OT Subtle spam argeement

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

What has been asked is if a program that *contains* Conduit's
SafeSearch is available, and a Mac user attempts to download and
install it, would the Mac a) refuse to download or install the
program, or, b) would the Mac accept the download and installation but
strip out the Conduit part?

already answered but since you're so dense, let's try one more time.

a) the mac will not refuse a download of anything. why would it?

b) nothing is stripped out of anything that is downloaded or installed.

conduit modifies system folders, so the user will need to authenticate
to get it to install which means it can't be installed without the user
knowing.

unfortunately, some people are stupid enough to blindly type in their
admin password any time they're asked without questioning why it's
needed.

once again, the weak link is the user. this is not a mac or windows
exploit. it's a stupid user exploit.

and as i said before, quality software does not play these games. any
software that includes such stuff is garbage no matter what purpose the
software supposedly has.

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

Evidently, DivX http://www.divx.com/ is an app for Windows *and* Macs
that contains the Conduit malware.

not anymore it isn't, and divx is mainly used for pirated videos anyway
so it's a bit of karma that divx users got pwned.

That seems to be what this is all about:
https://forums.divx.com/divx/topics/..._firefox_macos

keep reading. it's no longer included.
https://forums.divx.com/divx/topics/update_to_divx_installer-16wu99

On 2014-05-12 02:33:58 +0000, Tony Cooper said:


Do you not read what you're responding to? It's never been suggested
that Conduit would be downloaded or installed.

Then why did you bring it up in the first place other than make some
veiled aspersion at OSX?

What has been asked is if a program that *contains* Conduit's
SafeSearch is available, and a Mac user attempts to download and
install it, would the Mac a) refuse to download or install the
program, or, b) would the Mac accept the download and installation but
strip out the Conduit part?

There is no legitimate way to find, download, and install this
particular malware. Once, this idiot Mac user had shot himself in the
head by clicking on the download/install link, and he has by-passed the
very insistent warning from his very protective OSX, telling him that
this app is not from a trusted source, all he will be researching is
how to get rid of it.

The Mac user in question would have to actively install it via a trojan
of sorts as it is not available via legitimate sources for the Mac.

You are so intent on arguing that you don't even read what you respond
to. You have not provided an answer to the question. All you've done
is taken a ride around on your hobby horse.

I don't think you even understand what Conduit's SafeSearch is or
does. You just jumped in to argue. You're a fraud.

In this case I care not what Conduit's SafeSearch is or does. What I
know is, I cannot find a web site for Conduit, I find plenty of
information on how to fix the problems it causes, and I cannot find an
Apple approved installer for any of their products. So I have no reason
to trust anything that smells of Conduit.

As far as nospam goes, what you see is what you get. He certainly is no trojan.

There is indication that Macs *do* install Conduit that has been
embedded in other apps:
http://www.wikihow.com/Get-Rid-of-Conduit

However, none of those malware infected apps has been vetted by Apple,
so the user has screwed up by trusting adware, or taken the bait from a
poisoned email.

Apple knows this even though you don't.
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3672587
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5596008

That is a discussion forum much like this group where individuals who
have screwed up are receiving advice of a sort from other Mac users.
Apple has zilch to do with it other than facilitating the discussion.

http://www.2-spyware.com/remove-cond...ect-virus.html

http://www.thesafemac.com/arg-conduit/

....and in each case of installation. the Mac user has screwed up by not
going through the standard OSX routines for downloading and installing
apps and/or browser extensions. He has also clicked through every
warning OSX has given him not to continue with the installation. There
is a reason why Apple vets software, and the Mac user can trust the
vast bulk of software, plugins, and extensions which don't provoke an
OSX warning.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

In article 2014051120275248048-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:

As far as nospam goes, what you see is what you get. He certainly is no
trojan.

definitely not, although i have visited usc.

On 2014-05-12 02:53:56 +0000, Tony Cooper said:

On Sun, 11 May 2014 18:16:06 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2014-05-12 00:47:42 +0000, Tony Cooper said:

On Sun, 11 May 2014 19:52:36 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

It's not an option that is accepted or declined; it's an inclusion by
the developer that must be agreed to if the program is to be
installed. The program itself may be a useful program. The Conduit
Safe Search can be eradicated with a program like Malwarebytes after
the installation, but it's part of the program.

Do Macs strip this out on installation?

They don't give you the option to install questionable software, but
Windows and Android does. If an extension, plugin, or app does not pass
muster with Apple, it never reaches the consumer. That does not mean
that Mac users are not vulnerable to real trojans, but they would have
to actively install that malware after logging in as an administrator.

I'm not sure that answers my question. The software program is
acceptable.

no it isn't. nothing about embedding crap like that is acceptable.

It's that secondary inclusion that is considered to be
malware because it changes the search engine from whatever was
previously used to the Conduit search engine. But, it's a legitimate
search engine.

legitimate search engines do not hijack browsers. end of story.

there is absolutely nothing legitimate about what they're doing.

