Kodak to stop making digital cameras

On 16/02/2012 15:25, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
John writes:

On 2012-02-14 11:24:40 -0800, David said:
writes:

In Apple's case advertising is only part of the story. The level of
customer satisfaction and word of mouth evangelizing has led to repeat
sales and some switchers. Then came the iPod and advertising aimed at
frustrated average PC users, not PC power users or IT
specialists. That laid the groundwork for the iPhone, which the Apple
community had been demanding from the release of the iPod.
The iPod& iPhone led many PC users to Macs, both desktops and
laptops. Now there are the MacBook Air and the iPad which have
developed their own particular niche. By sticking to their particular
design philosophy and product mystique the team at Cupertino has
achieved its current success.

That one I find fascinating. My Apple-using friends seem to have
*endless* trouble with their computers, far more than my other friends.
I have no idea where this reputation for "quality" comes from!

Heh. Apple haters will always find anecdotes to support their pet theories.

David- The quality is there, has almost always been there.

So you claim. But my friends still make multiple trips a year to have
things fixed.

Are they particularly accident prone or do you sabotage their kit?

Have you ever used a Macintosh for more than a couple of days?

I tried to use one onec, back when I needed to make some graphic slides
(overhead projector slides) for a presentation back when it was very new
(1984 or 1985). I found it so hard to use (and so lacking in
documentation) that it was much easier to use a command-line graphics
tool (that I'd also never used before) to get the images I wanted, and
have never by choice used one again.

Seems you have rather strange selective memories of those times.

A Macintosh could run rings around the IBM PC for graphics and artwork
design back in those days unless you had an incredibly expensive NEC7220
dedicated graphics card fitted like the Sigma Dazzler with a
correspondingly expensive monitor and editing software to go with it.

VGA graphics didn't appear until 1987 though you could get hercules
monochrome graphics cards in around '84 for the PC.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

rOn Thu, 16 Feb 2012 20:11:55 +0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 16/02/2012 15:25, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
John writes:

On 2012-02-14 11:24:40 -0800, David said:
writes:

In Apple's case advertising is only part of the story. The level of
customer satisfaction and word of mouth evangelizing has led to repeat
sales and some switchers. Then came the iPod and advertising aimed at
frustrated average PC users, not PC power users or IT
specialists. That laid the groundwork for the iPhone, which the Apple
community had been demanding from the release of the iPod.
The iPod& iPhone led many PC users to Macs, both desktops and
laptops. Now there are the MacBook Air and the iPad which have
developed their own particular niche. By sticking to their particular
design philosophy and product mystique the team at Cupertino has
achieved its current success.

That one I find fascinating. My Apple-using friends seem to have
*endless* trouble with their computers, far more than my other friends.
I have no idea where this reputation for "quality" comes from!

Heh. Apple haters will always find anecdotes to support their pet theories.

David- The quality is there, has almost always been there.

So you claim. But my friends still make multiple trips a year to have
things fixed.

Are they particularly accident prone or do you sabotage their kit?

Have you ever used a Macintosh for more than a couple of days?

I tried to use one onec, back when I needed to make some graphic slides
(overhead projector slides) for a presentation back when it was very new
(1984 or 1985). I found it so hard to use (and so lacking in
documentation) that it was much easier to use a command-line graphics
tool (that I'd also never used before) to get the images I wanted, and
have never by choice used one again.

Seems you have rather strange selective memories of those times.

A Macintosh could run rings around the IBM PC for graphics and artwork
design back in those days unless you had an incredibly expensive NEC7220
dedicated graphics card fitted like the Sigma Dazzler with a
correspondingly expensive monitor and editing software to go with it.

VGA graphics didn't appear until 1987 though you could get hercules
monochrome graphics cards in around '84 for the PC.

Some 10 years before that you could the Cromemco 'Dazzler' cards
(plural) for the S100 bus and CP/M

Regards,

Eric Stevens

Martin Brown writes:

On 16/02/2012 15:25, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
John writes:

On 2012-02-14 11:24:40 -0800, David said:
writes:

In Apple's case advertising is only part of the story. The level of
customer satisfaction and word of mouth evangelizing has led to repeat
sales and some switchers. Then came the iPod and advertising aimed at
frustrated average PC users, not PC power users or IT
specialists. That laid the groundwork for the iPhone, which the Apple
community had been demanding from the release of the iPod.
The iPod& iPhone led many PC users to Macs, both desktops and
laptops. Now there are the MacBook Air and the iPad which have
developed their own particular niche. By sticking to their particular
design philosophy and product mystique the team at Cupertino has
achieved its current success.

