Samyang 24mm T/S

"Me" wrote:
On 8/09/2012 3:12 p.m., David J. Littleboy wrote:

"Me" wrote:
responding to various people
No price yet. If it's okay, and the price is affordable, I expect this
could be a great success - there are probably a lot of photographers
like me who'd always wanted a T/S lens, but the entry point price was
high for something which may get occasional use.

"Optical design of Samyang T-S 24mm 1:3.5 ED AS UMC comprises of
sixteen lenses arranged in eleven groups, including two aspherical
lens and two lens made of ED glass with low dispersion factor."

Not withstanding all the good bits, those eleven groups and sixteen
lenses make me a little apprehensive about image contrast. We shall
have to wait and see.

Snap - Canon 24mm f3.5 LII TSE = 16 elements in 11 groups.


Yep. The Canon 24TSE II is a friggin' amazing lens. But it's not the
craziest: the Canon 70-200/2.8 IS II is 23 elements in 19 groups and
everyone loves it. The Zeiss Planar design (1896 or so; 6 elements in 4
groups) was unusable because It had too many surfaces, so the Tessar was
the go to normal lens until the 1950s. Lens coatings really do work.

But Samyang seems to be doing just fine on optical quality, and price.

The only downside of the Samyang lenses appears to be the fully manual
aperture. This is a major pain in the butt; I have several good lenses
that do good work on adapters and simply never get used because it slows
one down so much. If you can't allocate the money for the 24TSE II, you
put up with the manual aperture.

Hopefully the aperture will be auto/body controlled on Nikon slrs.


Ah, I see that you Nikonistas appear to be winning the lottery. Congrats!
*: http://www.photozone.de/nikon_ff/658-samyang3514fx

You are right about the need for low distortion in a TSE lens, though. LR
(and, presumably, most other converters) can automagically fix distortion
for lenses that don't tilt or shift, but if you don't know where the axis
was, you're scrod.

-- David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan

Me wrote:
On 4/09/2012 10:21 a.m., otter wrote:
On Sep 3, 4:34 pm, Me wrote:
http://photorumors.com/wp-content/up...ng-24mm-tilt-s...
This has my attention, no price (but it will probably be pretty cheap).
At a fraction of the price, one of these on a 24mp D600 (yes - I know -
it's "vapourware" as well) might easily make a Nikkor 24mm PC/E on a D3x
seem so... yesterday.
(both could also be abhorrent POS, but I doubt it)

Samyang can make some pretty decent optics:http://tinyurl.com/samyang24TS

Cool! Hope it happens.

Now it's more than a rumour and leaked photo:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/09...ilt-shift-lens

"Tilt-Shift function in Samyang T-S 24mm 1:3.5 ED AS UMC allows for
smooth and individual adjustment of the focus plane angle by +/-8.5 and
enables parallel shift of the optical axis by +/-12 millimeters. To make
Tilt-Shift function even more seamless, both the lens mount as well as
Tilt-Shift section may be rotated on the optical axis. The Tilt-Shift
section may be rotated left by 90 degrees (with 30 degree adjustment),
while mount of the lens may be rotated both in left and right direction
by 90 degrees, also with 30 degree adjustment.

Samyang T-S 24mm 1:3.5 ED AS UMC will be available with mounts for Canon
EF, Nikon F, Pentax K and Sony A. We welcome everyone to visit us at
Photokina at our booth A025 in the hall 2.1."

It is a 35mm format lens.

No price yet. If it's okay, and the price is affordable, I expect this
could be a great success - there are probably a lot of photographers
like me who'd always wanted a T/S lens, but the entry point price was
high for something which may get occasional use.

I often do lens centre shifts (e.g. to make converging verticals
parallel) in software. Looking at the spec of this lens I note 12mm
shift, the same as the Canon equivalent lens. If my guesswork is
correct that means the lens has an image width of 60mm rather than
36mm on a full frame image sensor. But on an APS-C sensor you would be
able to use all of that. I presume the reduction would be proportional.

What doesn't tempt me about a tilt-shift lens is that I'd have to buy
one for each focal length that I use shifts for. Which on my APS-C
image sensor goes down to 8mm. Which it seems you can't get a
tilt-shift lens for anyway.

