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Inexplicably, Nikon, known for rapacious lens prices releases acheap 200-500mm f/5.6



 
 
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  #11  
Old August 6th 15, 01:44 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,254
Default Inexplicably, Nikon, known for rapacious lens prices releasesa cheap 200-500mm f/5.6

On 8/5/2015 6:45 PM, Me wrote:

context changing snip

The other issue is a
tradeoff between general build quality and weight.



Last time I was at South Beach, I saw no tradeoff between build quality
and weight. ;-)



--
PeterN
  #12  
Old August 6th 15, 02:18 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PAS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 480
Default Inexplicably, Nikon, known for rapacious lens prices releases a cheap 200-500mm f/5.6

"Me" wrote in message
...
On 06/08/2015 01:49, PAS wrote:
"RichA" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 4 August 2015 16:58:36 UTC-4, Me wrote:
On 04/08/2015 17:06, RichA wrote:
$1400? How? If it turns out to be good, it'll be the biggest
bargain they've offered.

Rumour is Tamron might have built it. I sure hope not. If they

release a 24mp D400 and this lens, it would be a wildlife shooter's

dream. Compact and powerful.

Fantastic and about time.
Isn't the Nikkor 10-24 DX lens made by Tamron?
Perhaps Tamron (& Sigma) proved another point - that optically very
good
long "consumer" zooms can be made at a much lower price point than
anybody expected.

I can't say it's good, because I've never used a Tamron or Sigma
long-range zoom.


Really! I've never used a D810 but I know it's a darn good camera.
You
don't necessarily have to use something to know how good it is or
isn't.
As someone who likes to quote dpreview at times, do a little reading
in
the forums there and see how the vast majority of users are happy
with
their Sigma and Tamron 150-600mm lenses. You can read some reviews
too.


Nikon were really pushing it with their 80-400 AFS - with pro-level
pricing for something quite ordinary.

It was ridiculous. Most people made the point you just did.

I'd be surprised if the 200-500
is any worse in build quality, weather sealing etc.
It's a great time for Nikon DSLR owners.

No weather sealing, but the thing doesn't look like a 70-300mm
either.


There's an obvious issue with weather sealing and build quality with
these extending zooms, firstly that they're like bicycle pumps, air
has to get in and out, the hope is that some of the crap in the air is
filtered out by seals around the extending barrel. The other issue is
a tradeoff between general build quality and weight. I tried using a
Sigma 150-600 "S" model, and it's very heavy. I could use it
hand-held - but not for very long. I've tried the Nikkor 80-400D a
couple of times, and found them to be unacceptably soft at the long
end which bothers me even more than the slow focusing. I've tried the
Nikkor 80-400 AFS which is much much better than the old model, but
they are very very expensive and are not well sealed - plenty of
information out there from people who have used them in dusty
environments and had them fill up with enough dust behind the front
element for it to become a problem for optical performance. I doubt
the Nikkor 200-500 will be worse.
The Tamron 150-600 also sucks dust in - fortunately the front element
assembly is very easily removed for internal cleaning. Next time I do
it, I'll post photos/instructions to DPreview or Youtube. There is a
risk to stuff things up as shims are retained by friction only from
screws holding the element assembly to the barrel, and if they all
fell out at the same time and got mixed up on your bench, you'd have a
problem. With mine, the combined shim thickness was identical in each
of the 3 positions, but that might not be the case with other samples
of the lens where the shims may be used for centering the front
elements rather than just setting infinity focus. It's a 10-15 minute
job, only special tool needed is a torx T2 screwdriver.
It's a very plastic lens, about what I'd have expected for the price,
but feels well-enough made. If it was dropped though - I don't think
the result would be very good. I'll try out the Nikkor 200-500 when
it arrives at my local camera store.

The Tamron is extremely good up to 500mm, but at 500-600mm, then
practically achieving what it's optically capable of is a real
challenge. One issue is that at 600mm, with continuous AF-C, it will
tend to make micro focus adjustments on a static subject, enough so
that accurate focus is a lottery unless you switch to AF-S. Nikon's
dumb placement of the AF mode switch on the D8*0 makes switching
between AF-S and AF-C a hassle with a large lens used hand-held, so if
you're focus-tracking a subject, then want to zoom in when the subject
stops moving, it's less than ideal. Manual focus at the 600mm end is
an impossibility hand-held, the focus ring action is too highly geared
to make any accurate adjustment overriding AF.


You can hand-hold the Sigma 150-600mm S lens, even if just for just a
short period of time? I envy you, really.

  #13  
Old August 6th 15, 02:22 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PAS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 480
Default Inexplicably, Nikon, known for rapacious lens prices releases a cheap 200-500mm f/5.6

"RichA" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 5 August 2015 09:49:25 UTC-4, PAS wrote:
"RichA" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 4 August 2015 16:58:36 UTC-4, Me wrote:
On 04/08/2015 17:06, RichA wrote:
$1400? How? If it turns out to be good, it'll be the biggest
bargain they've offered.

