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#21
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Bryan Olson wrote:
Stacey wrote: Bryan Olson wrote: Stacey wrote: Maybe this will shut up some of the morons posting the "Dslr's are taking over medformat" garbage that get's posted almost daily now in the film newsgroups. This new Mamiya *is* a digital SLR, so I expect it will re-enforce the position. Like DUH, I meant the APS size digtial rebel ones people keep bragging about. Well now, the base of the issue is what the people you call "morons" meant. Are they really claiming, "almost daily now" that "the APS size digital rebel" cameras "are taking over medium format"? I had not seen that. Nor have I. But the quotient of morons making blanket statements remains high. -- John McWilliams |
#22
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Bryan Olson wrote:
Stacey wrote: Bryan Olson wrote: Stacey wrote: Maybe this will shut up some of the morons posting the "Dslr's are taking over medformat" garbage that get's posted almost daily now in the film newsgroups. This new Mamiya *is* a digital SLR, so I expect it will re-enforce the position. Like DUH, I meant the APS size digtial rebel ones people keep bragging about. Well now, the base of the issue is what the people you call "morons" meant. Are they really claiming, "almost daily now" that "the APS size digital rebel" cameras "are taking over medium format"? I had not seen that. Nor have I. But the quotient of morons making blanket statements remains high. -- John McWilliams |
#23
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~Darrell Larose~ wrote:
"Alan Browne" wrote in message ... deryck lant wrote: The new 22 Meg Mamiya ZD 645 format DSLR with 36x48mm imager is rumoured to sell at around 10K US Dollars: http://www.letsgodigital.org/html/ev...iya/ZD_en.html If so it will dampen down the price of the new 1DsMkII Canon and maybe influence Nikon as well. Not sure about the effect on prices for "35mm" format DSLR's, if any. Sensor prices rely on the economy of scale, if the Mamiya sensor sells in volume, whether in a Mamiya, Bronica, Hasselblad, the end result is the prices will come down. If this sensor was split in half we would then have to 24x36mm sensors. This is a simplistic view, but silicon sort of works like that... The notion is that if a high end camera such as the 645 is at a certain price point, then it will have downward pressure on the price point in a different class of camera. Since they are different classes of camera and different lens systems, etc., there will be 0 effect. Further the pix density of the MF camera is less than that of the 'best' 35mm digital ... so really no comparison at all at the chip level. Cheers, Alan -- -- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource: -- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.-- |
#24
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~Darrell Larose~ wrote:
"Alan Browne" wrote in message ... deryck lant wrote: The new 22 Meg Mamiya ZD 645 format DSLR with 36x48mm imager is rumoured to sell at around 10K US Dollars: http://www.letsgodigital.org/html/ev...iya/ZD_en.html If so it will dampen down the price of the new 1DsMkII Canon and maybe influence Nikon as well. Not sure about the effect on prices for "35mm" format DSLR's, if any. Sensor prices rely on the economy of scale, if the Mamiya sensor sells in volume, whether in a Mamiya, Bronica, Hasselblad, the end result is the prices will come down. If this sensor was split in half we would then have to 24x36mm sensors. This is a simplistic view, but silicon sort of works like that... The notion is that if a high end camera such as the 645 is at a certain price point, then it will have downward pressure on the price point in a different class of camera. Since they are different classes of camera and different lens systems, etc., there will be 0 effect. Further the pix density of the MF camera is less than that of the 'best' 35mm digital ... so really no comparison at all at the chip level. Cheers, Alan -- -- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource: -- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.-- |
#25
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Stacey wrote:
Alan Browne wrote: http://www.letsgodigital.org/html/ev...iya/ZD_en.html If so it will dampen down the price of the new 1DsMkII Canon and maybe influence Nikon as well. I wish you would be careful with your snipping. I did NOT write the above, and my opinion is actually the contrary. As well as making the images taken with those DSLR's look as pathetic as 35mm images do compared to MF film cameras. Maybe this will shut up some of the morons posting the "Dslr's are taking over medformat" garbage that get's posted almost daily now in the film newsgroups. Somehow I doubt it will. Afraid not. While the MF's with 22 MP backs enjoy both more detail and better SNR, the gap is narrower with each passing season. A lot of work that is currently done on MF can be done just as well on the better 35mm frame digtital cameras. Not all, but a lot. See the "encroachment" / 1Ds MkII threads. Cheers, Alan -- -- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource: -- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.-- |
#26
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Stacey wrote:
