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#1
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Tri-X @ 1600 and D23 ??
Hello,
has anyone ever tried developing Tri-X (new version) pushed to 1600 in D23? I can't seem to find the developing times anywhere. Regards Magdalena |
#2
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Tri-X @ 1600 and D23 ??
Magdalena W. wrote:
Hello, has anyone ever tried developing Tri-X (new version) pushed to 1600 in D23? I can't seem to find the developing times anywhere. Maybe with good reason. D23 is a soft working developer needing about 1/2 stop more exposure than D76. It is not the thing I'd use to push a fast film for two stops. Maybe it can be done, but I wouldn't try it. Use something with phenidone in it like Xtol or Microphen. Martin |
#3
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Tri-X @ 1600 and D23 ??
"Baz" wrote in message ... Martin Jangowski wrote: Maybe with good reason. D23 is a soft working developer needing about 1/2 stop more exposure than D76. It is not the thing I'd use to push a fast film for two stops. Maybe it can be done, but I wouldn't try it. Use something with phenidone in it like Xtol or Microphen. Please tell us why one shouldn't use a brew only because you wouldn't. D23 is strong enough to carry out a job even in push conditions. It minimizes grain, can push up shads without blocking highs anyway, better than D76. Nevertheless, one must test _before_ with a scratch roll shooted in conditions as close as possible to the final situation, a common [I underline] way to see if a brew meets his own requirements. And if any stuff posted here has a snap point with truth. You can overdevelop Tri-X in any developer and get the midtone speed up to 1600. However, the shadow speed will still be appreciably lower with D-23 than with something like Xtol. Different developers do give slightly different true speed. |
#4
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Tri-X @ 1600 and D23 ??
"Magdalena W." wrote in message ...
Hello, has anyone ever tried developing Tri-X (new version) pushed to 1600 in D23? I can't seem to find the developing times anywhere. Regards Magdalena The speed of Tri-X in D23 is about 250. If you need 1600, try T-Max 3200. |
#5
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Tri-X @ 1600 and D23 ??
Magdalena W. wrote:
Hello, has anyone ever tried developing Tri-X (new version) pushed to 1600 in D23? I can't seem to find the developing times anywhere. In a world that includes Diafine, why would you go to this kind of trouble to get 400TX to EI 1600? Three minutes in Bath A, three minutes in Bath B, water stop, and fix. You're hanging the film before D-23 would be through developing it for a two-stop push, and you get better shadow detail, about a full stop of toe speed increase (so your contrast looks like a one-stop push, not two stops). Of course, if you're trying for grain that looks like driveway gravel, you want a low-solvent developer; try HC-110 Dilution G (1:119 from USA syrup), stand developed for 90 minutes. -- I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz! -- E. J. Fudd, 1954 Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth and don't expect them to be perfect. |
#6
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Tri-X @ 1600 and D23 ??
Baz wrote:
Martin Jangowski wrote: Maybe with good reason. D23 is a soft working developer needing about 1/2 stop more exposure than D76. It is not the thing I'd use to push a fast film for two stops. Maybe it can be done, but I wouldn't try it. Use something with phenidone in it like Xtol or Microphen. Please tell us why one shouldn't use a brew only because you wouldn't. Because pushing is a bad idea anyway, and pushing with the wrong tools is a worse idea. A T-Max 3200 or a Delta 3200 has enough speed without going to extremes. D23 is strong enough to carry out a job even in push conditions. It minimizes grain, can push up shads without blocking highs anyway, better than D76. Nevertheless, one must test _before_ with a scratch roll shooted in conditions as close as possible to the final situation, a common [I underline] way to see if a brew meets his own requirements. And if any stuff posted here has a snap point with truth. Well, I made tests like this (with real live objects and sensitometric measurements)... and found that the advantage of D23 is that it's easy to mix and not much more. It has about the same characteristics as D76, just a little slower. I'm sure you can use it to go to astronomical speeds with any film (why not use PanF@128000...), but there are just better tools for this. Martin |
#7
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Tri-X @ 1600 and D23 ??
Uzytkownik "Donald Qualls" napisal w wiadomosci In a world that includes Diafine, why would you go to this kind of trouble to get 400TX to EI 1600? Because in my world (Poland, new member of the EU ) we have heard of Diafine, but not laid our hands on it And yes, I realize there are films such as Tmax 3200 (personally I hate Delta), but sometimes you're in a situation where you need and want to take photos in poor light conditions - and the only thing you have in your Domke is a few rolls of TX (because that's the stuff I always carry). D23 is better (IMHO) than ID 11 for developing TX. So that's why I asked about specifically that combination. Thanks anyway Magdalena |
#8
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Tri-X @ 1600 and D23 ??
