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  #21  
Old August 3rd 15, 11:07 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,alt.photography
PeterN[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,254
Default Risked a pot pie

On 8/3/2015 4:13 PM, MC wrote:
PeterN wrote:

On 8/3/2015 8:56 AM, MC wrote:
I wouldn't bother trying to help him at this point.


That's always your call.


He posts his images, often inviting constructive criticism (posting
alone on a ng like this you are going to get that anyway), yet when
you point out even the bleedin' obvious he is in denial he has done
anything wrong. We have all gone over with him the same errors in
his "enhancement" techniques (be it heavy cropping, shappening
etc.) time after time after time yet he still uses the same methods
to hide his inefficiencies in the actual mechanics of taking a
photograph.

The only way he can improve his photography is to dump the
post-processing malarky and practice getting it right in-camera,
posting the images straight out of camera for critique if he wants
"advice" rather than try and attempt to salvage and post the
rubbish in the hope we will not notice.


It's easy to say "get it right in the camera." That is rarely
possible, or practicable, especially with the type of work I like to
do. Could you ever get either of these images in the camera?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/baboon%20%20bliss.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/swooper.jpg



Neither example is becoming of a good photographer. They just show
just someone who can play about with a computer (first one is rather
tacky and horrible, by the way).

Trouble is, you need to get the basics right first before you try and
be something you are not. Gold is easy to make shiny because you have
a naturally shiny sunbstance to begin with. However, no amount of
polishing will make **** shiny.


Also, "A bad workman always blames his tools", this time I notice
it is his monitor taking the blame.


I don't think even you could work on a dead monitor, or even a 14"
laptop screen.



Well then, don't use them. Wait until you have the tools to work
properly, not blame your own inadequecies because your tools are broken.


That's your opinion. It may or may not be shared. But, that is what I
like to do. I also did things like that in the darkroom. I made pin
registration masks and spent hours. I find it relaxing. You obviously
don't.
BTW the second has done fairly well in competitions.

This one has done very well. It would be highly impractical unless I
cropped.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/test/snow%20leopard22%20larger.jpg


No one says you have to like it, but I do, and that's what counts. Yes,
it is extremely sharp, it needs to be.


--
PeterN
  #22  
Old August 3rd 15, 11:10 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,alt.photography
PeterN[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,254
Default Risked a pot pie

On 8/3/2015 5:36 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Mon, 03 Aug 2015 20:13:33 GMT, "MC" wrote:

PeterN wrote:

On 8/3/2015 8:56 AM, MC wrote:
I wouldn't bother trying to help him at this point.

That's always your call.


He posts his images, often inviting constructive criticism (posting
alone on a ng like this you are going to get that anyway), yet when
you point out even the bleedin' obvious he is in denial he has done
anything wrong. We have all gone over with him the same errors in
his "enhancement" techniques (be it heavy cropping, shappening
etc.) time after time after time yet he still uses the same methods
to hide his inefficiencies in the actual mechanics of taking a
photograph.

The only way he can improve his photography is to dump the
post-processing malarky and practice getting it right in-camera,
posting the images straight out of camera for critique if he wants
"advice" rather than try and attempt to salvage and post the
rubbish in the hope we will not notice.

It's easy to say "get it right in the camera." That is rarely
possible, or practicable, especially with the type of work I like to
do. Could you ever get either of these images in the camera?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/baboon%20%20bliss.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/swooper.jpg



Neither example is becoming of a good photographer. They just show
just someone who can play about with a computer (first one is rather
tacky and horrible, by the way).

Trouble is, you need to get the basics right first before you try and
be something you are not. Gold is easy to make shiny because you have
a naturally shiny sunbstance to begin with. However, no amount of
polishing will make **** shiny.


Also, "A bad workman always blames his tools", this time I notice
it is his monitor taking the blame.

I don't think even you could work on a dead monitor, or even a 14"
laptop screen.



Well then, don't use them. Wait until you have the tools to work
properly, not blame your own inadequecies because your tools are broken.


What on earth makes you think that your opinion is worth having after
a diatribe like that?


I don't recall seeing any of his work. But don't worry, I have a very
think skin. If he doesn't appreciate what I am attempting, that's his loss.

--
PeterN
  #23  
Old August 4th 15, 12:16 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,alt.photography
PeterN[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,254
Default Risked a pot pie

On 8/3/2015 4:13 PM, MC wrote:
PeterN wrote:

On 8/3/2015 8:56 AM, MC wrote:
I wouldn't bother trying to help him at this point.


That's always your call.


