What the M is

Robert Coe wrote:
A number of people, some of whom should know better, have been dissing the new
Canon M for not having some or all of the features of a professional or
semi-professional DSLR. I think we should be careful not to let their
disappointment distract us from what has actually happened here. Which is that
Canon, before any of its competitors, has begun a line of mirrorless cameras
capable of evolving, with body enhancements only, into a putative replacement
for some of its serious cameras (in their case, the 7D and ultimately, with a
FF sensor, the 5D as well).

Even assuming that Canon could magically transfer all the good
points of a SLR design into a camera (including an electronic
viewfinder), it'll never replace the 5D series: EF-M --- the
mount --- can't do a FF sensor. It's a dedicated 1.6x crop mount.

Because today a processor fast enough to drive the necessary high-resolution
EVF would be too inefficient for the job; i.e., it would run too hot and go
through batteries too fast.

Really?

-Wolfgang

On 26/07/2012 1:58 a.m., Alan Browne wrote:
On 2012-07-24 21:43 , Trevor wrote:
"Robert Coe" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Jul 2012 12:43:32 +1200, Me wrote:
: This was my point, if you have to have it, then better that it uses
less
: power (like an EVF) than a large rear LCD!

When's the last time you saw a digital camera without a rear LCD,
regardless
of what other kind of viewfinder it did or didn't have?

No need to run a rear LCD permanently if you have an OVF/EVF though, you
only need turn it on *if* you want to review. I cant see any reason why a

Do any of the EVF's allow review using the EVF's? I can go long periods
with my eye in the VF while operating controls. Quick reviews there
would be handy.


Yes - usually.
Handy also if you wear corrective glasses, but use the diopter
adjustment on the VF to shoot with glasses off, but would need to put
them back on to see the rear LCD clearly.

I expect that the EF-m would be a dog for this though, as you need to
use the LCD touch screen to access common camera settings.

On 26/07/2012 10:51 a.m., Me wrote:
On 26/07/2012 1:58 a.m., Alan Browne wrote:
On 2012-07-24 21:43 , Trevor wrote:
"Robert Coe" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Jul 2012 12:43:32 +1200, Me wrote:
: This was my point, if you have to have it, then better that it uses
less
: power (like an EVF) than a large rear LCD!

When's the last time you saw a digital camera without a rear LCD,
regardless
of what other kind of viewfinder it did or didn't have?

No need to run a rear LCD permanently if you have an OVF/EVF though, you
only need turn it on *if* you want to review. I cant see any reason
why a

Do any of the EVF's allow review using the EVF's? I can go long periods
with my eye in the VF while operating controls. Quick reviews there
would be handy.


Yes - usually.
Handy also if you wear corrective glasses, but use the diopter
adjustment on the VF to shoot with glasses off, but would need to put
them back on to see the rear LCD clearly.

I expect that the EF-m would be a dog for this though, as you need to
use the LCD touch screen to access common camera settings.
Sorry - that's obviously incomplete. "if the EF-m had an EVF"
Same would apply for any MILC with EVF and touchscreen rear LCD - unless
commonly used controls still had buttons. Unfortunately that can lead
to something like the Oly OM5, which (IMO) is far to small for the
assortment of buttons and dials on the body, at least with hands my size
(average).

On 2012-07-25 18:51 , Me wrote:
On 26/07/2012 1:58 a.m., Alan Browne wrote:

Do any of the EVF's allow review using the EVF's? I can go long periods
with my eye in the VF while operating controls. Quick reviews there
would be handy.


Yes - usually.
Handy also if you wear corrective glasses, but use the diopter
adjustment on the VF to shoot with glasses off, but would need to put
them back on to see the rear LCD clearly.

I'm more myopic so that's no big deal. But the Presbyopia is beginning
to affect reading very fine print close up. So my OVF is dioptered to
my needs and I can still see the rear display very clearly - this will
come to an end in the next 5-10 years I expect. OTOH, I'm in that
irritating state where roaming needs my glasses on, and shooting needs
my glasses off. Contacts result in me not being able to read close up
at all.

I expect that the EF-m would be a dog for this though, as you need to
use the LCD touch screen to access common camera settings.

I hope never to have a camera needing touch screen. I can keep my eye
glued to the OVF and manage the main controls by touch and what is shown
in the OVF display (exposure/bias in particular).

--
"Civilization is the limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities."
-Samuel Clemens.

In rec.photo.digital Alan Browne wrote:
On 2012-07-24 21:43 , Trevor wrote:
"Robert Coe" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Jul 2012 12:43:32 +1200, Me wrote:
: This was my point, if you have to have it, then better that it uses less
: power (like an EVF) than a large rear LCD!