Użytkownik "Baz" napisał w wiadomo¶ci try cook it this way: twenty celsius degrees for about fourteen minutes std agitation, if you're on a difflight source. but maybe that eighteen-twenty same temp 1+1 D23/water will raise up shads a bit without loose highs. Thanks, I'll follow your advice. Fortunately I do have a coldlight enlarger, so it should work well. I think D23 is right to cutoff some grain from tx. TX defintely looks better in D23 than in Id 11/D76. And the less grainy look is what I want. Actually, for me, TX + D23 seems to be the "golden standard" Thanks for your advice Regards, Magdalena |
#9
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Tri-X @ 1600 and D23 ??
"Magdalena W." wrote in message ... Hello, has anyone ever tried developing Tri-X (new version) pushed to 1600 in D23? I can't seem to find the developing times anywhere. Regards Magdalena Pushing any film 2 stops is going to be marginal no matter what developer is used. The ISO speed of a film is about its maximum for good shadow detail. What happens when film is pushed is that the overall contrast is raised. Of course the toe, or shadow part of the curve, is also increased in contrast. This gives the effect of higher speed for the shadows but results in excessive contrast for parts of the film receiving anything like normal exposure. Tri-X roll and 35mm film, i.e., the ISO-400 stuff, pushes reasonably well but you would do better with a faster film like T-Max P3200 or Ilford's equivalent. These are films with ISO speeds of around 800 to 1000 but which deliver good quality when pushed. There is some variation in the speed delivered by various developers. D-76/ID-11 is the benchmark. Some Phenidone containing developers will deliver about 3/4 stop greater speed (depending on the film) for a given contrast index. Among such developers are Kodak T-Max and T-Max RS, Kodak Xtol, Ilford Microphen. Some developers lose a little speed, Rodinal is an example. D-23 and D-76 have very similar properties other than D-76 has greater capacity. ] Generally pushing film will increase the grain. There is not much that can be done here. Probably Xtol is the finest grain of the above, T-Max the best for greatest speed, but coarser grain. The tonal rendition will be distorted regardless of the developer because that comes from the increased overall contrast of pushing. Some mistatements are often made about some developers. The sulfite in D-76 and D-23 acts as a solvent for the silver halide in the emulsion. In these two developers the solvent effect is such that it _increases_ film speed slightly because it makes more development centers in the halide crystals available to the developer. In developers like Microdol-X or D-25, used full strength, which are very inactive, the solvent has time to destroy some of the latent image, lowering the film speed. This does not happen in D-23 or D-76 or other similar developers. The ISO speed of black & white negative films for still cameras is measured in a way that results in the lowest exposure consistent with adequate shadow detail. It assumes an average contrast that is too high for many users. When the contrast is lowered (or raised) the ISO speed is no longer valid. Most films have only about one stop latitude for underexposure but a great many stops (as many as 12 for some films) for overexposure. Latitude is the amount of error in exposure than can be made and still have negatives with good tonal rendition. This is why its better to use a faster film than to push a slower one. At some point the film just runs out of sensitivity and there will be no image regardless of the kind of developer or the amount of development, you will just increase the fog level. For your application I would suggest T-Max P3200 and Xtol. Now, for pushing, the rule of thumb is to increase development time about 1.5 times for about a one stop increase in effective shadow speed. This will also increase overall contrast about one paper grade. For two stops increase time to about double normal, maybe a bit more. This will increse contrast about 2.5 paper grades. The time variation changes with film and developer. Tabular grain films like T-Max, Delta, and Fuji Acros, change contrast faster with time than do conventional films. -- --- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA |
#10
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Tri-X @ 1600 and D23 ??
Magdalena W. wrote:
Uzytkownik "Donald Qualls" napisal w wiadomosci In a world that includes Diafine, why would you go to this kind of trouble to get 400TX to EI 1600? Because in my world (Poland, new member of the EU ) we have heard of Diafine, but not laid our hands on it And yes, I realize there are films such as Tmax 3200 (personally I hate Delta), but sometimes you're in a situation where you need and want to take photos in poor light conditions - and the only thing you have in your Domke is a few rolls of TX (because that's the stuff I always carry). D23 is better (IMHO) than ID 11 for developing TX. So that's why I asked about specifically that combination. If you can't get Diafine, try using HC-110 Dilution G, stand developed (continuous agitation first minute, then *no* agitation for the remainder of the development time) for anywhere from 45 to 90 minutes. With Tri-X, 90 minutes should give EI 1600, with strong compensation to avoid blocked highlights, and with toe speed increased to 640 or 800. Be sure you allow at least 3 ml of USA syrup, or 10 ml of European concentrate, for each 135-36 or 120 roll; use a larger tank with empty reels as spacers if necessary. -- I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz! -- E. J. Fudd, 1954 Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth and don't expect them to be perfect. |
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