Anyone know how to adjust a synchro compur?

Thanks for looking.

Before you tell me to send it off for a CLA. (The sensible option in 99.99%
of cases) a little background.

The shutter/lens was purchased from e-bay for not a lot of money, the glass
isn't perfect so I'm reluctant to spend money on a CLA or new shutter. When
recieved the shutter had a few faults, failure to fire on occasion, sticking
B, and slow speeds especially at the slow end. To date I've fixed the first
2 by carefully stripping, cleaning and rebuilding the shutter and using a
tiny amount of watch oil on the mechanism for B.

As of yet I haven't figured out how to adjust the speeds, has anyone here
ever done this? if so a few pointers would be much appreciated.

TIA

Martin

Mine was too screwed up so I DID send it out (needed repair too).

If you haven't yet, do some research on Compur & dry or oil. If it's
not a lubed shutter, you may only be temporarily fixing it.

Sorry I can't help with instructions.

I hear CLA is only $55 at Flutot's in Calif, if you do need one.

Good luck.

Martin Doyle spake thus:

Before you tell me to send it off for a CLA. (The sensible option in 99.99%
of cases) a little background.

The shutter/lens was purchased from e-bay for not a lot of money, the glass
isn't perfect so I'm reluctant to spend money on a CLA or new shutter. When
recieved the shutter had a few faults, failure to fire on occasion, sticking
B, and slow speeds especially at the slow end. To date I've fixed the first
2 by carefully stripping, cleaning and rebuilding the shutter and using a
tiny amount of watch oil on the mechanism for B.

As of yet I haven't figured out how to adjust the speeds, has anyone here
ever done this? if so a few pointers would be much appreciated.

The short answer is, no, you can't. Contrary to what some folks
believe, apparently, there are no separate adjustments for speeds, at
least none that mere mortals (that is, anyone except those at the Deckel
plant who made the things in the first place) should contemplate trying.
If the mechanism is clean and properly lubricated, the speeds should be
correct.

Richard Knoppow can give a more detailed response on this.

By the way, nothing you said leads to the conclusion that the speeds are
off. Do you know for sure whether they are or not? If the slow speeds
are OK, the fast ones probably are too.


--
Just as McDonald's is where you go when you're hungry but don't really
care about the quality of your food, Wikipedia is where you go when
you're curious but don't really care about the quality of your knowledge.

- Matthew White's WikiWatch (http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/wikiwoo.htm)

To date I've fixed the first
2 by carefully stripping, cleaning and rebuilding the shutter and using a
tiny amount of watch oil on the mechanism for B.

As of yet I haven't figured out how to adjust the speeds, has anyone here
ever done this?
************************************************** ******************
I went to National Camera's Repair School in Englewood Colo. which is no
longer in business, however I guess you can get the manuals from one of the
former teachers. I have long forgotten how to adjust the speeds but one
thing you should do is sprinkle a little graphic lube powder on the blades
as they will slide over each other better. Unless you only put a micro drop
of oil on the works, the oil will eventually find its way on to the blades
and guess what! Rather than take the whole shutter apart, you can some
times get away with just dunking the whole thing in cleaning solution and
blowing it out with compressed air. I know no decent repair tech will tell
you to do that and you didn't hear that from me. As for calibrating the
speeds, if you have an accurate phonograph you can calculate the speeds but
putting a platter on the table with a bar on it and take a picture of it at
a given speed. Then do a little math to figure out how far it traveled and
how long it would take for it to travel that far. It doesn't work like an
electronic speed tester but it would get you in the ball park. (Probably in
the outfield.) The best bet is to have a pro work on it if you want it
right. If the picture is worth taking, why take it with less than the best
you can afford? Ric in Wisconsin.

Ric Trexell spake thus:

I went to National Camera's Repair School in Englewood Colo. which is no
longer in business, however I guess you can get the manuals from one of the
former teachers. I have long forgotten how to adjust the speeds but one
thing you should do is sprinkle a little graphic lube powder on the blades
as they will slide over each other better.

Whoa, pardner: that's just plain wrong. Don't know anything about that
so-called school you went to, but if they taught you that then you
didn't get much of an education.

Graphite powder anywhere in a shutter will eventually migrate to a lens
surface, where having little black dots cannot help the image quality.

At most, you might want to rub the blades with a pencil to deposit a
very thin film of graphite on them for lubrication, but even this has to
be done carefully. And oil--never!