Like DUH, I meant the APS size digtial rebel ones people keep bragging about. Time you though more about the 1Ds Mk II (full frame, 18 Mpix). -- -- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource: -- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.-- |
#27
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Stacey wrote:
Like DUH, I meant the APS size digtial rebel ones people keep bragging about. Time you though more about the 1Ds Mk II (full frame, 18 Mpix). -- -- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource: -- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.-- |
#28
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In rec.photo.digital Alan Browne wrote:
~Darrell Larose~ wrote: "Alan Browne" wrote in message ... deryck lant wrote: The new 22 Meg Mamiya ZD 645 format DSLR with 36x48mm imager is rumoured to sell at around 10K US Dollars: http://www.letsgodigital.org/html/ev...iya/ZD_en.html If so it will dampen down the price of the new 1DsMkII Canon and maybe influence Nikon as well. Not sure about the effect on prices for "35mm" format DSLR's, if any. Sensor prices rely on the economy of scale, if the Mamiya sensor sells in volume, whether in a Mamiya, Bronica, Hasselblad, the end result is the prices will come down. If this sensor was split in half we would then have to 24x36mm sensors. This is a simplistic view, but silicon sort of works like that... The notion is that if a high end camera such as the 645 is at a certain price point, then it will have downward pressure on the price point in a different class of camera. Since they are different classes of camera and different lens systems, etc., there will be 0 effect. Further the pix density of the MF camera is less than that of the 'best' 35mm digital ... so really no comparison at all at the chip level. Cheers, Alan I'm not so sure about the effect of pix density. Doesn't it depend on what you want to do with the image. Let us say that one wants to print an 8x10. Then a 4x5 image only has to be enlarged by a linear factor of two. The resulting pix density (assuming one could print it) would be the original divided by 4. On the other hand the long dimension of a 35mm shot is about 1.25 inches. If that is to be enlarged to 10 inches that's a linear expansion of 8 times. The resulting final pix density will be the original divided by 64. Clearly the 4x5 image will end up giving the 8x10 the greater pix density -- even with a somewhat less pixel density in the sensor. For other uses the calculation might well be quite different. I do not know the actual sensor dimensions a 4x5 camera might have. So my "calculations" above are only suggestive. But the point remains, it is the final use to which the image will be put that counts. ---- Paul J. Gans |
#29
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In rec.photo.digital Alan Browne wrote:
~Darrell Larose~ wrote: "Alan Browne" wrote in message ... deryck lant wrote: The new 22 Meg Mamiya ZD 645 format DSLR with 36x48mm imager is rumoured to sell at around 10K US Dollars: http://www.letsgodigital.org/html/ev...iya/ZD_en.html If so it will dampen down the price of the new 1DsMkII Canon and maybe influence Nikon as well. Not sure about the effect on prices for "35mm" format DSLR's, if any. Sensor prices rely on the economy of scale, if the Mamiya sensor sells in volume, whether in a Mamiya, Bronica, Hasselblad, the end result is the prices will come down. If this sensor was split in half we would then have to 24x36mm sensors. This is a simplistic view, but silicon sort of works like that... The notion is that if a high end camera such as the 645 is at a certain price point, then it will have downward pressure on the price point in a different class of camera. Since they are different classes of camera and different lens systems, etc., there will be 0 effect. Further the pix density of the MF camera is less than that of the 'best' 35mm digital ... so really no comparison at all at the chip level. Cheers, Alan I'm not so sure about the effect of pix density. Doesn't it depend on what you want to do with the image. Let us say that one wants to print an 8x10. Then a 4x5 image only has to be enlarged by a linear factor of two. The resulting pix density (assuming one could print it) would be the original divided by 4. On the other hand the long dimension of a 35mm shot is about 1.25 inches. If that is to be enlarged to 10 inches that's a linear expansion of 8 times. The resulting final pix density will be the original divided by 64. Clearly the 4x5 image will end up giving the 8x10 the greater pix density -- even with a somewhat less pixel density in the sensor. For other uses the calculation might well be quite different. I do not know the actual sensor dimensions a 4x5 camera might have. So my "calculations" above are only suggestive. But the point remains, it is the final use to which the image will be put that counts. ---- Paul J. Gans |
#30
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In rec.photo.equipment.35mm ~Darrell Larose~ wrote:
Sensor prices rely on the economy of scale, if the Mamiya sensor sells in volume, whether in a Mamiya, Bronica, Hasselblad, the end result is the prices will come down. If this sensor was split in half we would then have to 24x36mm sensors. This is a simplistic view, but silicon sort of works like that... By and far, sensor price depends on sensor size and not demand. At least until you get the volume well into 100s of thousands. -- Sander +++ Out of cheese error +++ |
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