Sony closes 2/3 of its stores in the U.S.

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

I spent several years working in a senior position in the maintenance
department of a large combined pulp, paper and sawmill. I came to know
a great deal about what is and is not generally regarded as
maintenence. Fixing breakdowns is commonly regarded as maintenance.

maybe in that industry it is, but that's not the case everywhere and
certainly not for computers.

In fact, some organisations, to their shame, practice what is known as
'breakdown maintenance' (you only maintain it when it breaks down).

a lot of people do that and they're morons.

however, it does confirm that there is a difference between the two.

On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 15:22:06 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

I spent several years working in a senior position in the maintenance
department of a large combined pulp, paper and sawmill. I came to know
a great deal about what is and is not generally regarded as
maintenence. Fixing breakdowns is commonly regarded as maintenance.

maybe in that industry it is, but that's not the case everywhere and
certainly not for computers.

There is no general distinction in ordinary usage unless you make it
clear that that you are distinguishing one from the other. You have
certainly ben doing that but in the early stage of this discussion
nobody (including yourself) was making a distinction.

In fact, some organisations, to their shame, practice what is known as
'breakdown maintenance' (you only maintain it when it breaks down).

a lot of people do that and they're morons.

however, it does confirm that there is a difference between the two.

Not in the eyes of the 'morons'.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

I spent several years working in a senior position in the maintenance
department of a large combined pulp, paper and sawmill. I came to know
a great deal about what is and is not generally regarded as
maintenence. Fixing breakdowns is commonly regarded as maintenance.

maybe in that industry it is, but that's not the case everywhere and
certainly not for computers.

There is no general distinction in ordinary usage unless you make it
clear that that you are distinguishing one from the other.

nonsense. there is absolutely a distinction and there is no need to
explicitly spell it out. that's why there are different words for them.

there may be an exception or two, but that is without question, not the
norm.

You have
certainly ben doing that but in the early stage of this discussion
nobody (including yourself) was making a distinction.

there's no need to explicitly make a distinction when it's obvious
there is a distinction.

i have *always* made a distinction that they are not the same, because
they are not the same.

In fact, some organisations, to their shame, practice what is known as
'breakdown maintenance' (you only maintain it when it breaks down).

a lot of people do that and they're morons.

however, it does confirm that there is a difference between the two.

Not in the eyes of the 'morons'.

that's why they're morons. they're too stupid to know any better.

On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 15:22:06 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

I spent several years working in a senior position in the maintenance
department of a large combined pulp, paper and sawmill. I came to know
a great deal about what is and is not generally regarded as
maintenence. Fixing breakdowns is commonly regarded as maintenance.

maybe in that industry it is, but that's not the case everywhere and
certainly not for computers.

In fact, some organisations, to their shame, practice what is known as
'breakdown maintenance' (you only maintain it when it breaks down).

a lot of people do that and they're morons.

however, it does confirm that there is a difference between the two.

I've just done what I should have done a long time ago: I looked up
'maintenence" in the New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary. The NSOED
devotes a great deal of time to the various legal and litigatory
meanings of the word but gives as one meaning:

"The action of keeping something in working order, in repair etc".

You are welcome to maintain that 'maintenance' does not encompass
'repair' but the NSOED does not agree with you.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

I spent several years working in a senior position in the maintenance
department of a large combined pulp, paper and sawmill. I came to know
a great deal about what is and is not generally regarded as
maintenence. Fixing breakdowns is commonly regarded as maintenance.

maybe in that industry it is, but that's not the case everywhere and
certainly not for computers.

In fact, some organisations, to their shame, practice what is known as
'breakdown maintenance' (you only maintain it when it breaks down).

a lot of people do that and they're morons.

however, it does confirm that there is a difference between the two.

I've just done what I should have done a long time ago: I looked up
'maintenence" in the New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary. The NSOED
devotes a great deal of time to the various legal and litigatory
meanings of the word but gives as one meaning:

"The action of keeping something in working order, in repair etc".

You are welcome to maintain that 'maintenance' does not encompass
'repair' but the NSOED does not agree with you.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/maintenance

Definition of MAINTENANCE
1:* the act of maintaining :* the state of being maintained :* support
2:* something that maintains
3:* the upkeep of property or equipment
4:* an officious or unlawful intermeddling in a legal suit by
assisting either party with means to carry it on

Examples of MAINTENANCE
1. The building has suffered from years of poor maintenance.
2. the costs of routine car maintenance
3. maintenance of law and order
4. money for the family's maintenance

the word 'repair' is not mentioned.

In article , Eric Stevens wrote:

however, it does confirm that there is a difference between the
two.

I've just done what I should have done a long time ago: I looked up
'maintenence" in the New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary. The
NSOED devotes a great deal of time to the various legal and
litigatory meanings of the word but gives as one meaning:

"The action of keeping something in working order, in repair etc".

You are welcome to maintain that 'maintenance' does not encompass
'repair' but the NSOED does not agree with you.

From the Actual Oxford Dictionary of English:

maintenance
noun [ mass noun ]
1 the process of preserving a condition or situation or the state of being
preserved

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/de...sh/maintenance

The Oxford Dictionary of English doesn't agree with you.


--
Sandman[.net]

In article , Tony Cooper wrote:

This is ridiculous.

Indeed.

First, I'll say that I agree completely that maintenance and repair
specifically when it comes to computers and software - as has been
presented in this thread - are two separate and distinct areas.
Computers and software require a completely different type of repair
and maintenance than do buildings, automobiles, and other things.

Huh, interesting.

In other words - just to make it crystal-clear - I support nospam's
contention that these are two different areas and the repair aspect
is a non-starter the way the thread has progressed.

But, the ridiculous part is the above breakdown that nospam is using
to support his position.

Repairs and maintenance go hand-in-hand with buildings and
automobiles.

BUt are still two seperate things. Checking your car in for maintenance
does not mean anything get repaired.

Building maintenance - whether a commercial or residential building -
requires repair as *part* of the maintenance.

Uh, no. It may require repairs, but those repairs are not part of the
maintenance of the building. You're either maintaining the building or
repairing it. You can't do both at the same time.

I.e. keeping snow off the roof, cleaning storm drains, cleaning off moss or
any other maintenance task are all about preventing the need for repairs.
They are things you do that if you don't may lead to something needing to
be repaired. Snow on the roof may make it cave in, dirty drain pipes may
make water drip where it should not, casuing all kinds of damage and so on.

A building is maintained by keeping all the parts in good condition and
repairing or replacing those parts as needed.

The first part of the above sentence was correct, but "repairing" is only
done when the "maintenance" part has failed.

Replacing can be a part of maintenance. I.e. the storm pipes get clogged up
since they're too small, so replacing them is part of maintenance - to
prevent damage. Same with break fluids or windscreen wipers on a car.
Replacing disposable goods are part of maintenance, repairing them is not.

Replacing worn washers in a sink faucet is both maintenance and repair.

No, replacing a broken item does not onstitute repairing a broken item.
Repair means you take something that is broken (the washers) and mend them
into working condition again. Merely changing the tires of your car when
the tread is worn does not mean you've repaired the tires or the car.

In an automobile, a worn but not broken fan belt replacement is both
maintenance and repair.

Again, no.

The examples, if nospam had even a rudimentary knowledge of what
dictionaries are for, are ways the word can be used.

Ironic statement #437

The other thing that I think is ridiculous is this position that
repairs are not to be brought into this. This is a thread in a
newsgroup, for Christ's Sake. There are no rules of what can or
can't be brought into a discussion. A thread is an ongoing
discussion in which any participant can add or address any point
they choose to add or address.

But that's not what happened. Someone called a Sony laptop
"unmaintainable", nospam said that Macs are vry easy to maintain and then
someone mention iFixit - who doesn't maintain Macs, but repair them.

If that person had said "Yeah I know, but repairs is also important bla
bla" then there would be no problem. But no, lots of you guys had to join
there and make ridiculous claims that "maintenance" can include "repairs",
which is blatantly false. The misinformation spread by Eric and sid
prompted this dictionary war, not the original discussion.

And, just as a somewhat pertinent point, the Merriam-Webster Online
Dictionary is an abbreviated dictionary that is not comparable to
the New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary.

And the actual Oxford English Dictionary does not agree with Eric's claim.
I can't search the shorter version online to verify his claim, but I find
it rather unlikely that the short version would have a different definition
than the real version.




--
Sandman[.net]

On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 23:12:25 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

I spent several years working in a senior position in the maintenance
department of a large combined pulp, paper and sawmill. I came to know
a great deal about what is and is not generally regarded as
maintenence. Fixing breakdowns is commonly regarded as maintenance.

maybe in that industry it is, but that's not the case everywhere and
certainly not for computers.

In fact, some organisations, to their shame, practice what is known as
'breakdown maintenance' (you only maintain it when it breaks down).

a lot of people do that and they're morons.

however, it does confirm that there is a difference between the two.

I've just done what I should have done a long time ago: I looked up
'maintenence" in the New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary. The NSOED
devotes a great deal of time to the various legal and litigatory
meanings of the word but gives as one meaning:

"The action of keeping something in working order, in repair etc".

You are welcome to maintain that 'maintenance' does not encompass
'repair' but the NSOED does not agree with you.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/maintenance

Definition of MAINTENANCE
1:* the act of maintaining :* the state of being maintained :* support
2:* something that maintains
3:* the upkeep of property or equipment
4:* an officious or unlawful intermeddling in a legal suit by
assisting either party with means to carry it on

Examples of MAINTENANCE
1. The building has suffered from years of poor maintenance.
2. the costs of routine car maintenance
3. maintenance of law and order
4. money for the family's maintenance

the word 'repair' is not mentioned.


I would back the NSOED against the omissions of Miriam Webster.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainten...and_operations

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/maintenance

http://www.dbh.govt.nz/maintenance-and-repairs

http://www.aa.co.nz/cars/maintenance/

http://www.slingshot.co.nz/products/...d-maintenance/

These and many more sites discuss repair in the context of
maintenance.

--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

nospam wrote:
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

I spent several years working in a senior position in the maintenance
department of a large combined pulp, paper and sawmill. I came to know
a great deal about what is and is not generally regarded as
maintenence. Fixing breakdowns is commonly regarded as maintenance.

maybe in that industry it is, but that's not the case everywhere and
certainly not for computers.

Not all maintenance is "repair" work... but all repair work is maintenance.

Regardless of the industry too.

In fact, some organisations, to their shame, practice what is known as
'breakdown maintenance' (you only maintain it when it breaks down).

a lot of people do that and they're morons.

however, it does confirm that there is a difference between the two.

It confirms that the words are not synonyms, which means they
won't likely show each up in a dictionary definition of the
other.

I've just done what I should have done a long time ago: I looked up
'maintenence" in the New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary. The NSOED
devotes a great deal of time to the various legal and litigatory
meanings of the word but gives as one meaning:

"The action of keeping something in working order, in repair etc".

You are welcome to maintain that 'maintenance' does not encompass
'repair' but the NSOED does not agree with you.

Too logical for nospam. So now we have a typical illogical analysis:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/maintenance

Definition of MAINTENANCE
1:* the act of maintaining :* the state of being maintained :* support
2:* something that maintains
3:* the upkeep of property or equipment
4:* an officious or unlawful intermeddling in a legal suit by
assisting either party with means to carry it on

Examples of MAINTENANCE
1. The building has suffered from years of poor maintenance.
2. the costs of routine car maintenance
3. maintenance of law and order
4. money for the family's maintenance

the word 'repair' is not mentioned.

But if one were to go where you belong, to the Learner's Dictionary:

http://www.learnersdictionary.com/de...on/maintenance

You'll find this very clear statement:

"1: the act of maintaining something or someone:
such as
a: the act of keeping property or equipment
in good condition by making repairs,
correcting problems, etc.
b: ...
c: ...
2: ..."

"Maintenance" is a word with a rather broad scope, which includes anything
that might be defined as "repair", while repair has a fairly narrow scope.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

In article , Eric Stevens wrote:

of poor maintenance. 2. the costs of routine car maintenance 3.
maintenance of law and order 4. money for the family's
maintenance

the word 'repair' is not mentioned.

I would back the NSOED against the omissions of Miriam Webster.

Oxford English Dictionary does not mention repairs in its definition of the
word "maintenance"

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainten...and_operations

That's a wikipedia entry on the three concepts of maintenance, repairs and
operation. Are you now going to claim that "operation" also means repairs?
That would be fun.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/maintenance

Funny how you posted a link to the definition of "maintenance" that
disagrees with your claim that it also encompasses "repairs". "Repairs"
isn't mentioned even once in any of those definitions

http://www.dbh.govt.nz/maintenance-and-repairs

You seem to have googled for "maintenance" and "repairs" and are just
pasting the links you got as a result. This page does not define the word
"maintenance" to also include "repairs".

http://www.aa.co.nz/cars/maintenance/

"Service *OR* repair your car", emphasize mine. And if you click it, you
come he

http://www.aa.co.nz/cars/maintenance/car-servicing-and-maintenance-checklist/

"Simple vehicle maintenance can save you the frustration and expense of
costly repairs"

So, yet again you found a link to a page that disagrees with your
definition.

http://www.slingshot.co.nz/products/...d-maintenance/

That's a page for one of Slingshot's support packages, called "Wiring and
Maintenance". Customers of that package will also get free repairs to the
items concerning their service. Slingshot's usage of the word "maintenance"
is not a definition.

These and many more sites discuss repair in the context of
maintenance.

No, they all discuss repairs as something you have to do when maintenance
fails.

Each and every single link you posted failed to substantiate your claim.
But it was refreshing to see you actually *try* to substantiate your claim.
It was also entertaining to see you post links to broadband providers and
AA for the definition of an English word.




--
Sandman[.net]