He posts his images, often inviting constructive criticism (posting
alone on a ng like this you are going to get that anyway), yet when
you point out even the bleedin' obvious he is in denial he has done
anything wrong. We have all gone over with him the same errors in
his "enhancement" techniques (be it heavy cropping, shappening
etc.) time after time after time yet he still uses the same methods
to hide his inefficiencies in the actual mechanics of taking a
photograph.

The only way he can improve his photography is to dump the
post-processing malarky and practice getting it right in-camera,
posting the images straight out of camera for critique if he wants
"advice" rather than try and attempt to salvage and post the
rubbish in the hope we will not notice.


It's easy to say "get it right in the camera." That is rarely
possible, or practicable, especially with the type of work I like to
do. Could you ever get either of these images in the camera?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/baboon%20%20bliss.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/swooper.jpg



Neither example is becoming of a good photographer. They just show
just someone who can play about with a computer (first one is rather
tacky and horrible, by the way).

Trouble is, you need to get the basics right first before you try and
be something you are not. Gold is easy to make shiny because you have
a naturally shiny sunbstance to begin with. However, no amount of
polishing will make **** shiny.


I forgot to add. When the Duck makes a comment, he is intending to be
helpful, and it comes across to me that way. I don't recall you making a
helpful comment. If I am wrong, I apologize.
Also I could not find the word: "sunbustance" in any dictionary. What
language is that word in.



Well then, don't use them. Wait until you have the tools to work
properly, not blame your own inadequecies because your tools are broken.


You need a lesson in reality.

--
PeterN
  #24  
Old August 4th 15, 01:22 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,alt.photography
PeterN[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,254
Default Risked a pot pie

On 8/3/2015 7:56 PM, MC wrote:
Eric Stevens wrote:

On Mon, 03 Aug 2015 20:13:33 GMT, "MC" wrote:

PeterN wrote:

On 8/3/2015 8:56 AM, MC wrote:
I wouldn't bother trying to help him at this point.

That's always your call.


He posts his images, often inviting constructive criticism

(posting alone on a ng like this you are going to get that
anyway), yet when you point out even the bleedin' obvious he is
in denial he has done anything wrong. We have all gone over
with him the same errors in his "enhancement" techniques (be it
heavy cropping, shappening etc.) time after time after time yet
he still uses the same methods to hide his inefficiencies in the
actual mechanics of taking a photograph.

The only way he can improve his photography is to dump the
post-processing malarky and practice getting it right in-camera,
posting the images straight out of camera for critique if he

wants "advice" rather than try and attempt to salvage and post
the rubbish in the hope we will not notice.

It's easy to say "get it right in the camera." That is rarely
possible, or practicable, especially with the type of work I like

to do. Could you ever get either of these images in the camera?


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/baboon%20%20bliss.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/swooper.jpg


Neither example is becoming of a good photographer. They just show
just someone who can play about with a computer (first one is rather
tacky and horrible, by the way).

Trouble is, you need to get the basics right first before you try
and be something you are not. Gold is easy to make shiny because
you have a naturally shiny sunbstance to begin with. However, no
amount of polishing will make **** shiny.


Also, "A bad workman always blames his tools", this time I notice
it is his monitor taking the blame.

I don't think even you could work on a dead monitor, or even a 14"
laptop screen.


Well then, don't use them. Wait until you have the tools to work
properly, not blame your own inadequecies because your tools are
broken.


What on earth makes you think that your opinion is worth having after
a diatribe like that?


He blamed a broken monitor for his inadequate skills. I stand by what
I say and that a bad workman does, indeed always blame his tools. He
blamed his tools. If neither of you like that then that is yet to be my
problem. Get over it.


If you have images that you have posted, we would like to see them. For
some reason I am beginning to question your qualifications to judge work.
If you are an event photographer, you must be aware that event
photography is totally different from what I do. We await your
qualifications with bated breath.

--
PeterN
  #25  
Old August 4th 15, 04:32 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,alt.photography
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default Risked a pot pie

On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 00:26:58 GMT, "MC" wrote:

--- snip ---

No one says you have to like it, but I do, and that's what counts.
Yes, it is extremely sharp, it needs to be.


It "needs" to be? Why does it "need" to be? Because you say so?
Nothing "needs" to be anything. You may "like" it to be but it does
not "need" to be.


It needs 'to be' because that's how he likes it.

It doesn't seem to have dawned on you that that's how he likes it
because that's his taste. And then you go on to write:
"I do not criticise somebody else's taste because tastes do, indeed,
differ ... "

I do not criticise somebody else's taste because tastes do, indeed,
differ including mine. I will say if I like or do not like something
but I will never be critical of someone else's taste if it differs to
my own.


What do you think you have been doing in your last few posts but
criticising his tastes? So much for your "I will never be critical of
someone else's taste if it differs to my own."

