angle lens. The Kodak Wide Field
Ektar will be marginal here but will probably just cover it.
The 305mm G-Claron should be OK. I am not sure what type the
f/9 Computars are. If they are the Super Angulon types they
should cover OK.
What exactly do you consider a modern shutter? Compound
shutters were made until the 1980's and are quite reliable.
They are air-brake shutters originating about 1905 so are
not exactly modern. Copal shutters are the only ones that
have been made in any quantity for the last decade or so.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

"Christopher Perez" wrote in
message . ..
OK, I'm like a kid in a candy store. The photoswap last
weekend helped me empty my toy fund. Sold a couple
things. Bought a couple things. Now I need to sell a
couple things. But that's over in another newsgroup or
two.

For this group, I've looked here, on photo.net, and over
at Tuan's site about 7x17 format and lenses that cover.
Here's what I see thus far:

* Computar 210mm f/9
* Computar 240mm f/9
* 240mm Zeiss Dagor (not the Goerz version)
* Kodak 250mm Wide Field Ektar f/6.3
* Computar 270mm f/9
* 270mm Goerz Dagor
* 305mm f/9 Schneider GClaron

Did I miss anything that might be easily found in a modern
shutter?

I also followed discussions on the 250 Fuji W f/6.7 and
its ability to cover the 7x17 format. Some say yes. Others
say definitely not. Anyone have direct personal experience
using a 250 Fuji on an old 7x17 Korona?

Thanks - Chris

The diagonal is about 18-1/2 inches, or about 470mm. For
a 250mm lens this is about 86 degrees. For this focal length
you really need a wide angle lens. The Kodak Wide Field
Ektar will be marginal here but will probably just cover it.
The 305mm G-Claron should be OK. I am not sure what type the
f/9 Computars are. If they are the Super Angulon types they
should cover OK.
What exactly do you consider a modern shutter? Compound
shutters were made until the 1980's and are quite reliable.
They are air-brake shutters originating about 1905 so are
not exactly modern. Copal shutters are the only ones that
have been made in any quantity for the last decade or so.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

Computars are not Biogon/Super Angulon types. They're some other
design. Maybe a modified plasmat? Some people say the 210 f/9 covers
the 7x17inch format. It sounds like the lens was mounted in a barrel.
Other people say the 210mm f/9 covers only 390mm. It sounded like that
lens was mounted in a #1 Copal shutter. Some 210 Computar may "cover"
7x17 with acceptable resolution to make contact prints. And some don't.
At least this is what it seems from reading peoples comments on the topic.

By modern I was thinking Compurs and Copals and maybe Seiko shutters.

Not modern means #5 Ilex. I found a 250mm Wide Field Ektar f/6.3 in a
dodgey #5. "B" and "T" work well. And the higher shutter speeds seem
about right. But the slow speed gear train is messed up and 1 sec gives
about 1/8th or 1/4th sec. Since the glass is clean and clear (no marks
of any kind) and since I'm picking it up for an appropriate price (given
the condition of the shutter), maybe I should just use the lens and not
bitch and moan too much. :-)

Thanks to for their insight - Chris

Richard Knoppow wrote:
....
The diagonal is about 18-1/2 inches, or about 470mm. For
a 250mm lens this is about 86 degrees. For this focal length
you really need a wide angle lens. The Kodak Wide Field
Ektar will be marginal here but will probably just cover it.
The 305mm G-Claron should be OK. I am not sure what type the
f/9 Computars are. If they are the Super Angulon types they
should cover OK.
What exactly do you consider a modern shutter? Compound
shutters were made until the 1980's and are quite reliable.
They are air-brake shutters originating about 1905 so are
not exactly modern. Copal shutters are the only ones that
have been made in any quantity for the last decade or so.

Computars are not Biogon/Super Angulon types. They're some other
design. Maybe a modified plasmat? Some people say the 210 f/9 covers
the 7x17inch format. It sounds like the lens was mounted in a barrel.
Other people say the 210mm f/9 covers only 390mm. It sounded like that
lens was mounted in a #1 Copal shutter. Some 210 Computar may "cover"
7x17 with acceptable resolution to make contact prints. And some don't.
At least this is what it seems from reading peoples comments on the topic.

By modern I was thinking Compurs and Copals and maybe Seiko shutters.