It's not a good thing if Macs refuses to download the program because
the program could be wanted. It would be a good thing if Macs
downloaded the program but nullified or stripped out the Conduit part.

it's a very good thing, because anything that secretly embeds that crap
is garbage.

if the app is any good, then offer it without embedded malware.

and if the app is codesigned, it can't be stripped out without breaking
the codesigning.

Why don't you just answer the question? What would happen if a Mac
owner tries to download the program?

If they are able to download it should be the question.
I have searched for a way to find this particular Conduit product and I
donÂ’t seem to be able to find any Mac conduit which would let me
stupidly download and install it.

See my post to nosense. I provided several links about the need to
remove Conduit's SafeSearch from a Mac.

I saw those and found some in my own search.

The question is *not* about downloading Conduit. It's a question
about getting Conduit as part of some other app.

Well it is about downloading Conduit, and downloading any apps it might
be hiding in. It would be good to be aware of those apps. It would also
be interesting to see what sort of web presense Conduit has.

You say this is an integral part of a DVD burning app. so what is this
DVD burning app? Perhaps they have a Mac version or port.

DeepBurner (free)is one, but that's a Windows-only program. When I
saw that it requires acceptance of Conduit, I cancelled the install
before doing it.

I guess there is a reason why it is a Windows only program.
I use Roxio's Toast, have done so for years.
http://www.roxio.com/enu/products/to.../overview.html

What it made me wonder is how would a Mac treat this. Instead of
getting a straight answer, or an honest "I don't know", I get a dance
around the subject by nosense.

…but you expected that.

Evidently, DivX http://www.divx.com/ is an app for Windows *and* Macs
that contains the Conduit malware.

That is surprising and sneaky.

That seems to be what this is all about:
https://forums.divx.com/divx/topics/..._firefox_macos

I

took a look at the DivX license and found this interesting read:

"OFFERS: During the installation process you may be offered software
components or applications on behalf of third parties (i.e.,
Third-Party software). Such offers are optional and do not affect your
use of the Software or your eligibility for trials and product
registration. Installation and use of Third-Party Software is subject
to the terms of use, end user license agreement and/or privacy policy
set by such third party for their products. In addition, you agree not
to: (a) tamper or modify the installation screen displays or display
flows for such products; and (b) distribute the Software or Third-Party
Software with any adware, third party peer-to-peer software, spyware,
malware or other malicious programs or code."

So the responsibility is on the user. The lesson here is don't
reflexively click through stuff just to get some free-bee installed.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

In article 2014051120495265235-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:

So the responsibility is on the user. The lesson here is don't
reflexively click through stuff just to get some free-bee installed.

exactly.

On Sun, 11 May 2014 06:47:46 -0700, Savageduck wrote:

On 2014-05-11 13:37:54 +0000, Alan Browne
said:

On 2014.05.11, 09:06 , Savageduck wrote:
On 2014-05-11 12:52:24 +0000, Alan Browne
said:

Yes, I covered the human factor elsewhere. Safari advertising on iOS
is
not malware - it's just irritant. As to Twitter, there is a simple
solution for that.

Twitter problem? No Twitter, no problem.

You too?

;-)

No Facebook either. ;-)

They tell me that is supposed to mean I don't have any friends. Oh!
Well!

Must be me also. I have neither.



--
Neil
Reverse ‘i’ and ‘e’
Remove ‘l’ to get address.

On 2014.05.10, 16:55 , Eric Stevens wrote:

I want to keep my existing displays. I do not like the glossy Mac
screen.

The prior iMac I had (2007 model) had a glossy screen. In some
instances I would catch reflections off of it, but not much.

The new iMac (2012) has just as glossy looking a screen - but the
reflection level is far less than the previous version. This is due to
several things, most especially the very shallow glass to display
thickness (a few mm).

Only at very oblique angles do I see reflections from my home office.





Same i7
Same 1600 MHz 8 GB RAM

you're ignoring many other specs, such as the pc is not an all in one
design and does not have thunderbolt.

Don't want an all in one design and I presently have no use for
Thunderbolt.

He's over spec'ing to propagate his favourite myth: that Macs are no
more expensive than other PCs'. That is only true in a very narrow
band, esp. high end laptops.


the imac is also due for an update, which would likely include
thunderbolt 2, making the differences even greater.

what about 802.11ac and bluetooth 4? the pc is probably lacking at
least one of those and probably both.

Nope. Got them.

you didn't mention the graphics card.

the imac also includes stereo speakers, stereo microphones, target
display mode, optical audio in/out, 4 usb3 ports (not separate ones as
with many computers) and an sdxc card slot (although in a stupid
place). the pc will have some of that but chances are, not all of it.

usually pcs come with home premium, whereas os x is equivalent to
windows ultimate, which is yet another difference.

Home premium is less than I want.

