Nikon CLS/Canon Wireless Flash

I have a question about Nikon CLS or Canon Wireless Flash (although I doubt
anyone's tried it on a 7D yet).

Is it possible to meter manually and use the off camera flash as a
stand-a-lone manual flash, instead of TTL metering?

The reason I ask is because if I understand correctly they use light to
communicate between the body and the off camera flash. So:

1) Surely this will trigger the light meter too early, giving incorrect
exposure readings?
2) If you are on your own, how can you trigger the flash, and hold the light
meter on the subject at the same time without using the timer or camera
remote? I guess you can't.

Unless I'm missing something, I can't see it being any good for manual
metering and so is only really any use for TTL shooting? If you're using
multiple flashes, it sounds a bit trial and error to me.

STD wrote:
I have a question about Nikon CLS or Canon Wireless Flash (although I
doubt anyone's tried it on a 7D yet).

Is it possible to meter manually and use the off camera flash as a
stand-a-lone manual flash, instead of TTL metering?

Should be. Most flashes have manual power levels in full stops (1/1,
1/2, 1/4 ...). Meter a flash pop adjust flash power and/or aperture
accordingly. Set an appropriate shutter speed (1/125 - 1/250 per the
camera max sync (even higher with some Nikon's that do electronic
shuttering) and you're there. (lower shutter speed to increase ambient
content too).

Unless I'm missing something, I can't see it being any good for manual
metering and so is only really any use for TTL shooting? If you're
using multiple flashes, it sounds a bit trial and error to me.

The common studio technique, regardless of number of flash heads, is to
set the light power for a desired aperture. This includes backgrounds
above or under the exposure (pure white walls or subdued greys and
everything in between). This takes several meter measurements as you
build up the lighting, a final meter check for key exposure and usually
a test shot or two (used to be polaroids) to look for hot spots and
undesired shadows, deadspots and reflections.

The Sony a900/850 is great for these test shots with its intelligent
preview where you take a test shot that is not saved on the memory card,
but can be used to simulate exposure changes (adjust aperture and see
the histo change accordingly; accept the results and they are transfered
to the settings.

"Alan Browne" wrote in message
news
STD wrote:
I have a question about Nikon CLS or Canon Wireless Flash (although I
doubt anyone's tried it on a 7D yet).

Is it possible to meter manually and use the off camera flash as a
stand-a-lone manual flash, instead of TTL metering?

Should be. Most flashes have manual power levels in full stops (1/1, 1/2,
1/4 ...). Meter a flash pop adjust flash power and/or aperture
accordingly. Set an appropriate shutter speed (1/125 - 1/250 per the
camera max sync (even higher with some Nikon's that do electronic
shuttering) and you're there. (lower shutter speed to increase ambient
content too).

Unless I'm missing something, I can't see it being any good for manual
metering and so is only really any use for TTL shooting? If you're
using multiple flashes, it sounds a bit trial and error to me.

The common studio technique, regardless of number of flash heads, is to
set the light power for a desired aperture. This includes backgrounds
above or under the exposure (pure white walls or subdued greys and
everything in between). This takes several meter measurements as you
build up the lighting, a final meter check for key exposure and usually a
test shot or two (used to be polaroids) to look for hot spots and
undesired shadows, deadspots and reflections.

The Sony a900/850 is great for these test shots with its intelligent
preview where you take a test shot that is not saved on the memory card,
but can be used to simulate exposure changes (adjust aperture and see the
histo change accordingly; accept the results and they are transfered to
the settings.



But that's what I don't get. Say for example, you have a very basic 3 light
setup with a person against a white background.

1) Set the camera to manual, 1/125, f/8, ISO 100.

2) Switch the two background lights on, take the hotshoe transmitter off and
hold it in your hand (unless you have an overpriced Pocket Wizard system),
put the light meter on the background and trigger the hotshoe transmitter.
Adjust the two lights until you get f/14 evenly across the background.
Check the LCD to see what's blown out.

3) Switch the key on put the light meter on the subject and trigger the
hotshoe transmitter. Adjust the light until you get f/8 on the part you
want exposed correctly.

Piece of p*ss. But, with on camera flash triggering the lights, all I see
are problems. I don't get the usefulness of Canon/Nikon wireless flashes,
or when you would use them. Maybe I'm just being naive?

STD wrote:
"Alan Browne" wrote in message
news
STD wrote:
I have a question about Nikon CLS or Canon Wireless Flash (although I
doubt anyone's tried it on a 7D yet).

Is it possible to meter manually and use the off camera flash as a
stand-a-lone manual flash, instead of TTL metering?

Should be. Most flashes have manual power levels in full stops (1/1,
1/2, 1/4 ...). Meter a flash pop adjust flash power and/or aperture
accordingly. Set an appropriate shutter speed (1/125 - 1/250 per the
camera max sync (even higher with some Nikon's that do electronic
shuttering) and you're there. (lower shutter speed to increase
ambient content too).

Unless I'm missing something, I can't see it being any good for manual
metering and so is only really any use for TTL shooting? If you're
using multiple flashes, it sounds a bit trial and error to me.

The common studio technique, regardless of number of flash heads, is
to set the light power for a desired aperture. This includes
backgrounds above or under the exposure (pure white walls or subdued
greys and everything in between). This takes several meter
measurements as you build up the lighting, a final meter check for key
exposure and usually a test shot or two (used to be polaroids) to look
for hot spots and undesired shadows, deadspots and reflections.

The Sony a900/850 is great for these test shots with its intelligent
preview where you take a test shot that is not saved on the memory
card, but can be used to simulate exposure changes (adjust aperture
and see the histo change accordingly; accept the results and they are
transfered to the settings.



But that's what I don't get. Say for example, you have a very basic 3
light setup with a person against a white background.

1) Set the camera to manual, 1/125, f/8, ISO 100.

2) Switch the two background lights on, take the hotshoe transmitter off
and hold it in your hand (unless you have an overpriced Pocket Wizard
system), put the light meter on the background and trigger the hotshoe
transmitter. Adjust the two lights until you get f/14 evenly across the
background. Check the LCD to see what's blown out.

I think you'd want to see what _wasn't_ blown out (on the BG) when
you're 1 2/3 above aperture (assuming you want a uniformly pure white
BG). It's been suggested to me that 1 stop over is enough for a clean
white BG in order to avoid edge bleeding. OTOH, you risk under-burning
the BG in areas. (OTOH, the bleed effect might not be as pronounced
with digital as it is on film unless you have thin objects (wires, hair)
in the key light. May cause purple fringing. Check your mileage).

3) Switch the key on put the light meter on the subject and trigger the
hotshoe transmitter. Adjust the light until you get f/8 on the part you
want exposed correctly.

Piece of p*ss. But, with on camera flash triggering the lights, all I
see are problems. I don't get the usefulness of Canon/Nikon wireless
flashes, or when you would use them. Maybe I'm just being naive?

Naïve? Only because you are splitting the issue.

The use of wireless TTL is do to (wait for it) wireless TTL.

Which, if well understood by the photographer can do wonderful lighting
with little fuss - but possibly not the most carefully designed lighting
that you do with multiple studio lights. Wireless-TTL (depending on
manufacturer) provides for controlled lighting ratios from each flash in
the group. While not familiar with the Nikon system, I believe the
Canon system provides everything a portable small studio shooter needs
to create sophisticated lighting quickly and with little fuss.

How you described the lighting, eg: a pure-white BG with a keyed
subject, is pretty much bread and butter. In fact, I'd be hard pressed
to do that with my wireless TTL setup! (Designed more for key+fill).

I suggest that you experiment with TTL wireless as it's designed to be
used. Then you will find its advantages and shortcomings quickly enough.

Given my results with the Minolta wireless system the greatest
shortcoming is lighting consistency due to changing metering as the
subject is explored. (metering the white blouse v. the red skirt v. the
skin tones v. the black jacket (etc.) will result in varying light
output over many exposures unless compensated frame to frame
(T-E-D-I-O-U-S). This makes setting the lights manually much more
attractive than using TTL metering (wireless or otherwise) in the studio
or set location).