Not modern means #5 Ilex. I found a 250mm Wide Field Ektar f/6.3 in a
dodgey #5. "B" and "T" work well. And the higher shutter speeds seem
about right. But the slow speed gear train is messed up and 1 sec gives
about 1/8th or 1/4th sec. Since the glass is clean and clear (no marks
of any kind) and since I'm picking it up for an appropriate price (given
the condition of the shutter), maybe I should just use the lens and not
bitch and moan too much. :-)

Thanks to for their insight - Chris

Richard Knoppow wrote:
....
The diagonal is about 18-1/2 inches, or about 470mm. For
a 250mm lens this is about 86 degrees. For this focal length
you really need a wide angle lens. The Kodak Wide Field
Ektar will be marginal here but will probably just cover it.
The 305mm G-Claron should be OK. I am not sure what type the
f/9 Computars are. If they are the Super Angulon types they
should cover OK.
What exactly do you consider a modern shutter? Compound
shutters were made until the 1980's and are quite reliable.
They are air-brake shutters originating about 1905 so are
not exactly modern. Copal shutters are the only ones that
have been made in any quantity for the last decade or so.

The Ilex #5 is a good shutter!! No Copal but I suspect you may be using the
bulb feature a lot anyway for DOF. Send it off for a CLA---There is an ebay
listing for a LF shutter CLA for $45. This is the same as does Dagor 77's
high dollar ebay lenses in shutters. I think SK Grimes is $85. I have a 24"
RD Artar in Ilex 5 and Its great --Not a Copal 3 but a very nice shutter.! I
wouln't bitch---at least until after you've tried it----unlike my wife!! Did
I say that?
J Burke

The Ilex #5 is a good shutter!! No Copal but I suspect you may be using the
bulb feature a lot anyway for DOF. Send it off for a CLA---There is an ebay
listing for a LF shutter CLA for $45. This is the same as does Dagor 77's
high dollar ebay lenses in shutters. I think SK Grimes is $85. I have a 24"
RD Artar in Ilex 5 and Its great --Not a Copal 3 but a very nice shutter.! I
wouln't bitch---at least until after you've tried it----unlike my wife!! Did
I say that?
J Burke

Good points. I shall bitch not! :-)

The 250 WFEktar is one of those lenses I've wanted to try from time to
time. Afterall, if it's good enough for St. Ansel, it'll be better than
I'll ever be. Your comments about using "B" most of the time are well
taken.

At this point, for the 7x17, I will soon have 250 Fuji W f/6.7 (yes, I'm
going to try it, just as soon as I get my new darkroom completed), 250
WFEktar, 305 GClaron, and a nice 355 GClaron. This is probably all
overkill. But... I couldn't help myself... I'm beyond help... I know...

Again, thanks for everyone's thoughts and comments on the topic.


- Chris

Jos. Burke wrote:

The Ilex #5 is a good shutter!! No Copal but I suspect you may be using the
bulb feature a lot anyway for DOF. Send it off for a CLA---There is an ebay
listing for a LF shutter CLA for $45. This is the same as does Dagor 77's
high dollar ebay lenses in shutters. I think SK Grimes is $85. I have a 24"
RD Artar in Ilex 5 and Its great --Not a Copal 3 but a very nice shutter.! I
wouln't bitch---at least until after you've tried it----unlike my wife!! Did
I say that?
J Burke

"Christopher Perez" wrote in
message . ..
Computars are not Biogon/Super Angulon types. They're
some other design. Maybe a modified plasmat? Some people
say the 210 f/9 covers the 7x17inch format. It sounds
like the lens was mounted in a barrel. Other people say
the 210mm f/9 covers only 390mm. It sounded like that
lens was mounted in a #1 Copal shutter. Some 210 Computar
may "cover" 7x17 with acceptable resolution to make
contact prints. And some don't. At least this is what it
seems from reading peoples comments on the topic.

By modern I was thinking Compurs and Copals and maybe
Seiko shutters.

Not modern means #5 Ilex. I found a 250mm Wide Field
Ektar f/6.3 in a dodgey #5. "B" and "T" work well. And
the higher shutter speeds seem about right. But the slow
speed gear train is messed up and 1 sec gives about 1/8th
or 1/4th sec. Since the glass is clean and clear (no
marks of any kind) and since I'm picking it up for an
appropriate price (given the condition of the shutter),
maybe I should just use the lens and not bitch and moan
too much. :-)

Thanks to for their insight - Chris

Richard Knoppow wrote:
...
The diagonal is about 18-1/2 inches, or about 470mm.
For a 250mm lens this is about 86 degrees. For this focal
length you really need a wide angle lens. The Kodak Wide
Field Ektar will be marginal here but will probably just
cover it. The 305mm G-Claron should be OK. I am not sure
what type the f/9 Computars are. If they are the Super
Angulon types they should cover OK.
What exactly do you consider a modern shutter?
Compound shutters were made until the 1980's and are
quite reliable. They are air-brake shutters originating
about 1905 so are not exactly modern. Copal shutters are
the only ones that have been made in any quantity for the
last decade or so.