Nope. I'll just buy more pixels and sharper lenses (if necessary) and
get shift across the lot by software. In fact if in-camera software
continues its development trajectory it shouldn't be long before lens
shift is available in software in the camera. A "fix verticals to
parallel" jpeg option. Which would be available in EVF preview and
fine tunable to amount of correction.

Of course you need excellent low geometric distortion for a shift
function to work well, but such lens-geometry corrections are already
being built in to the latest cameras.

--
Chris Malcolm

On 8/09/2012 4:44 p.m., David J. Littleboy wrote:

"Me" wrote:
On 8/09/2012 3:12 p.m., David J. Littleboy wrote:

"Me" wrote:
responding to various people
No price yet. If it's okay, and the price is affordable, I expect this
could be a great success - there are probably a lot of photographers
like me who'd always wanted a T/S lens, but the entry point price was
high for something which may get occasional use.

"Optical design of Samyang T-S 24mm 1:3.5 ED AS UMC comprises of
sixteen lenses arranged in eleven groups, including two aspherical
lens and two lens made of ED glass with low dispersion factor."

Not withstanding all the good bits, those eleven groups and sixteen
lenses make me a little apprehensive about image contrast. We shall
have to wait and see.

Snap - Canon 24mm f3.5 LII TSE = 16 elements in 11 groups.


Yep. The Canon 24TSE II is a friggin' amazing lens. But it's not the
craziest: the Canon 70-200/2.8 IS II is 23 elements in 19 groups and
everyone loves it. The Zeiss Planar design (1896 or so; 6 elements in 4
groups) was unusable because It had too many surfaces, so the Tessar was
the go to normal lens until the 1950s. Lens coatings really do work.

But Samyang seems to be doing just fine on optical quality, and price.

The only downside of the Samyang lenses appears to be the fully manual
aperture. This is a major pain in the butt; I have several good lenses
that do good work on adapters and simply never get used because it slows
one down so much. If you can't allocate the money for the 24TSE II, you
put up with the manual aperture.

Hopefully the aperture will be auto/body controlled on Nikon slrs.


Ah, I see that you Nikonistas appear to be winning the lottery. Congrats!
*: http://www.photozone.de/nikon_ff/658-samyang3514fx

You are right about the need for low distortion in a TSE lens, though.
LR (and, presumably, most other converters) can automagically fix
distortion for lenses that don't tilt or shift, but if you don't know
where the axis was, you're scrod.

I was a bit optimistic there.
Pretty unlikely it would have auto aperture on the F-mount version - the
mechanical linkage from the stop down lever to the iris would be a bit
of a challenge (understatement).
The "E" in Nikkor PCE lenses is for "electronic aperture".

"Chris Malcolm" wrote in message
...
I often do lens centre shifts (e.g. to make converging verticals
parallel) in software. Looking at the spec of this lens I note 12mm
shift, the same as the Canon equivalent lens. If my guesswork is
correct that means the lens has an image width of 60mm rather than
36mm on a full frame image sensor. But on an APS-C sensor you would be
able to use all of that. I presume the reduction would be proportional.

What doesn't tempt me about a tilt-shift lens is that I'd have to buy
one for each focal length that I use shifts for. Which on my APS-C
image sensor goes down to 8mm. Which it seems you can't get a
tilt-shift lens for anyway.

Nope. I'll just buy more pixels and sharper lenses (if necessary) and
get shift across the lot by software.

Hell I (and many others) were doing the same in the enlarger 40+ years ago.
Certainly easier in PS though :-)
What you can't do is get the camera lens focus plane aligned differently
than the sensor plane like you can with a TS lens however. Using smaller
apertures and/or faux lens blur can help sometimes.


In fact if in-camera software
continues its development trajectory it shouldn't be long before lens
shift is available in software in the camera. A "fix verticals to
parallel" jpeg option. Which would be available in EVF preview and
fine tunable to amount of correction.

I'm often amazed at how much trouble some people will go to while shooting
to avoid using RAW and post processing afterwards.


Of course you need excellent low geometric distortion for a shift
function to work well...

Whether in camera, in post or in lens, but you can still use PS to minimise
it in any case.

Trevor.