When's the last time you saw a digital camera without a rear LCD,
regardless
of what other kind of viewfinder it did or didn't have?

No need to run a rear LCD permanently if you have an OVF/EVF though, you
only need turn it on *if* you want to review. I cant see any reason why a

Do any of the EVF's allow review using the EVF's? I can go long periods
with my eye in the VF while operating controls. Quick reviews there
would be handy.

Over the years Sony's EVFs have offered increasing amounts of preview
and extra information in a variety of customisable modes and choice
selections. The A77 and NEX7 are probably the most sophisticated so
far.

--
Chris Malcolm

On 2012-07-26 05:16 , Chris Malcolm wrote:
In rec.photo.digital Alan Browne wrote:
On 2012-07-24 21:43 , Trevor wrote:
"Robert Coe" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Jul 2012 12:43:32 +1200, Me wrote:
: This was my point, if you have to have it, then better that it uses less
: power (like an EVF) than a large rear LCD!

When's the last time you saw a digital camera without a rear LCD,
regardless
of what other kind of viewfinder it did or didn't have?

No need to run a rear LCD permanently if you have an OVF/EVF though, you
only need turn it on *if* you want to review. I cant see any reason why a

Do any of the EVF's allow review using the EVF's? I can go long periods
with my eye in the VF while operating controls. Quick reviews there
would be handy.

Over the years Sony's EVFs have offered increasing amounts of preview
and extra information in a variety of customisable modes and choice
selections. The A77 and NEX7 are probably the most sophisticated so
far.

Good. I meant however: "can I 'review' taken photos in the EVF?" The
point being not only keeping my eye in the EVF but it also seems a good
way to shade from the sun while reviewing.

--
"Civilization is the limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities."
-Samuel Clemens.

M for "Me too".
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

On Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:56:44 +0200, Wolfgang Weisselberg
wrote:
: Robert Coe wrote:
: A number of people, some of whom should know better, have been dissing the new
: Canon M for not having some or all of the features of a professional or
: semi-professional DSLR. I think we should be careful not to let their
: disappointment distract us from what has actually happened here. Which is that
: Canon, before any of its competitors, has begun a line of mirrorless cameras
: capable of evolving, with body enhancements only, into a putative replacement
: for some of its serious cameras (in their case, the 7D and ultimately, with a
: FF sensor, the 5D as well).
:
: Even assuming that Canon could magically transfer all the good
: points of a SLR design into a camera (including an electronic
: viewfinder), it'll never replace the 5D series: EF-M --- the
: mount --- can't do a FF sensor. It's a dedicated 1.6x crop mount.
:
: Because today a processor fast enough to drive the necessary high-resolution
: EVF would be too inefficient for the job; i.e., it would run too hot and go
: through batteries too fast.
:
: Really?

Really. The Canon Web site predicts that the M will average 230 pictures on a
battery charge. With no built-in flash to help slurp up watts. Sad.



Bob

On Thu, 26 Jul 2012 21:52:01 -0400, Robert Coe wrote:

On Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:56:44 +0200, Wolfgang Weisselberg
wrote:
: Robert Coe wrote:
: A number of people, some of whom should know better, have been dissing the new
: Canon M for not having some or all of the features of a professional or
: semi-professional DSLR. I think we should be careful not to let their
: disappointment distract us from what has actually happened here. Which is that
: Canon, before any of its competitors, has begun a line of mirrorless cameras
: capable of evolving, with body enhancements only, into a putative replacement
: for some of its serious cameras (in their case, the 7D and ultimately, with a
: FF sensor, the 5D as well).
:
: Even assuming that Canon could magically transfer all the good
: points of a SLR design into a camera (including an electronic
: viewfinder), it'll never replace the 5D series: EF-M --- the
: mount --- can't do a FF sensor. It's a dedicated 1.6x crop mount.
:
: Because today a processor fast enough to drive the necessary high-resolution
: EVF would be too inefficient for the job; i.e., it would run too hot and go
: through batteries too fast.
:
: Really?

Really. The Canon Web site predicts that the M will average 230 pictures on a
battery charge. With no built-in flash to help slurp up watts. Sad.

That's not a problem for me. 230 pics is a lot of pics. If you need
more, get an extra battery.

W

In article ,
says...
That's not a problem for me. 230 pics is a lot of pics. If you need
more, get an extra battery.

Seems to be a problem for Wolfgang, who needs at least 900 shots on a
battery charge.
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site