That one I find fascinating. My Apple-using friends seem to have
*endless* trouble with their computers, far more than my other friends.
I have no idea where this reputation for "quality" comes from!

Heh. Apple haters will always find anecdotes to support their pet theories.

David- The quality is there, has almost always been there.

So you claim. But my friends still make multiple trips a year to have
things fixed.

Are they particularly accident prone or do you sabotage their kit?

Possiblyh accident-prone. Mostly I've never touched any computer they
own or on their network, so I'm reasonably sure I'm not doing it.

Have you ever used a Macintosh for more than a couple of days?

I tried to use one onec, back when I needed to make some graphic slides
(overhead projector slides) for a presentation back when it was very new
(1984 or 1985). I found it so hard to use (and so lacking in
documentation) that it was much easier to use a command-line graphics
tool (that I'd also never used before) to get the images I wanted, and
have never by choice used one again.

Seems you have rather strange selective memories of those times.

A Macintosh could run rings around the IBM PC for graphics and artwork
design back in those days unless you had an incredibly expensive
NEC7220 dedicated graphics card fitted like the Sigma Dazzler with a
correspondingly expensive monitor and editing software to go with it.

VGA graphics didn't appear until 1987 though you could get hercules
monochrome graphics cards in around '84 for the PC.

Why are you inserting an IBM PC into the story? I didn't touch a PC for
at least a year after that, and that was in a different state; has
nothing to do with the story.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, ; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info

On 16/02/2012 22:23, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
Martin writes:

On 16/02/2012 15:25, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
John writes:

On 2012-02-14 11:24:40 -0800, David said:
writes:


Have you ever used a Macintosh for more than a couple of days?

I tried to use one onec, back when I needed to make some graphic slides
(overhead projector slides) for a presentation back when it was very new
(1984 or 1985). I found it so hard to use (and so lacking in
documentation) that it was much easier to use a command-line graphics
tool (that I'd also never used before) to get the images I wanted, and
have never by choice used one again.

Seems you have rather strange selective memories of those times.

A Macintosh could run rings around the IBM PC for graphics and artwork
design back in those days unless you had an incredibly expensive
NEC7220 dedicated graphics card fitted like the Sigma Dazzler with a
correspondingly expensive monitor and editing software to go with it.

VGA graphics didn't appear until 1987 though you could get hercules
monochrome graphics cards in around '84 for the PC.

Why are you inserting an IBM PC into the story? I didn't touch a PC for
at least a year after that, and that was in a different state; has
nothing to do with the story.

So what kit and software were you comparing the Macintosh against then?

Around that time (about 5 years earlier) we had tracker ball operated
ARGS raster graphics 512x512 with a whopping 256 colour LUT available on
the VAX 11/780's and monochrome 1024x1024 256 greyscale on a ND500.

I can't off hand think of any command line graphics tool that could make
OHP slides in that era. HP7475 would plot them if you had the software,
but most big plotters were not flatbeds and used roll paper.

Back then you pretty much had to make the orginals as oversize line
artwork and then take them to a bench sized camera to make either an OHP
slide, display quality print or an offset litho printing plate.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Martin Brown writes:

On 16/02/2012 22:23, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
Martin writes:

On 16/02/2012 15:25, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
John writes:

On 2012-02-14 11:24:40 -0800, David said:
writes:


Have you ever used a Macintosh for more than a couple of days?

I tried to use one onec, back when I needed to make some graphic slides
(overhead projector slides) for a presentation back when it was very new
(1984 or 1985). I found it so hard to use (and so lacking in
documentation) that it was much easier to use a command-line graphics
tool (that I'd also never used before) to get the images I wanted, and
have never by choice used one again.

Seems you have rather strange selective memories of those times.

A Macintosh could run rings around the IBM PC for graphics and artwork
design back in those days unless you had an incredibly expensive
NEC7220 dedicated graphics card fitted like the Sigma Dazzler with a
correspondingly expensive monitor and editing software to go with it.

VGA graphics didn't appear until 1987 though you could get hercules
monochrome graphics cards in around '84 for the PC.