I found the Computar on Mike Gudzonowicz's list at
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenseslist.html

He lists it as a Plasmat with am image circle of 325mm.
This was a wide-angle process lens. WA process lenses are
wide angle in comparison to the usual process lens which has
very narrow coverage (45 or 50 degrees) but it is not a wide
angle lens in the usual sense (90 degrees or more). This
image circle is about 75.5 degrees. From the diagonal
calculated in my last post its not going to cover at all.
I believe these lenses were built by Kowa, who made some
very good lenses.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

"Christopher Perez" wrote in
message . ..
Computars are not Biogon/Super Angulon types. They're
some other design. Maybe a modified plasmat? Some people
say the 210 f/9 covers the 7x17inch format. It sounds
like the lens was mounted in a barrel. Other people say
the 210mm f/9 covers only 390mm. It sounded like that
lens was mounted in a #1 Copal shutter. Some 210 Computar
may "cover" 7x17 with acceptable resolution to make
contact prints. And some don't. At least this is what it
seems from reading peoples comments on the topic.

By modern I was thinking Compurs and Copals and maybe
Seiko shutters.

Not modern means #5 Ilex. I found a 250mm Wide Field
Ektar f/6.3 in a dodgey #5. "B" and "T" work well. And
the higher shutter speeds seem about right. But the slow
speed gear train is messed up and 1 sec gives about 1/8th
or 1/4th sec. Since the glass is clean and clear (no
marks of any kind) and since I'm picking it up for an
appropriate price (given the condition of the shutter),
maybe I should just use the lens and not bitch and moan
too much. :-)

Thanks to for their insight - Chris

Richard Knoppow wrote:
...
The diagonal is about 18-1/2 inches, or about 470mm.
For a 250mm lens this is about 86 degrees. For this focal
length you really need a wide angle lens. The Kodak Wide
Field Ektar will be marginal here but will probably just
cover it. The 305mm G-Claron should be OK. I am not sure
what type the f/9 Computars are. If they are the Super
Angulon types they should cover OK.
What exactly do you consider a modern shutter?
Compound shutters were made until the 1980's and are
quite reliable. They are air-brake shutters originating
about 1905 so are not exactly modern. Copal shutters are
the only ones that have been made in any quantity for the
last decade or so.

I found the Computar on Mike Gudzonowicz's list at
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenseslist.html

He lists it as a Plasmat with am image circle of 325mm.
This was a wide-angle process lens. WA process lenses are
wide angle in comparison to the usual process lens which has
very narrow coverage (45 or 50 degrees) but it is not a wide
angle lens in the usual sense (90 degrees or more). This
image circle is about 75.5 degrees. From the diagonal
calculated in my last post its not going to cover at all.
I believe these lenses were built by Kowa, who made some
very good lenses.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

"Christopher Perez" wrote in
message . ..
Computars are not Biogon/Super Angulon types. They're
some other design. Maybe a modified plasmat? Some people
say the 210 f/9 covers the 7x17inch format. It sounds
like the lens was mounted in a barrel. Other people say
the 210mm f/9 covers only 390mm. It sounded like that
lens was mounted in a #1 Copal shutter. Some 210 Computar
may "cover" 7x17 with acceptable resolution to make
contact prints. And some don't. At least this is what it
seems from reading peoples comments on the topic.

By modern I was thinking Compurs and Copals and maybe
Seiko shutters.

Not modern means #5 Ilex. I found a 250mm Wide Field
Ektar f/6.3 in a dodgey #5. "B" and "T" work well. And
the higher shutter speeds seem about right. But the slow
speed gear train is messed up and 1 sec gives about 1/8th
or 1/4th sec. Since the glass is clean and clear (no
marks of any kind) and since I'm picking it up for an
appropriate price (given the condition of the shutter),
maybe I should just use the lens and not bitch and moan
too much. :-)

Thanks to for their insight - Chris

Richard Knoppow wrote:
...
The diagonal is about 18-1/2 inches, or about 470mm.
For a 250mm lens this is about 86 degrees. For this focal
length you really need a wide angle lens. The Kodak Wide
Field Ektar will be marginal here but will probably just
cover it. The 305mm G-Claron should be OK. I am not sure
what type the f/9 Computars are. If they are the Super
Angulon types they should cover OK.
What exactly do you consider a modern shutter?
Compound shutters were made until the 1980's and are
quite reliable. They are air-brake shutters originating
about 1905 so are not exactly modern. Copal shutters are
the only ones that have been made in any quantity for the
last decade or so.

I found the Computar on Mike Gudzonowicz's list at
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenseslist.html

He lists it as a Plasmat with am image circle of 325mm.
This was a wide-angle process lens. WA process lenses are
wide angle in comparison to the usual process lens which has
very narrow coverage (45 or 50 degrees) but it is not a wide
angle lens in the usual sense (90 degrees or more). This
image circle is about 75.5 degrees. From the diagonal
calculated in my last post its not going to cover at all.
I believe these lenses were built by Kowa, who made some
very good lenses.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA