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#1
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Ken Rockwell is a loon
Στις 3/4/2014 5:15 μμ, ο/η Tony Cooper *γραψε:
On 3 Apr 2014 07:21:54 GMT, Sandman wrote: In article , RichA wrote: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53429238 Not Ken Rockwell: http://www.lowerantelope.com/aboutTheTour.php Tour rules clearly specifies what cameras are allowed. Stupid rules, perhaps, but should have been known to the person that booked the tour. That said, the rules are a bit muddy (even though it's clear they don't allow m4/3). They write "SLR camera, medium or large format", which could be interpreted as three choices - SLR, medium format or large format. But then they list the requirements and write "SLR camera (medium or large format)" which narrows it down to two options which in reality is just one option since there are no large format SLR's. So unless you have a medium format SLR, you're out of luck If you are going to comment on the wording, quote all the words: "The REQUIRED equipment are a SLR camera, medium or large format WITH a tripod. No guide is provided for the photographer, but a Canyon Monitor will check on you periodically for questions or assistant." That rule looks like something you'd write. The "are" should be "is" as a referent to the word "equipment", but it would not be understood by anyone with an understanding of English to mean three choices. It would be a clearer sentence with a comma after "format", but it's not totally unclear. As you point out, the rule allows for something that doesn't exist: a large format slr. It also says that a Canyon Monitor will check on you periodically for an assistant. That, too, sounds like something you'd write since it makes no sense. maybe they mean the size of the sensor?Since almost nobody uses film SLRs anymore, and there are no large format film SLRs, and medium format SLRs are costing an arm and a leg, maybe they mean APS sized sensors and full size sensors? |
#2
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Ken Rockwell is a loon
Tzortzakakis Dimitrios wrote:
and there are no large format film SLRs, Large format film SLRs are quite common, they may not have been made for many years, but it is still quite possible to pick up a working Graflex 4x5 SLR for not too much money. If you stick a digital back on one you can have a Graflex DSLR. Peter. -- |
#3
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Ken Rockwell is a loon
In article , Peter Irwin
wrote: and there are no large format film SLRs, Large format film SLRs are quite common, they may not have been made for many years, but it is still quite possible to pick up a working Graflex 4x5 SLR for not too much money. If you stick a digital back on one you can have a Graflex DSLR. they existed, but it was not very common (and large format itself is not common), plus a scanning back is very limiting since you're restricted to still life. |
#4
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Ken Rockwell is a loon
On 4/3/2014 11:31 AM, Tzortzakakis Dimitrios wrote:
Στις 3/4/2014 5:15 μμ, ο/η Tony Cooper *γραψε: On 3 Apr 2014 07:21:54 GMT, Sandman wrote: In article , RichA wrote: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53429238 Not Ken Rockwell: http://www.lowerantelope.com/aboutTheTour.php Tour rules clearly specifies what cameras are allowed. Stupid rules, perhaps, but should have been known to the person that booked the tour. That said, the rules are a bit muddy (even though it's clear they don't allow m4/3). They write "SLR camera, medium or large format", which could be interpreted as three choices - SLR, medium format or large format. But then they list the requirements and write "SLR camera (medium or large format)" which narrows it down to two options which in reality is just one option since there are no large format SLR's. So unless you have a medium format SLR, you're out of luck If you are going to comment on the wording, quote all the words: "The REQUIRED equipment are a SLR camera, medium or large format WITH a tripod. No guide is provided for the photographer, but a Canyon Monitor will check on you periodically for questions or assistant." That rule looks like something you'd write. The "are" should be "is" as a referent to the word "equipment", but it would not be understood by anyone with an understanding of English to mean three choices. It would be a clearer sentence with a comma after "format", but it's not totally unclear. As you point out, the rule allows for something that doesn't exist: a large format slr. It also says that a Canyon Monitor will check on you periodically for an assistant. That, too, sounds like something you'd write since it makes no sense. maybe they mean the size of the sensor?Since almost nobody uses film SLRs anymore, and there are no large format film SLRs, and medium format SLRs are costing an arm and a leg, maybe they mean APS sized sensors and full size sensors? How does a Hasellblad fit in? Hasselblad has announced the H3DII-50, with a new Kodak sensor of 50MP, same 49.1x36.8mm size as the 39MP and 22MP sensor, but now with 6 micron pixel -- Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD) Extraneous "not." in Reply To. |
#5
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Ken Rockwell is a loon
On 2014-04-03 15:38:43 +0000, Whisky-dave said:
On Thursday, 3 April 2014 16:31:00 UTC+1, Tzortzakakis Dimitrios wrote: Στις 3/4/2014 5:15 μμ, ο/η Tony Cooper *γραψε: On 3 Apr 2014 07:21:54 GMT, Sandman wrote: In article , RichA wrote: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53429238 Not Ken Rockwell: http://www.lowerantelope.com/aboutTheTour.php Tour rules clearly specifies what cameras are allowed. Stupid rules, perhaps, but should have been known to the person that booked the tour. That said, the rules are a bit muddy (even though it's clear they don't allow m4/3). They write "SLR camera, medium or large format", which could be interpreted as three choices - SLR, medium format or large format. But then they list the requirements and write "SLR camera (medium or large format)" which narrows it down to two options which in reality is just one option since there are no large format SLR's. So unless you have a medium format SLR, you're out of luck If you are going to comment on the wording, quote all the words: "The REQUIRED equipment are a SLR camera, medium or large format WITH a tripod. No guide is provided for the photographer, but a Canyon Monitor will check on you periodically for questions or assistant." That rule looks like something you'd write. The "are" should be "is" as a referent to the word "equipment", but it would not be understood by anyone with an understanding of English to mean three choices. It would be a clearer sentence with a comma after "format", but it's not totally unclear. As you point out, the rule allows for something that doesn't exist: a large format slr. It also says that a Canyon Monitor will check on you periodically for an assistant. That, too, sounds like something you'd write since it makes no sense. maybe they mean the size of the sensor?Since almost nobody uses film SLRs anymore, and there are no large format film SLRs, and medium format SLRs are costing an arm and a leg, maybe they mean APS sized sensors and full size sensors? Why would the size of your sensor matter to them, the tour operators, unless of course it was a money making scam, the bigger your sensor the more expensive the tour. Do you think that people with compact camera wouldn't be allowed on this tour, I'm not sure it does read that way. I find it crazy that any photo tour operator would require a photographer to have a certain type of camera. What about rangefinder shooters, or a person with a 35mm TLR? No Xpans allowed? It's crazy. |
#6
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Ken Rockwell is a loon
On 2014-04-05 00:44:44 +0000, Oregonian Haruspex
said: On 2014-04-03 15:38:43 +0000, Whisky-dave said: On Thursday, 3 April 2014 16:31:00 UTC+1, Tzortzakakis Dimitrios wrote: Στις 3/4/2014 5:15 μμ, ο/η Tony Cooper *γραψε: On 3 Apr 2014 07:21:54 GMT, Sandman wrote: In article , RichA wrote: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53429238 Not Ken Rockwell: http://www.lowerantelope.com/aboutTheTour.php Tour rules clearly specifies what cameras are allowed. Stupid rules, perhaps, but should have been known to the person that booked the tour. That said, the rules are a bit muddy (even though it's clear they don't allow m4/3). They write "SLR camera, medium or large format", which could be interpreted as three choices - SLR, medium format or large format. But then they list the requirements and write "SLR camera (medium or large format)" which narrows it down to two options which in reality is just one option since there are no large format SLR's. So unless you have a medium format SLR, you're out of luck If you are going to comment on the wording, quote all the words: "The REQUIRED equipment are a SLR camera, medium or large format WITH a tripod. No guide is provided for the photographer, but a Canyon Monitor will check on you periodically for questions or assistant." That rule looks like something you'd write. The "are" should be "is" as a referent to the word "equipment", but it would not be understood by anyone with an understanding of English to mean three choices. It would be a clearer sentence with a comma after "format", but it's not totally unclear. As you point out, the rule allows for something that doesn't exist: a large format slr. It also says that a Canyon Monitor will check on you periodically for an assistant. That, too, sounds like something you'd write since it makes no sense. maybe they mean the size of the sensor?Since almost nobody uses film SLRs anymore, and there are no large format film SLRs, and medium format SLRs are costing an arm and a leg, maybe they mean APS sized sensors and full size sensors? Why would the size of your sensor matter to them, the tour operators, unless of course it was a money making scam, the bigger your sensor the more expensive the tour. Do you think that people with compact camera wouldn't be allowed on this tour, I'm not sure it does read that way. I find it crazy that any photo tour operator would require a photographer to have a certain type of camera. What about rangefinder shooters, or a person with a 35mm TLR? No Xpans allowed? It's crazy. The standard slot canyon tours are run by the Navaho Tribal Authority, require a Navaho guide and are crowded with large tour bus groups and are not given any real photo opportunities. Apparently this bizarre & restrictive rule was written by individuals in the Tribal & Park authorities ignorant of modern camera capabilities in order to control numbers of *serious* photographers on the photo enthusiast tours of the slot canyons vs the standard tours. They figured that by creating what they thought was a specification for *serious* cameras there would not be the typical crowded P&S, and phone camera mob filling the slot canyons with snap happy tourists. The idea was to create an environment for shooting images without crowds filling the canyon floor making it more attractive for the *serious photo enthusiast*. The recommendation for a tripod is for the ability to capture low light, long exposure images, as that is the typical shooting environment in the slot canyons. The tripod is only required for the *photo tours* which have fewer numbers of *serious photographer* participants, and which are not the typical crowded tourist tour. In the slot canyons the light conditions are low light-high contrast, so the best results are obtained with long exposures making a tripod a vital accessory. High ISO alone is not going to solve the problem. HDR would help, but even there a tripod would be a big help. All needed to get images such as these: http://www.amazingplacesonearth.com/...e-Canyon-3.jpg http://www.vistanature.com/wp-conten...ope-Canyon.jpg http://neshtoto.com/wp-content/uploa...ope-Canyon.jpg The typical tourist with a P&S or a phone camera shooting on auto, or scene mode is not going to be very happy with the results they get. they end up looking like this: http://shmamaland.files.wordpress.co...1/nik_6105.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ope_Canyon.jpg I don't believe they had any idea of what they were doing other than making a sincere attempt to make a less crowded *photo tour* for the *serious photo enthusiast*. They just didn't know how to identify that photographer other than not allowing camera users of what didn't look like *serious* equipment to them. -- Regards, Savageduck |
#7
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Ken Rockwell is a loon
In article , Oregonian Haruspex
wrote: I find it crazy that any photo tour operator would require a photographer to have a certain type of camera. What about rangefinder shooters, or a person with a 35mm TLR? No Xpans allowed? It's crazy. any photo tour operator that has restrictions on camera gear especially crazy restrictions such as what was described is not worth bothering with at all. what matters is the photographer, not the camera. |
#8
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Ken Rockwell is a loon
In article 2014040418460855379-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote: The standard slot canyon tours are run by the Navaho Tribal Authority, require a Navaho guide and are crowded with large tour bus groups and are not given any real photo opportunities. Apparently this bizarre & restrictive rule was written by individuals in the Tribal & Park authorities ignorant of modern camera capabilities in order to control numbers of *serious* photographers on the photo enthusiast tours of the slot canyons vs the standard tours. They figured that by creating what they thought was a specification for *serious* cameras there would not be the typical crowded P&S, and phone camera mob filling the slot canyons with snap happy tourists. The idea was to create an environment for shooting images without crowds filling the canyon floor making it more attractive for the *serious photo enthusiast*. the solution would be to limit the number of people who can sign up for the tour, regardless of camera. |
#9
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Ken Rockwell is a loon
On 2014-04-05 02:34:46 +0000, nospam said:
In article , Oregonian Haruspex wrote: I find it crazy that any photo tour operator would require a photographer to have a certain type of camera. What about rangefinder shooters, or a person with a 35mm TLR? No Xpans allowed? It's crazy. any photo tour operator that has restrictions on camera gear especially crazy restrictions such as what was described is not worth bothering with at all. what matters is the photographer, not the camera. Have a talk with the Navaho Tribal Authority which operates all of the Antelope Canyon, slot canyon tours, mass market bus tours & photo tours. -- Regards, Savageduck |
#10
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Ken Rockwell is a loon
On 2014-04-05 02:34:48 +0000, nospam said:
In article 2014040418460855379-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, Savageduck wrote: The standard slot canyon tours are run by the Navaho Tribal Authority, require a Navaho guide and are crowded with large tour bus groups and are not given any real photo opportunities. Apparently this bizarre & restrictive rule was written by individuals in the Tribal & Park authorities ignorant of modern camera capabilities in order to control numbers of *serious* photographers on the photo enthusiast tours of the slot canyons vs the standard tours. They figured that by creating what they thought was a specification for *serious* cameras there would not be the typical crowded P&S, and phone camera mob filling the slot canyons with snap happy tourists. The idea was to create an environment for shooting images without crowds filling the canyon floor making it more attractive for the *serious photo enthusiast*. the solution would be to limit the number of people who can sign up for the tour, regardless of camera. Agreed. However, somebody in their chain of command must have led Adams through there, and figures that a serious photographer is going to be lugging an 8x10 or a Hassy. -- Regards, Savageduck |
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