Calumet files Chapter 7

In article 2014031421424079001-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
says...

On 2014-03-15 04:29:33 +0000, nospam said:

In article , PeterN
wrote:

BTW B&H gives superb personal service and advice.

b&h is an online seller, unless you happen to live near there.

that does not mean they are not a brick & mortar store that gives
excellent personal service and advice.

it means that the vast majority of their customers do not shop *in* the
store.

They are a global store, making sales to many nations. I shop at B&H
online, I receive their catalog several times a year, and I have yet to
walk through their front door.

it's also a hassle to buy there because it's so crowded.

There is a reason they are so crowded. On top of being a comprehensive
media oriented store, they are a destination for many. There are some
folks who travel to NYC just to go to B&H.

they are also the exception. most stores are not anything at all like
b&h, which is why most of them are gone.

They are also not just a camera store, so there is a wide
diversification among their customers.

Online they do the same as many other sellers, plug into the national
distribution system--most of the non-photographic goods that they list
are in the warehouses of Tech Data, Ingram, Merisel, and the like. They
also maintain their own warehouse containing their inventory of
photographic equipment. If you go into the store though you'll find
that it is almost all photo/video related--their brick and mortar store,
in other words, _is_ "just a camera store" if by "camera store" you mean
film, video, cinema, digital, chemistry and the whole rest of the gamut.

Most cities had similar, if smaller stores at one time, that handled the
professional needs of the local community--generally you could find what
you wanted at Brandon's, in Jactsonville FL for example, for a price.
The decline of film took away their bread-and-butter business and B&H
beats just about everybody except the scammers on price, so the local
pro-shops kind of went away.

I suspect that B&H's survival and success is a combination of having an
easily accessible central location in one of the largest metropolitan
areas in the world, maintaining a strong mail-order business throughout
their existence, and earily recognition of the Web as a sales venue.

On 3/14/2014 9:21 PM, Scott Schuckert wrote:
In article , George Kerby
wrote:

THAT is EXACTLY what people would do to me when I was a store manager for a
local mom n pop store here. Even though, Nikon, Olympus and Canon would give
us deals and quantity breaks in wholesale to us, folks would come in and
waste hours of my and my staff's time and then leave and buy from B&H or
some other mail order outfit back in the late 70's.

Me too, with three stores that survived into the mid-80's. We had a
used department, we had a public darkroom, we had rentals, we had a DIY
mounting and framing area, we had a gallery, we had contests, we had
free training, we had free friggin COFFEE - but at the end of the day,
people basically sucked it up and bought from the big New York stores.

Then of course they'd bring their new toy in for help or in-warranty
repairs; at that point, the pretense was off, so they'd whip out a copy
of Shutterbug before they buy so much as a filter.

(Gee, bitter much, 30 years after I went out of business...?)

The worst part was, the not-customers usually weren't really being mean
or selfish - for the most part, it never occurred to them I had rent
and salaries to meet: "Geez, Fred, it was seventeen damn dollars! I'm
always here for you, and you don't even give me a chance!?"

Then you'd get the blank look, and explain to them about profit and
loss: "Doesn't Nikon pay you to demonstrate their stuff?"


I patronize the local family owned hardware store. there prices are a
bit higher than Home Depot, but the service is great. I go in, get what
I need am an out in a few minutes. When I first moved into the
area,forty years ago, I did not know what size I needed of something.
The owner, gave me the part in two sizes, and said bring back the size
that doesn't fit, and pay me when you come back. Today, I can still but
one or two screws or bolts, and they will take my old one and figure out
the size I need.
I pay several hundred dollars a year more for our meds, because I think
it's important to keep the small pharmacy in business. And they too give
me service.
OTOH I know where you are coming from. A friend of mine owned a shoe
store, and people would come in for a fitting, then purchase the shoes
on the Internet.

camera stores, With one exception, our local stores match Internet
pricing, and give good service. I leave it to PAS to say which one doesn't.


--
PeterN

On 3/15/2014 12:29 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

for a store to survive, it needs to offer something you *can't* get
online.