However, I will criticise someone's skill, especially when they
continually ignore suggestions designed to help said person to improve
that skill. Many times you have been given advice (not necessarily
mine), many times you have ignored it and continued posting images with
the same technical errors. You are in constant denial that your images
are often flawed and you blame anything, including your tools, other
than the one thing you need to improve, basic technique.


It still hasn't got through to you that PeterN's images so often look
the way they do because that's the way he likes it. It's not due to
his lack of skill: it's his personal taste.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #26  
Old August 4th 15, 04:33 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,alt.photography
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default Risked a pot pie

On Mon, 03 Aug 2015 19:16:19 -0400, PeterN
wrote:

On 8/3/2015 4:13 PM, MC wrote:
PeterN wrote:

On 8/3/2015 8:56 AM, MC wrote:
I wouldn't bother trying to help him at this point.

That's always your call.


He posts his images, often inviting constructive criticism (posting
alone on a ng like this you are going to get that anyway), yet when
you point out even the bleedin' obvious he is in denial he has done
anything wrong. We have all gone over with him the same errors in
his "enhancement" techniques (be it heavy cropping, shappening
etc.) time after time after time yet he still uses the same methods
to hide his inefficiencies in the actual mechanics of taking a
photograph.

The only way he can improve his photography is to dump the
post-processing malarky and practice getting it right in-camera,
posting the images straight out of camera for critique if he wants
"advice" rather than try and attempt to salvage and post the
rubbish in the hope we will not notice.

It's easy to say "get it right in the camera." That is rarely
possible, or practicable, especially with the type of work I like to
do. Could you ever get either of these images in the camera?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/baboon%20%20bliss.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/swooper.jpg



Neither example is becoming of a good photographer. They just show
just someone who can play about with a computer (first one is rather
tacky and horrible, by the way).

Trouble is, you need to get the basics right first before you try and
be something you are not. Gold is easy to make shiny because you have
a naturally shiny sunbstance to begin with. However, no amount of
polishing will make **** shiny.


I forgot to add. When the Duck makes a comment, he is intending to be
helpful, and it comes across to me that way. I don't recall you making a
helpful comment. If I am wrong, I apologize.
Also I could not find the word: "sunbustance" in any dictionary. What
language is that word in.



Well then, don't use them. Wait until you have the tools to work
properly, not blame your own inadequecies because your tools are broken.


You need a lesson in reality.


And civility.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #27  
Old August 4th 15, 10:24 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,alt.photography
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default Risked a pot pie

On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 04:16:49 GMT, "MC" wrote:

Eric Stevens wrote:

On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 00:26:58 GMT, "MC" wrote:

--- snip ---

No one says you have to like it, but I do, and that's what counts.
Yes, it is extremely sharp, it needs to be.

It "needs" to be? Why does it "need" to be? Because you say so?
Nothing "needs" to be anything. You may "like" it to be but it does
not "need" to be.


It needs 'to be' because that's how he likes it.



Erm have you actually read and understood my post?


Yes, and you have missed the central point. PeterN does it on purpose
because that's how he likes it.


It doesn't seem to have dawned on you that that's how he likes it
because that's his taste. And then you go on to write:
"I do not criticise somebody else's taste because tastes do, indeed,
differ ... "



Erm have you actually read and understood my post?


Yes, and you have missed the central point. PeterN does it on purpose
because that's how he likes it.


I do not criticise somebody else's taste because tastes do, indeed,
differ including mine. I will say if I like or do not like
something but I will never be critical of someone else's taste if
it differs to my own.


What do you think you have been doing in your last few posts but
criticising his tastes? So much for your "I will never be critical of
someone else's taste if it differs to my own."



Erm have you actually read and understood my post?


Yes, and you have missed the central point. PeterN does it on purpose
because that's how he likes it.


However, I will criticise someone's skill, especially when they
continually ignore suggestions designed to help said person to
improve that skill. Many times you have been given advice (not
necessarily mine), many times you have ignored it and continued
posting images with the same technical errors. You are in constant
denial that your images are often flawed and you blame anything,
including your tools, other than the one thing you need to improve,
basic technique.


It still hasn't got through to you that PeterN's images so often look
the way they do because that's the way he likes it. It's not due to
his lack of skill: it's his personal taste.



Erm, have you actually read and understood my post?... I think not.


Yes, and you have missed the central point. PeterN does it on purpose
because that's how he likes it. And if you actually did think you
would have understood that point a long time ago.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #28  
Old August 4th 15, 04:20 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,alt.photography
PeterN[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,254
Default Risked a pot pie

On 8/3/2015 8:26 PM, MC wrote:
PeterN wrote:

On 8/3/2015 4:13 PM, MC wrote:
PeterN wrote:

On 8/3/2015 8:56 AM, MC wrote:
I wouldn't bother trying to help him at this point.