On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 16:38:07 +1000, "Trevor" wrote:
:
: "Chris Malcolm" wrote in message
: ...
: In fact if in-camera software
: continues its development trajectory it shouldn't be long before lens
: shift is available in software in the camera. A "fix verticals to
: parallel" jpeg option. Which would be available in EVF preview and
: fine tunable to amount of correction.
:
: I'm often amazed at how much trouble some people will go to while shooting
: to avoid using RAW and post processing afterwards.

I went to a lecture by a newspaper photographer the other night, and he told
us that he usually shoots JPEG, because of time pressures and file size
considerations. He also said he tries to minimize post-processing.

I always shoot RAW myself and invariably have to edit my pictures. But then,
I'm not a newspaper photographer.

Bob

On 2012.09.09 09:33 , Robert Coe wrote:
On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 16:38:07 +1000, "Trevor" wrote:
:

: I'm often amazed at how much trouble some people will go to while shooting
: to avoid using RAW and post processing afterwards.

I went to a lecture by a newspaper photographer the other night, and he told
us that he usually shoots JPEG, because of time pressures and file size
considerations. He also said he tries to minimize post-processing.

That's a truth Trevor can't handle.

--
"C'mon boys, you're not laying pipe!".
-John Keating.

"Robert Coe" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 16:38:07 +1000, "Trevor" wrote:
: "Chris Malcolm" wrote in message
: ...
: In fact if in-camera software
: continues its development trajectory it shouldn't be long before lens
: shift is available in software in the camera. A "fix verticals to
: parallel" jpeg option. Which would be available in EVF preview and
: fine tunable to amount of correction.
:
: I'm often amazed at how much trouble some people will go to while
shooting
: to avoid using RAW and post processing afterwards.

I went to a lecture by a newspaper photographer the other night, and he
told
us that he usually shoots JPEG, because of time pressures and file size
considerations. He also said he tries to minimize post-processing.

I always shoot RAW myself and invariably have to edit my pictures. But
then,
I'm not a newspaper photographer.

I've had photo's published in newspapers, and if immediate shots are needed
I can simply shoot RAW+Jpeg. Once upon a time storage space may have been an
issue for some, but if a photo's worth taking these days, it's worth doing
properly IMO. I simply do not know in advance what else the photo may be
used for.
Of course for those who know all their photo's are crap in advance, Jpeg is
probably all they ever need :-)
However in most cases I have more time to play with the image afterwards
than I do when I'm shooting it, so I try to avoid anything that slows down
the shooting process, no matter how the image is to be used. YMMV.

Trevor.

On Sep 7, 5:27*pm, Me wrote:
On 4/09/2012 10:21 a.m., otter wrote: On Sep 3, 4:34 pm, Me wrote:
http://photorumors.com/wp-content/up...ng-24mm-tilt-s....
This has my attention, no price (but it will probably be pretty cheap)..
At a fraction of the price, one of these on a 24mp D600 (yes - I know -
it's "vapourware" as well) might easily make a Nikkor 24mm PC/E on a D3x
seem so... yesterday.
(both could also be abhorrent POS, but I doubt it)

Samyang can make some pretty decent optics:http://tinyurl.com/samyang24TS

Cool! *Hope it happens.

Now it's more than a rumour and leaked photo:http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/09...-5-tilt-shift-...

"Tilt-Shift function in Samyang T-S 24mm 1:3.5 ED AS UMC allows for
smooth and individual adjustment of the focus plane angle by +/-8.5 and
enables parallel shift of the optical axis by +/-12 millimeters. To make
Tilt-Shift function even more seamless, both the lens mount as well as
Tilt-Shift section may be rotated on the optical axis. The Tilt-Shift
section may be rotated left by 90 degrees (with 30 degree adjustment),
while mount of the lens may be rotated both in left and right direction
by 90 degrees, also with 30 degree adjustment.

Samyang T-S 24mm 1:3.5 ED AS UMC will be available with mounts for Canon
EF, Nikon F, Pentax K and Sony A. We welcome everyone to visit us at
Photokina at our booth A025 in the hall 2.1."

It is a 35mm format lens.

No price yet. If it's okay, and the price is affordable, I expect this
could be a great success - there are probably a lot of photographers
like me who'd always wanted a T/S lens, but the entry point price was
high for something which may get occasional use.

Yep, it all depends on price. I suspect Samyang knows that, as well.
I've been very impressed by their other lenses.