Rumour is Tamron might have built it. I sure hope not. If they
release a 24mp D400 and this lens, it would be a wildlife
shooter's
dream. Compact and powerful.

Fantastic and about time.
Isn't the Nikkor 10-24 DX lens made by Tamron?
Perhaps Tamron (& Sigma) proved another point - that optically
very
good
long "consumer" zooms can be made at a much lower price point than
anybody expected.

I can't say it's good, because I've never used a Tamron or Sigma
long-range zoom.


Really! I've never used a D810 but I know it's a darn good camera.
You
don't necessarily have to use something to know how good it is or
isn't.
As someone who likes to quote dpreview at times, do a little reading
in
the forums there and see how the vast majority of users are happy
with
their Sigma and Tamron 150-600mm lenses. You can read some reviews
too.


You can't win with opinion. If I'd said they were good, but I'd never
used them, I'd have been called on that too! I've seen some decent
output from Sigma long zooms, but I'd read detractors of them too.


It's how you say it, choose your words differently. If there are enough
reports from fellow users as to the how good a lens is, you can safely
say that you tend to believe a lens is good based on what others report,
including reviews. Same about a lens being bad. I've more than
"decent" output from Sigma long lenses, same for Tamron and others.

  #14  
Old August 6th 15, 10:53 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default Inexplicably, Nikon, known for rapacious lens prices releases a cheap 200-500mm f/5.6

On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 09:18:47 -0400, "PAS" wrote:

"Me" wrote in message
...
On 06/08/2015 01:49, PAS wrote:
"RichA" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 4 August 2015 16:58:36 UTC-4, Me wrote:
On 04/08/2015 17:06, RichA wrote:
$1400? How? If it turns out to be good, it'll be the biggest
bargain they've offered.

Rumour is Tamron might have built it. I sure hope not. If they

release a 24mp D400 and this lens, it would be a wildlife shooter's

dream. Compact and powerful.

Fantastic and about time.
Isn't the Nikkor 10-24 DX lens made by Tamron?
Perhaps Tamron (& Sigma) proved another point - that optically very
good
long "consumer" zooms can be made at a much lower price point than
anybody expected.

I can't say it's good, because I've never used a Tamron or Sigma
long-range zoom.

Really! I've never used a D810 but I know it's a darn good camera.
You
don't necessarily have to use something to know how good it is or
isn't.
As someone who likes to quote dpreview at times, do a little reading
in
the forums there and see how the vast majority of users are happy
with
their Sigma and Tamron 150-600mm lenses. You can read some reviews
too.


Nikon were really pushing it with their 80-400 AFS - with pro-level
pricing for something quite ordinary.

It was ridiculous. Most people made the point you just did.

I'd be surprised if the 200-500
is any worse in build quality, weather sealing etc.
It's a great time for Nikon DSLR owners.

No weather sealing, but the thing doesn't look like a 70-300mm
either.


There's an obvious issue with weather sealing and build quality with
these extending zooms, firstly that they're like bicycle pumps, air
has to get in and out, the hope is that some of the crap in the air is
filtered out by seals around the extending barrel. The other issue is
a tradeoff between general build quality and weight. I tried using a
Sigma 150-600 "S" model, and it's very heavy. I could use it
hand-held - but not for very long. I've tried the Nikkor 80-400D a
couple of times, and found them to be unacceptably soft at the long
end which bothers me even more than the slow focusing. I've tried the
Nikkor 80-400 AFS which is much much better than the old model, but
they are very very expensive and are not well sealed - plenty of
information out there from people who have used them in dusty
environments and had them fill up with enough dust behind the front
element for it to become a problem for optical performance. I doubt
the Nikkor 200-500 will be worse.
The Tamron 150-600 also sucks dust in - fortunately the front element
assembly is very easily removed for internal cleaning. Next time I do
it, I'll post photos/instructions to DPreview or Youtube. There is a
risk to stuff things up as shims are retained by friction only from
screws holding the element assembly to the barrel, and if they all
fell out at the same time and got mixed up on your bench, you'd have a
problem. With mine, the combined shim thickness was identical in each
of the 3 positions, but that might not be the case with other samples
of the lens where the shims may be used for centering the front
elements rather than just setting infinity focus. It's a 10-15 minute
job, only special tool needed is a torx T2 screwdriver.
It's a very plastic lens, about what I'd have expected for the price,
but feels well-enough made. If it was dropped though - I don't think
the result would be very good. I'll try out the Nikkor 200-500 when
it arrives at my local camera store.

The Tamron is extremely good up to 500mm, but at 500-600mm, then
practically achieving what it's optically capable of is a real
challenge. One issue is that at 600mm, with continuous AF-C, it will
tend to make micro focus adjustments on a static subject, enough so
that accurate focus is a lottery unless you switch to AF-S. Nikon's
dumb placement of the AF mode switch on the D8*0 makes switching
between AF-S and AF-C a hassle with a large lens used hand-held, so if
you're focus-tracking a subject, then want to zoom in when the subject
stops moving, it's less than ideal. Manual focus at the 600mm end is
an impossibility hand-held, the focus ring action is too highly geared
to make any accurate adjustment overriding AF.


You can hand-hold the Sigma 150-600mm S lens, even if just for just a
short period of time? I envy you, really.


See
https://photographylife.com/shooting...50-600mm-sport
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #15  
Old August 7th 15, 02:44 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Me
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 470
Default Inexplicably, Nikon, known for rapacious lens prices releases acheap 200-500mm f/5.6

On 07/08/2015 09:53, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 09:18:47 -0400, "PAS" wrote:

"Me" wrote in message
...
On 06/08/2015 01:49, PAS wrote:
"RichA" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 4 August 2015 16:58:36 UTC-4, Me wrote:
On 04/08/2015 17:06, RichA wrote:
$1400? How? If it turns out to be good, it'll be the biggest
bargain they've offered.

Rumour is Tamron might have built it. I sure hope not. If they

release a 24mp D400 and this lens, it would be a wildlife shooter's

dream. Compact and powerful.

Fantastic and about time.
Isn't the Nikkor 10-24 DX lens made by Tamron?
Perhaps Tamron (& Sigma) proved another point - that optically very
good
long "consumer" zooms can be made at a much lower price point than
anybody expected.

I can't say it's good, because I've never used a Tamron or Sigma
long-range zoom.

Really! I've never used a D810 but I know it's a darn good camera.
You
don't necessarily have to use something to know how good it is or
isn't.
As someone who likes to quote dpreview at times, do a little reading
in
the forums there and see how the vast majority of users are happy
with
their Sigma and Tamron 150-600mm lenses. You can read some reviews
too.


Nikon were really pushing it with their 80-400 AFS - with pro-level
pricing for something quite ordinary.

It was ridiculous. Most people made the point you just did.

I'd be surprised if the 200-500
is any worse in build quality, weather sealing etc.
It's a great time for Nikon DSLR owners.

No weather sealing, but the thing doesn't look like a 70-300mm
either.


There's an obvious issue with weather sealing and build quality with
these extending zooms, firstly that they're like bicycle pumps, air
has to get in and out, the hope is that some of the crap in the air is
filtered out by seals around the extending barrel. The other issue is
a tradeoff between general build quality and weight. I tried using a
Sigma 150-600 "S" model, and it's very heavy. I could use it
hand-held - but not for very long. I've tried the Nikkor 80-400D a
couple of times, and found them to be unacceptably soft at the long
end which bothers me even more than the slow focusing. I've tried the
Nikkor 80-400 AFS which is much much better than the old model, but
they are very very expensive and are not well sealed - plenty of
information out there from people who have used them in dusty
environments and had them fill up with enough dust behind the front
element for it to become a problem for optical performance. I doubt
the Nikkor 200-500 will be worse.
The Tamron 150-600 also sucks dust in - fortunately the front element
assembly is very easily removed for internal cleaning. Next time I do
it, I'll post photos/instructions to DPreview or Youtube. There is a
risk to stuff things up as shims are retained by friction only from
screws holding the element assembly to the barrel, and if they all
fell out at the same time and got mixed up on your bench, you'd have a
problem. With mine, the combined shim thickness was identical in each
of the 3 positions, but that might not be the case with other samples
of the lens where the shims may be used for centering the front
elements rather than just setting infinity focus. It's a 10-15 minute
job, only special tool needed is a torx T2 screwdriver.
It's a very plastic lens, about what I'd have expected for the price,
but feels well-enough made. If it was dropped though - I don't think
the result would be very good. I'll try out the Nikkor 200-500 when
it arrives at my local camera store.

The Tamron is extremely good up to 500mm, but at 500-600mm, then
practically achieving what it's optically capable of is a real
challenge. One issue is that at 600mm, with continuous AF-C, it will
tend to make micro focus adjustments on a static subject, enough so
that accurate focus is a lottery unless you switch to AF-S. Nikon's
dumb placement of the AF mode switch on the D8*0 makes switching
between AF-S and AF-C a hassle with a large lens used hand-held, so if
you're focus-tracking a subject, then want to zoom in when the subject
stops moving, it's less than ideal. Manual focus at the 600mm end is
an impossibility hand-held, the focus ring action is too highly geared
to make any accurate adjustment overriding AF.


You can hand-hold the Sigma 150-600mm S lens, even if just for just a
short period of time? I envy you, really.