It's called personal service.

most stores don't offer that, and of the ones that do, not that many
people are willing to pay for it.

Just to be clear, we are talking about camera stores, not big box stores.

no kidding.


With you, history has taught me to make absolutely certain we are
talking about the same thing.


If so, again you have demonstrated a total lack of knowledge. Tell us
the factual basis for your statement bout "most stores" not offering
service.

having shopped in them.

You have shoped in "most stores?"


if they offered service, they'd still be in business. very simple. most
didn't and they aren't.


you may be a decent programmer, but you are a lousy business analyst.

many of the camera stores were more interested in closing a sale than
helping a customer. often, the salesperson knew very little about what
it was they were pushing. often, they push the product with the highest
spiff and then push the filters, bags and other high markup crap.

i remember one time i went to a relatively major camera store and i
asked about a nikon slide copier for coolpix cameras. he told me there
was no such product from nikon. i said oh yes there most certainly was.
he insisted if such a product existed, he would know and since he
didn't know about it, there was no such product. i told him to look it
up in the catalog. he did and there it was, plain as day.

now tell me again why i need to bother with idiots like that.


Calument was not like that.

and people wonder why so many camera stores are closing.

heck, even staples is closing a bunch of stores because most of their
sales are now online.

things change. either the store adapts to the changes or they go away.


So! What's your point. Calument matched Internet prices and gave
reasonable service. There were other reasons, that I am not privy to,
but I saw signs of. i will just mention one, in NY, they were flakey
about running classes.


--
PeterN

On 3/15/2014 12:29 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

BTW B&H gives superb personal service and advice.

b&h is an online seller, unless you happen to live near there.

that does not mean they are not a brick & mortar store that gives
excellent personal service and advice.

it means that the vast majority of their customers do not shop *in* the
store.

it's also a hassle to buy there because it's so crowded.

Have you been there within the last ten years? If so, when?


they are also the exception. most stores are not anything at all like
b&h, which is why most of them are gone.



--
PeterN

On 3/15/2014 12:46 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article 2014031421424079001-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
says...

On 2014-03-15 04:29:33 +0000, nospam said:

In article , PeterN
wrote:

BTW B&H gives superb personal service and advice.

b&h is an online seller, unless you happen to live near there.

that does not mean they are not a brick & mortar store that gives
excellent personal service and advice.

it means that the vast majority of their customers do not shop *in* the
store.

They are a global store, making sales to many nations. I shop at B&H
online, I receive their catalog several times a year, and I have yet to
walk through their front door.

it's also a hassle to buy there because it's so crowded.

There is a reason they are so crowded. On top of being a comprehensive
media oriented store, they are a destination for many. There are some
folks who travel to NYC just to go to B&H.

they are also the exception. most stores are not anything at all like
b&h, which is why most of them are gone.

They are also not just a camera store, so there is a wide
diversification among their customers.

Online they do the same as many other sellers, plug into the national
distribution system--most of the non-photographic goods that they list
are in the warehouses of Tech Data, Ingram, Merisel, and the like. They
also maintain their own warehouse containing their inventory of
photographic equipment. If you go into the store though you'll find
that it is almost all photo/video related--their brick and mortar store,
in other words, _is_ "just a camera store" if by "camera store" you mean
film, video, cinema, digital, chemistry and the whole rest of the gamut.

Most cities had similar, if smaller stores at one time, that handled the
professional needs of the local community--generally you could find what
you wanted at Brandon's, in Jactsonville FL for example, for a price.
The decline of film took away their bread-and-butter business and B&H
beats just about everybody except the scammers on price, so the local
pro-shops kind of went away.

I suspect that B&H's survival and success is a combination of having an
easily accessible central location in one of the largest metropolitan
areas in the world, maintaining a strong mail-order business throughout
their existence, and earily recognition of the Web as a sales venue.

Their service and integrity are a major part of their success. And many
local stores do match their pricing.