--
Just as McDonald's is where you go when you're hungry but don't really
care about the quality of your food, Wikipedia is where you go when
you're curious but don't really care about the quality of your knowledge.

- Matthew White's WikiWatch (http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/wikiwoo.htm)

"Martin Doyle" wrote in message
...
Thanks for looking.

Before you tell me to send it off for a CLA. (The sensible
option in 99.99% of cases) a little background.

The shutter/lens was purchased from e-bay for not a lot of
money, the glass isn't perfect so I'm reluctant to spend
money on a CLA or new shutter. When recieved the shutter
had a few faults, failure to fire on occasion, sticking B,
and slow speeds especially at the slow end. To date I've
fixed the first 2 by carefully stripping, cleaning and
rebuilding the shutter and using a tiny amount of watch
oil on the mechanism for B.

As of yet I haven't figured out how to adjust the speeds,
has anyone here ever done this? if so a few pointers would
be much appreciated.

TIA

Martin


The only real adjustment is the position of the slow
speed escapement assembly. It is set on some Compurs to get
1 second on and on others to get 1/10th on. Once these
speeds are on the rest of the slower speeds should come in.
The higher speeds are partly controlled by the escapement
but the highest speed is controlled by inertia.
Frictional losses are what slow down most shutters. The
friction is minimized by proper cleaning. Anything at all on
the shutter blades will slow them down. The opening and
closing speeds will be slowed making the shutter less
efficient.
If you test using a shutter tester that measures at a
small area at the center of the shutter the higher speeds
will read slow. Most shutters are calibrated for _effective_
speed at maximum clear aperture of the shutter. For smaller
Compurs the highest speed will measure about 20% low, i.e.,
1/500th will read 1/400 or even a bit less (around 1/380th)
when the shutter is running correctly. This is due to the
finite opening and closing times of the blades. At slower
speeds the measured speed will be more nearly the effective
speed because the opening and closing times of the blades is
the same at all speeds.
The factory settings, done by adjusting the speed control
ring cam surface will usually not require any adjustment. In
fact, its more likely that you will get it off than improve
matters.
Springs may have become fatigued with use but springs do
not lose strength with age contrary to the common wisdom.
Properly cleaning a shutter requires quite a lot of
disassembly. Often, an adequate cleaning can be done by
spraying out the shutter with solvent several times to make
sure no residue remains on the parts. The slow speed
escapement is not hard to remove for cleaning. Be careful
because it will fall apart if not carefully handled when out
of the shutter body.
Compur factory instructions indicate several types of
lubricant being used but they are refered to by Deckel part
numbers. The trunions of the slow speed escapement and flash
synchronizer should be lubricated with synthetic watch oil.
This is a very light oil which does not migrate. It can be
applied using a length of fine wire dipped in the oil.
Modern synthetic oils do not oxidize and become gummy.
Sliding surfaces can be lubricated by a fine Silicon grease.
Use a minimum of lubricant. Actually, most shutters will run
dry if really clean. This is in fact how shutters were once
prepared for very low temperature use although modern
synthetic lubricants will usually not become too viscous at
very low temperatures.
There are some books available. Many newer Compur
shutters are covered in a reprint factory manual available
from both Petra Keller at http://www.camerabooks.com and
from John S. Craig at http://www.craigcamera.com I strongly
recommend these. Also, someone, I think Craig, has the old
National Camera instruction books. These are very helpful.
You don't need many special tools. mainly a set of good
jeweller's screwdrivers. Also get a set of cheap ones and
grind down the tips to make them thin. Many of the screws in
cameras and shutters have very narrow slots which will be
damaged by standard drivers if you force them. Its also
helpful to have a couple of pairs of "Dumont" pattern
tweezers made of non-magnetic stainless steel. These are
pretty standard jeweller's tools. They are very useful for
handling small screws and other parts. Those with angled
tips are made for handling springs.
Two good solvents are Naptha and pure Isopropyl alcohol.
For final cleaning the Naptha should be pretty pure so it
does not leave a residue. Ronsonol lighter fluid seems to be
OK and isn't expensive. 99% Isopropyl can be gotten at many
drugstores. It is also sold, at a higher price, by electronc
supply places. The purity is mostly a matter of dryness.
Rubbing alcohol is about 70%, the remaining 30% being water,
which is left behind when the alcohol evaporates. That's too
much so get the dry stuff. The standard cleaner some years
ago was 1,1,1,Trichloroethane but its damaging to the
environment and the other solvent work nearly as well.
I learned to fix my own shutters out of self protection
although there are a handfull of really good shutter and
camera repair people around.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...
Ric Trexell spake thus:
but one
thing you should do is sprinkle a little graphic lube powder on the
blades
as they will slide over each other better.