See
https://photographylife.com/shooting...50-600mm-sport

There's no doubt it's not comfortable - except perhaps for a
weightlifter, but it certainly can done.
The Tamron 150-600, Sigma 150-600 "C", and this new Nikkor 200-500 are
give or take about 1kg lighter. Similar weight to a Nikkor 70-200 f2.8
VR for carrying in a backpack etc, but they are longer - especially when
extended - and that extra length makes a difference.
  #16  
Old August 7th 15, 04:04 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PAS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 480
Default Inexplicably, Nikon, known for rapacious lens prices releases a cheap 200-500mm f/5.6

"Eric Stevens" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 09:18:47 -0400, "PAS" wrote:

"Me" wrote in message
...
On 06/08/2015 01:49, PAS wrote:
"RichA" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 4 August 2015 16:58:36 UTC-4, Me wrote:
On 04/08/2015 17:06, RichA wrote:
$1400? How? If it turns out to be good, it'll be the biggest

bargain they've offered.

Rumour is Tamron might have built it. I sure hope not. If
they

release a 24mp D400 and this lens, it would be a wildlife
shooter's

dream. Compact and powerful.

Fantastic and about time.
Isn't the Nikkor 10-24 DX lens made by Tamron?
Perhaps Tamron (& Sigma) proved another point - that optically
very
good
long "consumer" zooms can be made at a much lower price point
than
anybody expected.

I can't say it's good, because I've never used a Tamron or Sigma
long-range zoom.

Really! I've never used a D810 but I know it's a darn good camera.
You
don't necessarily have to use something to know how good it is or
isn't.
As someone who likes to quote dpreview at times, do a little
reading
in
the forums there and see how the vast majority of users are happy
with
their Sigma and Tamron 150-600mm lenses. You can read some reviews
too.


Nikon were really pushing it with their 80-400 AFS - with
pro-level
pricing for something quite ordinary.

It was ridiculous. Most people made the point you just did.

I'd be surprised if the 200-500
is any worse in build quality, weather sealing etc.
It's a great time for Nikon DSLR owners.

No weather sealing, but the thing doesn't look like a 70-300mm
either.


There's an obvious issue with weather sealing and build quality with
these extending zooms, firstly that they're like bicycle pumps, air
has to get in and out, the hope is that some of the crap in the air
is
filtered out by seals around the extending barrel. The other issue
is
a tradeoff between general build quality and weight. I tried using
a
Sigma 150-600 "S" model, and it's very heavy. I could use it
hand-held - but not for very long. I've tried the Nikkor 80-400D a
couple of times, and found them to be unacceptably soft at the long
end which bothers me even more than the slow focusing. I've tried
the
Nikkor 80-400 AFS which is much much better than the old model, but
they are very very expensive and are not well sealed - plenty of
information out there from people who have used them in dusty
environments and had them fill up with enough dust behind the front
element for it to become a problem for optical performance. I doubt
the Nikkor 200-500 will be worse.
The Tamron 150-600 also sucks dust in - fortunately the front
element
assembly is very easily removed for internal cleaning. Next time I
do
it, I'll post photos/instructions to DPreview or Youtube. There is
a
risk to stuff things up as shims are retained by friction only from
screws holding the element assembly to the barrel, and if they all
fell out at the same time and got mixed up on your bench, you'd have
a
problem. With mine, the combined shim thickness was identical in
each
of the 3 positions, but that might not be the case with other
samples
of the lens where the shims may be used for centering the front
elements rather than just setting infinity focus. It's a 10-15
minute
job, only special tool needed is a torx T2 screwdriver.
It's a very plastic lens, about what I'd have expected for the
price,
but feels well-enough made. If it was dropped though - I don't think
the result would be very good. I'll try out the Nikkor 200-500 when
it arrives at my local camera store.

The Tamron is extremely good up to 500mm, but at 500-600mm, then
practically achieving what it's optically capable of is a real
challenge. One issue is that at 600mm, with continuous AF-C, it
will
tend to make micro focus adjustments on a static subject, enough so
that accurate focus is a lottery unless you switch to AF-S. Nikon's
dumb placement of the AF mode switch on the D8*0 makes switching
between AF-S and AF-C a hassle with a large lens used hand-held, so
if
you're focus-tracking a subject, then want to zoom in when the
subject
stops moving, it's less than ideal. Manual focus at the 600mm end
is
an impossibility hand-held, the focus ring action is too highly
geared
to make any accurate adjustment overriding AF.


You can hand-hold the Sigma 150-600mm S lens, even if just for just a
short period of time? I envy you, really.


See
https://photographylife.com/shooting...50-600mm-sport


If I only I could hand-hold a lens like that. I just don't have steady
hands. Even a 70-200mm lens is a problem for me sometimes.

These are nice photos, thanks for posting the link.

 




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