Why are you inserting an IBM PC into the story? I didn't touch a PC for
at least a year after that, and that was in a different state; has
nothing to do with the story.

So what kit and software were you comparing the Macintosh against then?

DECSYSTEM-20 mainframe with a GIGI graphics terminal. I don't remember
the name of the software package I used; that was the first and last
time I used the software.

(I photographed the images off the GIGI screen with Polachrome film,
just to insert a near-on-topic reference.)

(And then learned one of the great lessons of presentations the hard
way. I had previewed my slides at home and found them good, but when I
did the actual presentation, the Polachrome slides were nearly
invisible. Turns out they were a lot denser than the regular slides,
which I hadn't noticed in the well-darkened room I previewed in, but
which was totally obvious in the half-lit presentation room.)

Around that time (about 5 years earlier) we had tracker ball operated
ARGS raster graphics 512x512 with a whopping 256 colour LUT available
on the VAX 11/780's and monochrome 1024x1024 256 greyscale on a ND500.

I used monochrome storage-tube vector graphics earlier just a little
bit, around 1972, but nothing with color.

I can't off hand think of any command line graphics tool that could
make OHP slides in that era. HP7475 would plot them if you had the
software, but most big plotters were not flatbeds and used roll paper.

Yes, I switched from an initial plan of OHP to 35mm slides at that
point.

Back then you pretty much had to make the orginals as oversize line
artwork and then take them to a bench sized camera to make either an
OHP slide, display quality print or an offset litho printing plate.

Yep.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, ; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info

In article , David Dyer-Bennet
wrote:

Why are you inserting an IBM PC into the story? I didn't touch a PC for
at least a year after that, and that was in a different state; has
nothing to do with the story.

So what kit and software were you comparing the Macintosh against then?

DECSYSTEM-20 mainframe with a GIGI graphics terminal. I don't remember
the name of the software package I used; that was the first and last
time I used the software.

what a ludicrous comparison.

On 2012-02-17 14:38 , nospam wrote:
In , David Dyer-Bennet
wrote:

Why are you inserting an IBM PC into the story? I didn't touch a PC for
at least a year after that, and that was in a different state; has
nothing to do with the story.

So what kit and software were you comparing the Macintosh against then?

DECSYSTEM-20 mainframe with a GIGI graphics terminal. I don't remember
the name of the software package I used; that was the first and last
time I used the software.

what a ludicrous comparison.

That's an insult to ludicrous comparisons.

--
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty."
Douglas Adams - (Could have been a GPS engineer).

nospam writes:

In article , David Dyer-Bennet
wrote:

Why are you inserting an IBM PC into the story? I didn't touch a PC for
at least a year after that, and that was in a different state; has
nothing to do with the story.

So what kit and software were you comparing the Macintosh against then?

DECSYSTEM-20 mainframe with a GIGI graphics terminal. I don't remember
the name of the software package I used; that was the first and last
time I used the software.

what a ludicrous comparison.

Yes, isn't it? And yet I found it much easier to produce the images I
needed that way.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, ; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info

In article , David Dyer-Bennet
wrote:

Why are you inserting an IBM PC into the story? I didn't touch a PC for
at least a year after that, and that was in a different state; has
nothing to do with the story.

So what kit and software were you comparing the Macintosh against then?

DECSYSTEM-20 mainframe with a GIGI graphics terminal. I don't remember
the name of the software package I used; that was the first and last
time I used the software.

what a ludicrous comparison.

Yes, isn't it? And yet I found it much easier to produce the images I
needed that way.

only because you couldn't be bothered to take a couple of minutes to
learn a much easier way.

nospam writes:

In article , David Dyer-Bennet
wrote:

Why are you inserting an IBM PC into the story? I didn't touch a PC for
at least a year after that, and that was in a different state; has
nothing to do with the story.

So what kit and software were you comparing the Macintosh against then?

DECSYSTEM-20 mainframe with a GIGI graphics terminal. I don't remember
the name of the software package I used; that was the first and last
time I used the software.

what a ludicrous comparison.

Yes, isn't it? And yet I found it much easier to produce the images I
needed that way.

only because you couldn't be bothered to take a couple of minutes to
learn a much easier way.

I wasted more time failing to get it done on the Mac than it took to do
it the other way, as I recall.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, ; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info