Is Quality Control going out the window?

"Alan Browne" wrote in message
.. .
Gordon Moat wrote:

I think ideally for the manufacturers, they would make products that
expire
just past the warranty period. With the ever changing pace of direct
digital
cameras, they should want people to get the next thing often, and
continue
the "upgrade" path . . . much like marketing of computers a few years
ago.

I don't think they need to fail for people to upgrade. People seek the
best
(apparent) performance and upggrae on their own. Never changes, change.


I have heard a great deal about Sony P&S digital cameras expiring very
close
to the warranty period, so perhaps they are doing this correctly to prod
a
forced upgrade path. Phone makers already do this.

You only hear about the ones that fail. You don't hear about the ones
that keep
on ticking and ticking and... I've had my current Nokia cell phone for 3
years,
it has fallen off of my car (in motion) and scattered its parts all over
the
road ... still works after reassembly. My prior Nokia went to my ex-wife
(got
to love the PIN card) and she is still using it.


Same thing here. I only upgraded this year after I realised I hadn't for
three years... the phone company gave me £50 off the in-store upgrade price
when I turned up in the shop! Maybe they missed me...
To be honest, the old phone had actually been replaced twice to rectify
various faults... the phone I'd ended up with had hardware and software
updates which sorted out the early problems and I never needed to upgrade,
so the idea that it gives up after the warranty period doesn't seem to hold
water.
Furthermore, my brother's DVD recorder stopped working recently. I still
cannot quite believe this, but the manufacturers repaired it for free
OUTSIDE of it's warranty. They'd had so many fail with the same fault, they
felt they should honour their customers with free repairs... What's going on
with the world!??!

Still, there are certain products which seem to be fail much more these days
than they used to.. and these aren't the fancy high-tech computerised
gadgets like digital cameras and mobile phones, it's more the simple,
mechanical things that have been around for donkeys years - like washing
machines.

Chris.

In article pan.2004.09.30.16.00.28.282000@realphoto,
Dallas wrote:
Not wanting to start anything up, but I am hearing more than just a few
reports of discontent from early 20D owners. Are there QC issues with the
camera?

It sounds like the reported problems are software related. Sad to say (and I
say this as a software engineer myself), the software industry is relatively
immature compared to many other engineering disciplines, and has "issues"
regarding its ability to turn out consistently reliable products. To a large
extent, software that drives personal computers and related consumer
electronics (such as digital cameras - you know the digital EOSes run an
MS-DOS clone?) does tend to rely somewhat on the early end-users discovering
problems.

As it happens, Canon have just announced new firmware for this camera.
Hopefully this should fix these teething troubles.

In article pan.2004.09.30.16.00.28.282000@realphoto,
Dallas wrote:
Not wanting to start anything up, but I am hearing more than just a few
reports of discontent from early 20D owners. Are there QC issues with the
camera?

It sounds like the reported problems are software related. Sad to say (and I
say this as a software engineer myself), the software industry is relatively
immature compared to many other engineering disciplines, and has "issues"
regarding its ability to turn out consistently reliable products. To a large
extent, software that drives personal computers and related consumer
electronics (such as digital cameras - you know the digital EOSes run an
MS-DOS clone?) does tend to rely somewhat on the early end-users discovering
problems.

As it happens, Canon have just announced new firmware for this camera.
Hopefully this should fix these teething troubles.

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:52:18 +0000, John McWilliams had this to say:

Dallas wrote:
Not wanting to start anything up, ......

But that's a flat out lie..... unless your previous posting history over
the last couple of months is wholly irrelevant.

john mcwilliams

Hey, does anybody know who this John McWilliams guy is?

--
DD™
"And that's all I got to say about that" ~ FG

"Dallas" wrote in message
newsan.2004.09.30.16.00.28.282000@realphoto...
Not wanting to start anything up

Great!
Does this mean you're gonna silence your pie hole?
-I just want you to know that I support your efforts 100%!

"Dallas" wrote in message
newsan.2004.09.30.16.00.28.282000@realphoto...
Not wanting to start anything up

Great!
Does this mean you're gonna silence your pie hole?
-I just want you to know that I support your efforts 100%!

"Chris B" wrote in message
o.uk...

"Alan Browne" wrote in message
.. .
Gordon Moat wrote:

I think ideally for the manufacturers, they would make products that
expire
just past the warranty period. With the ever changing pace of direct
digital
cameras, they should want people to get the next thing often, and
continue
the "upgrade" path . . . much like marketing of computers a few years
ago.

I don't think they need to fail for people to upgrade. People seek the
best
(apparent) performance and upggrae on their own. Never changes, change.


I have heard a great deal about Sony P&S digital cameras expiring very
close
to the warranty period, so perhaps they are doing this correctly to
prod
a
forced upgrade path. Phone makers already do this.