With OS X there is only one OS flavour - no limitations imposed by it
(or no version with trash added). And it is now 'free' for all major OS
upgrades. The server version (or add on, really) is $20.

With MS this would be a fortune. And each major upgrade another fortune.

ilife/iwork are included on the mac, while pcs usually include
demoware, which is yet another difference. with ilife/iwork, he might
not need to buy microsoft office. macs also support exchange without
anything extra, although chances are he doesn't need that (but it's
still a difference).

also, after-purchase support for the mac is generally much better than
for pcs. if there's any problem, just bring it to any apple store and
they will fix the issue, sometimes even if it's out of warranty. i know
your particular apple store sucks, but that's definitely not the norm.
or maybe you're as obnoxious to them as you are on usenet and they
treat you accordingly.

At that difference it's $800 more for the iMac.

because it has different specs. very simple.

It's still $800. In fact I need a Mac Pro.

If you do a lot of video work, yes, perhaps. If you do photo editing,
no matter how much, then you probably do not. You'd end up with a very
expensive set of idling cores and graphic PU's.

The Mac Pro's real power value is not in its CPU but in its twin
graphics processors, both very high end. It is truly oriented to video
studios and movie makers.

If you really want a Mac - really. Really? Then I'd suggest an iMac
for its value - that includes the built in monitor which is not as
glossy looking (reflective) as they were a few years ago. I also have a
cheap side monitor for things like e-mail, calendar, messages, and the
like).

The highest end Mac Mini is not as powerful as the highest end iMac
(like I have) and the graphics is a lower spec as well (nothing to
sneeze at, mind you). But the Mac Mini is due for a refresh this year
and could end up being quite powerful. The Mac Mini would be a nice way
to start your journey to the light side.

Whatever you do, when you buy a Mac, get the least amount of offered
memory and then buy additional memory from Crucial or OWC.

Caveats: don't do this for laptops without checking upgradeability;
don't do this if you get the 21.5" iMac - the memory slots are not
directly accessible - major teardown to get at them.

--
"Big data can reduce anything to a single number,
but you shouldn’t be fooled by the appearance of exactitude."
-Gary Marcus and Ernest Davis, NYT, 2014.04.07

On 2014.05.10, 22:08 , Eric Stevens wrote:

I've also got some 2000 vinyl LPs I want to transcibe to digital form.
I would like to do this in the background while I am doing other
things.

Audio copying from vinyl takes very little CPU. You'll need to get an
external sampler (about $30 - $100). Various freeware/payware to do the
sampling.

But frankly, having done a lot of vinyl-digital copying from my
collection, it's turned out to be much easier to simply go to iTunes and
select whole albums or single tracks (depending on the album of
interest) and paying for and downloading those. This also, esp. for
classical music, makes "breaking into tracks" much easier. Automatic
track splitting s/w doesn't do that great a job if there are quiet lulls
in the music or transitions to tracks w/o the music actually fading.

Further, pops, hiss, etc. are far less with the DL's.


if you really do need something like a mac pro, then you are going to
be spending a lot more money if you buy an equivalent pc.

I'm used to spending money on computers. I always buy the fastest PC I
can get at the time. They always turn out to be relatively slow before
I have finished with them.

Of course. But I'd not waste my money on a Mac Pro unless you were
doing heavy video work. And I really mean commercial/studio quality
2K/4K type work - complex work. That's what it is aimed at with its
dual graphics processors. For lighter (personal) video work an iMac or
i7 based Mac Mini can handle it in spades.

For photography, audio, video watching (and running a couple VM's at the
same time) an i7/4 core (Hyper threaded) class machine is more than enough.

--
"Big data can reduce anything to a single number,
but you shouldn’t be fooled by the appearance of exactitude."
-Gary Marcus and Ernest Davis, NYT, 2014.04.07

On 2014.05.11, 05:59 , Eric Stevens wrote:

My thinking is influenced in part by the amount of time my present
computer spends being bogged down with software updates and some very
large backups etc which run in the background. I don't know how the
overhead in OSX compares with Windows but I would certainly like a
machine which doesn't run cold every time someone turns on a tap in
the kitchen. Early days yet: I'm not going to do anything in a hurry.

Macs don't tend to bog down while doing backups (I do incrementals every
4 hours and never notice that they are going on) or updates. I can run
OS X, Windows and Linux simultaneously and doing various things on each
and there is no perceptible lag anywhere unless they are sharing a disk
a lot at the same time.

If a given app is bogged down, it will beachball when the cursor is over
it - but other apps will continue without issue. It is very rare to
have a completely hung system (once per year - maybe).

A testament to stability, I usually go weeks to months without
restarting the computer. (Usually forced to restart due to some OS or
software updates).

The Mac Pro would be a mistake because all the value is in the GPU's -
and those won't help you with your particular tasks.

--
"Big data can reduce anything to a single number,
but you shouldn’t be fooled by the appearance of exactitude."
-Gary Marcus and Ernest Davis, NYT, 2014.04.07