Whoa, pardner: that's just plain wrong. Don't know anything about that
so-called school you went to, but if they taught you that then you
didn't get much of an education.

Graphite powder anywhere in a shutter will eventually migrate to a lens
surface, where having little black dots cannot help the image quality.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
_
I should have explained that a little better. I didn't mean to just dump
graphic lube on there like putting salt on the eggs you ate at breakfast.
We would put some on and wipe it off with a Q-tip. Ofcourse anything that
is extra will get in the lense. The lube we put on would be like waxing
your car. It wasn't loose and was actually polished in. I reread what I
wrote and that did sound rather silly. I guess I wasn't thinking. Sorry.
However, I still think a light layer of graphic powder was the standard
lube. Ric in Wisconsin.

Thanks for the information.

I'll look into measuring the shutter speeds before proceeding further.

For the record, the amount of oil I used really was tiny, but I will keep an
eye to see if any migrates to the blades. My decision to use oil followed a
cleaning in lighter fluid, immediately after which the shutter worked but
after a few hours failed to close on B.

It's largely an academic exercise, as I stated the glass ain't great but I
would like to take the opportunity to learn a little about shutters.

Cheers

Martin




"Martin Doyle" wrote in message
...
Thanks for looking.

Before you tell me to send it off for a CLA. (The sensible option in
99.99% of cases) a little background.

The shutter/lens was purchased from e-bay for not a lot of money, the
glass isn't perfect so I'm reluctant to spend money on a CLA or new
shutter. When recieved the shutter had a few faults, failure to fire on
occasion, sticking B, and slow speeds especially at the slow end. To date
I've fixed the first 2 by carefully stripping, cleaning and rebuilding the
shutter and using a tiny amount of watch oil on the mechanism for B.

As of yet I haven't figured out how to adjust the speeds, has anyone here
ever done this? if so a few pointers would be much appreciated.

TIA

Martin

"Martin Doyle" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the information.
My decision to use oil followed a
cleaning in lighter fluid, immediately after which the shutter worked but
after a few hours failed to close on B.
************************************************** *************
Martin: Try using Carbo-Clor, it is made by Sunnyvil or something like that
and is sold at your hardware store. It is the replacement for
carbon-tetrachloride which had the tendency to destroy your liver and the
environment. The new stuff just destroys your liver, but helps to save the
world. A good air compressor will allow you to blow out the hidden remnents
of cleaning solution. Chances are the shutter speeds will not be that far
off, however that is the big problem with cleaning. When I took that course
I had to clean a Nikon F and could not get the speeds to come in. Only
after the third cleaning would they come in. Ofcourse that was not a leaf
shutter but the gears must have had a little dirt that only came out after
that last cleaning. If you plan to do a lot more of this sort of stuff,
Calumet Photography has a little shutter tester for around $200. These are
not as good as the $2000 ones a repair person uses but will get you in the
neighborhood. Ric in Wisconsin.

Illustrated repair and adjustment "instructions" are on
the web. There are several variations on the Compur
shutter but they all have a strong family resemblance.
Some sites, supplied with no warranty, a

http://pheugo.com/cameras/compur/compur.html
http://www.daniel.mitchell.name/came...ly/compur.html
http://www.rolandandcaroline.co.uk/synchro-compur.html

Several sites sell the factory Compur manuals.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
http://www.nolindan.com/da/index.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com

"Martin Doyle" wrote in message
...
Thanks for looking.

Before you tell me to send it off for a CLA. (The sensible option in
99.99% of cases) a little background.

The shutter/lens was purchased from e-bay for not a lot of money, the
glass isn't perfect so I'm reluctant to spend money on a CLA or new
shutter. When recieved the shutter had a few faults, failure to fire on
occasion, sticking B, and slow speeds especially at the slow end. To date
I've fixed the first 2 by carefully stripping, cleaning and rebuilding the
shutter and using a tiny amount of watch oil on the mechanism for B.

As of yet I haven't figured out how to adjust the speeds, has anyone here
ever done this? if so a few pointers would be much appreciated.

TIA

Martin