--
PeterN

On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 12:31:07 -0400, Usenet Account
wrote:
: http://petapixel.com/2014/03/13/calu...s-zero-notice/

That's very sad. (I've been pretty busy and hadn't heard about it until now.)
Calumet has been very good to CIPNE ("Commercial/Industrial Photographers of
New England"), whereof I think I'm still a member. Come to think of it, CIPNE
isn't doing too well itself, I'm afraid. Anybody who could spare a few hours a
month could probably take over as President, with the heartfelt gratitude of
the membership.

But anybody who blames Calumet for screwing its employees should get a grip.
That's the way capitalism works, and is intended to work. That too is sad, but
it's the way it is.

Bob

On Wed, 19 Mar 2014 22:32:54 -0400, Robert Coe wrote:

On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 12:31:07 -0400, Usenet Account
wrote:
: http://petapixel.com/2014/03/13/calu...s-zero-notice/

That's very sad. (I've been pretty busy and hadn't heard about it until now.)
Calumet has been very good to CIPNE ("Commercial/Industrial Photographers of
New England"), whereof I think I'm still a member. Come to think of it, CIPNE
isn't doing too well itself, I'm afraid. Anybody who could spare a few hours a
month could probably take over as President, with the heartfelt gratitude of
the membership.

But anybody who blames Calumet for screwing its employees should get a grip.
That's the way capitalism works, and is intended to work.

Rubbish.

That too is sad, but it's the way it is.

But not the way it should be.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On 20/03/2014 4:50 AM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2014 22:32:54 -0400, Robert Coe wrote:

On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 12:31:07 -0400, Usenet Account
wrote:
: http://petapixel.com/2014/03/13/calu...s-zero-notice/

That's very sad. (I've been pretty busy and hadn't heard about it until now.)
Calumet has been very good to CIPNE ("Commercial/Industrial Photographers of
New England"), whereof I think I'm still a member. Come to think of it, CIPNE
isn't doing too well itself, I'm afraid. Anybody who could spare a few hours a
month could probably take over as President, with the heartfelt gratitude of
the membership.

But anybody who blames Calumet for screwing its employees should get a grip.
That's the way capitalism works, and is intended to work.

Rubbish.

That too is sad, but it's the way it is.

But not the way it should be.


Employees should be considered as secured creditors, and IMHO should
have a level of protection.

In an era where we see bank and wall street executives with gold and or
palladium parachutes, while the working class gets nothing? There has to
be some fairness. Don't give me that it's capitalism.. so sad too bad
nonsense.

--

In article , Usenet Account
wrote:

Employees should be considered as secured creditors, and IMHO should
have a level of protection.

They are, to some extent. I don't recall all they details, but wages
get a fairly high (but not the highest) level of protection. I've had
companies go out from under me more than once, and I've always gotten
at least some percentage of what was owed. Admittedly, it can take
years.

However, the outrage seems to be that employees weren't given any
warning, and essentially told not to show up to work tomorrow, or ever.
As I've previously said in this thread, that's entirely normal, and in
fact more notice than I'VE gotten in same cases.

On 3/20/2014 8:21 AM, Usenet Account wrote:
On 20/03/2014 4:50 AM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2014 22:32:54 -0400, Robert Coe wrote:

On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 12:31:07 -0400, Usenet Account

wrote:
:
http://petapixel.com/2014/03/13/calu...s-zero-notice/


That's very sad. (I've been pretty busy and hadn't heard about it
until now.)
Calumet has been very good to CIPNE ("Commercial/Industrial
Photographers of
New England"), whereof I think I'm still a member. Come to think of
it, CIPNE
isn't doing too well itself, I'm afraid. Anybody who could spare a
few hours a
month could probably take over as President, with the heartfelt
gratitude of
the membership.

But anybody who blames Calumet for screwing its employees should get
a grip.
That's the way capitalism works, and is intended to work.

Rubbish.

That too is sad, but it's the way it is.

But not the way it should be.


Employees should be considered as secured creditors, and IMHO should
have a level of protection.


They are to some extent. I am too lazy ot look the cut off up, butt in
New York, management has limited personal liability for unpaid wages.




--
PeterN