You only hear about the ones that fail. You don't hear about the ones
that keep
on ticking and ticking and... I've had my current Nokia cell phone for 3
years,
it has fallen off of my car (in motion) and scattered its parts all over
the
road ... still works after reassembly. My prior Nokia went to my
ex-wife
(got
to love the PIN card) and she is still using it.


Same thing here. I only upgraded this year after I realised I hadn't for
three years... the phone company gave me £50 off the in-store upgrade
price
when I turned up in the shop! Maybe they missed me...
To be honest, the old phone had actually been replaced twice to rectify
various faults... the phone I'd ended up with had hardware and software
updates which sorted out the early problems and I never needed to upgrade,
so the idea that it gives up after the warranty period doesn't seem to
hold
water.
Furthermore, my brother's DVD recorder stopped working recently. I still
cannot quite believe this, but the manufacturers repaired it for free
OUTSIDE of it's warranty. They'd had so many fail with the same fault,
they
felt they should honour their customers with free repairs... What's going
on
with the world!??!

Same here.
I just had about 10 items shipped together from a web-site via Fed-ex.
One item was defective, and they forgot to include another item.
I am sure it was an honest mistake for reasons I won't go into.
Point is...
....They are sending me a replacement, and of course the missing item...but
*****they didn't even ask me to return the slightly broken item, or show
proof of ANY kind!!****
They just took it on faith from me that I was telling them the truth (which
I was...).
This was my first time ordering from them, but I can assure you they'll
remain on my "buy-from" list. When I asked him about returning the item, he
said, "Just throw out the broken part and keep the rest in case you can use
it for something at some point."

What IS this world coming to??

Alan Browne wrote:

Gordon Moat wrote:

I think ideally for the manufacturers, they would make products that expire
just past the warranty period. With the ever changing pace of direct digital
cameras, they should want people to get the next thing often, and continue
the "upgrade" path . . . much like marketing of computers a few years ago.

I don't think they need to fail for people to upgrade. People seek the best
(apparent) performance and upggrae on their own. Never changes, change.

I have heard a great deal about Sony P&S digital cameras expiring very close
to the warranty period, so perhaps they are doing this correctly to prod a
forced upgrade path. Phone makers already do this.

You only hear about the ones that fail. You don't hear about the ones that keep
on ticking and ticking and... I've had my current Nokia cell phone for 3 years,
it has fallen off of my car (in motion) and scattered its parts all over the
road ... still works after reassembly. My prior Nokia went to my ex-wife (got
to love the PIN card) and she is still using it.

The funny thing is that we have a Sony and a Nokia division in San Diego county.
ONe of the Sony places is responsible for all the smaller consumer electronics, and
their laptops. The Nokia division here largely just does phones. My friend who left
Nokia recently talked of many phones being returned, and a lack of ruggedness. To
be fair, it is not across the board, and the better units are much sturdier, though
you pay for that.

With the smaller Sony electronics, they are usually well made, but many have
partial failures near the end of the warranty. It could just be the climate, and
overuse in this area, but there certainly seem to be many returns. Undoubtedly,
most are probably fine, and never have problems . . . though hearing of so many
makes one wonder about quality control.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com

Dallas wrote in
newsan.2004.09.30.21.18.14.463000@realphoto:

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:52:18 +0000, John McWilliams had this to say:

Dallas wrote:
Not wanting to start anything up, ......

But that's a flat out lie..... unless your previous posting history over
the last couple of months is wholly irrelevant.

john mcwilliams

Hey, does anybody know who this John McWilliams guy is?


Observant?


- Al.

--
To reply, insert dash in address to match domain below
Online photo gallery at www.wading-in.net

Gordon Moat wrote:

Dallas wrote:
[snip]
I have heard a great deal about Sony P&S digital cameras expiring very
ccourtesyy the warranty period, so perhaps they are doing this correctly
to
prod a forced upgrade path. Phone makers already do this.
[snip]

Little bit of a story follows.

At the camera shop I work at, we carry very few Sony products, but we do
offer to ship cameras to them for repair as a courtesy to our customers.
Long story short, the problem isn't with build quality of Sony products,
but it's with the absolutely awful customer support they give. Little
things like a non-refundable, non-deductible $50 estimate fee for repairs,
when almost all other manufacturers only charge $10 or $15, or even none at
all on good days with Nikon or Canon. Things like 3 month wait times, and
missing parts when they finally do ship repairs back. Things like never
returning calls.

It got so bad that we now only ship repairs to Sony if the product is on
warranty, and was bought at our store. If it's out of warranty or was
bought elsewhere, we just give the customer Sony's address and tell them
how to properly package cameras for shipping. I'll never buy Sony again,
and I'll never recommend them again but it's _not_ due to build quality
issues. Just my two cents.

- Matt White