That's always your call.


He posts his images, often inviting constructive criticism
(posting alone on a ng like this you are going to get that
anyway), yet when you point out even the bleedin' obvious he is
in denial he has done anything wrong. We have all gone over
with him the same errors in his "enhancement" techniques (be it
heavy cropping, shappening etc.) time after time after time yet
he still uses the same methods to hide his inefficiencies in
the actual mechanics of taking a photograph.

The only way he can improve his photography is to dump the
post-processing malarky and practice getting it right in-camera,
posting the images straight out of camera for critique if he
wants "advice" rather than try and attempt to salvage and post
the rubbish in the hope we will not notice.

It's easy to say "get it right in the camera." That is rarely
possible, or practicable, especially with the type of work I like
to do. Could you ever get either of these images in the camera?


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/baboon%20%20bliss.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/swooper.jpg


Neither example is becoming of a good photographer. They just show
just someone who can play about with a computer (first one is rather
tacky and horrible, by the way).

Trouble is, you need to get the basics right first before you try
and be something you are not. Gold is easy to make shiny because
you have a naturally shiny sunbstance to begin with. However, no
amount of polishing will make **** shiny.


Also, "A bad workman always blames his tools", this time I
notice it is his monitor taking the blame.

I don't think even you could work on a dead monitor, or even a 14"
laptop screen.


Well then, don't use them. Wait until you have the tools to work
properly, not blame your own inadequecies because your tools are
broken.


That's your opinion. It may or may not be shared. But, that is what I
like to do. I also did things like that in the darkroom. I made pin
registration masks and spent hours. I find it relaxing. You obviously
don't. BTW the second has done fairly well in competitions.

This one has done very well. It would be highly impractical unless I
cropped.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/test/snow%20leopard22%20larger.jpg

No one says you have to like it, but I do, and that's what counts.
Yes, it is extremely sharp, it needs to be.


It "needs" to be? Why does it "need" to be? Because you say so?
Nothing "needs" to be anything. You may "like" it to be but it does
not "need" to be.


Because that's what the image tells ME it want to be.



I do not criticise somebody else's taste because tastes do, indeed,
differ including mine. I will say if I like or do not like something
but I will never be critical of someone else's taste if it differs to
my own.


You just did.

However, I will criticise someone's skill, especially when they
continually ignore suggestions designed to help said person to improve
that skill. Many times you have been given advice (not necessarily
mine), many times you have ignored it and continued posting images with
the same technical errors. You are in constant denial that your images
are often flawed and you blame anything, including your tools, other
than the one thing you need to improve, basic technique.


Yes there is always room for improvement in my skills. But I usually,
not always, get the essential look I want.


--
PeterN
  #29  
Old August 4th 15, 04:24 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,alt.photography
PeterN[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,254
Default Risked a pot pie

On 8/3/2015 8:58 PM, MC wrote:
PeterN wrote:

I forgot to add. When the Duck makes a comment, he is intending to be
helpful, and it comes across to me that way



And yet rather than accept he may have a point you continue to try and
justify why your images do not need improving and that you deliberately
made them that way (either that or your equipment was to blame for any
flaws). You are alway posting and asking for critique but are never
willing to learn from any of it.


I don't recall you making a helpful comment. If I am wrong, I

apologize.


I have often reiterated what others have said, in the hope it may get
through. I also say what I see and it is no skin of my nose how you
take it.


Also I could not find the word: "sunbustance" in any dictionary. What

language is
that word in.



Ah, the obligatory clutch at staws in an attempt to discredit my words.
I can't remember asking for critique on my keyboard skills but thanks
anyway and as I am not in denial that my skills in using a keyboard
are, it seems, lacking I shall try and remember to type the word
"substance" better next time.


Well then, don't use them. Wait until you have the tools to work
properly, not blame your own inadequecies because your tools are
broken.


You need a lesson in reality.


scratchesheadWhat?/scratcheshead


Watch out for splinters


--
PeterN
  #30  
Old August 4th 15, 04:25 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,alt.photography
PeterN[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,254
Default Risked a pot pie

On 8/3/2015 9:09 PM, MC wrote:
PeterN wrote:

If you have images that you have posted, we would like to see them.
For some reason I am beginning to question your qualifications to
judge work.



Why do you think I care? You are quite free not to read my posts, it's
no skin of my nose.


If you are an event photographer, you must be aware that
event photography is totally different from what I do.



Eh? Where did event photography come into it?


We await your qualifications with bated breath.



Ho hum.


MC


That's what I thought.

--
PeterN
 




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