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Olympus 4/3rds advantages fading



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 19th 09, 05:18 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
John McWilliams
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Default Olympus 4/3rds advantages fading

Alan Browne wrote:
nospam wrote:
In article , Miles Bader
wrote:

But they are perfectly locked out of FF, regardless, as long as they
stick to the 3/4 standard.
"3/4 standard"?


an obvious typo.


I'm a member of the CAD (Canadian Dyslexics Association).


I thought CAD was the Dyslexics Association of Canada!
DAM!

--
john mcwilliams
  #12  
Old September 19th 09, 05:19 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Miles Bader[_2_]
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Posts: 173
Default Olympus 4/3rds advantages fading

Alan Browne writes:
I don't really think so -- the recently released K-7 is a _very_ good
camera and moves more towards the high-end for Pentax; the K-x simply
shows that the low-end is important too. [Supposedly they're due to
soon release a new model in between the two as well.]
A good point.

But they are perfectly locked out of FF, regardless, as long as they
stick to the 3/4 standard.


"3/4 standard"?


Yawn.


If you mean 4:3 standard, you must be thinking of Olympus; Pentax uses
APS-C for its DSLRs.

-Miles

--
Carefully crafted initial estimates reward you not only with
reduced computational effort, but also with understanding and
increased self-esteem. -- Numerical methods in C,
Chapter 9. "Root Finding and Nonlinear Sets of Equations"
  #13  
Old September 19th 09, 05:20 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Miles Bader[_2_]
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Posts: 173
Default Olympus 4/3rds advantages fading

nospam writes:
But any "size advantage" conferred by the 4/3 sensor is actually pretty
minimal -- the image diagonal of the 4/3 sensor is smaller than APS-C,
but less so than the sensor area might seem to indicate: the APS-C
sensor is 80% larger in area than the 4:3 sensor, but only 33% larger in
image diagonal (30.1mm vs 22.5mm).


area is what matters, and more closely represents the difference in
performance. 4/3 is about one stop noisier than aps-c and about 2 stops
noisier than full frame.


I wasn't talking about noise, I was talking about "size" -- i.e.,
basically the sensor diagonal, which is what the lens has to deliver.

-miles

--
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
  #14  
Old September 19th 09, 05:23 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Alan Browne
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Posts: 12,640
Default Olympus 4/3rds advantages fading

John McWilliams wrote:
Alan Browne wrote:
nospam wrote:
In article , Miles Bader
wrote:

But they are perfectly locked out of FF, regardless, as long as they
stick to the 3/4 standard.
"3/4 standard"?

an obvious typo.


I'm a member of the CAD (Canadian Dyslexics Association).


I thought CAD was the Dyslexics Association of Canada!


Probably is. Do you think I could even get that right?
  #15  
Old September 19th 09, 05:51 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Alan Browne
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Posts: 12,640
Default Olympus 4/3rds advantages fading

Miles Bader wrote:
Alan Browne writes:
I don't really think so -- the recently released K-7 is a _very_ good
camera and moves more towards the high-end for Pentax; the K-x simply
shows that the low-end is important too. [Supposedly they're due to
soon release a new model in between the two as well.]
A good point.

But they are perfectly locked out of FF, regardless, as long as they
stick to the 3/4 standard.
"3/4 standard"?

Yawn.


If you mean 4:3 standard, you must be thinking of Olympus; Pentax uses
APS-C for its DSLRs.

-Miles


Doh! (I was of course referring to Oly; but still, if Pentax don't go
FF, they will make themselves marginal - almost as marginal as Oly. [ I
haven't watched their lens sizing strategy at all...]).

BTW: The correct nomenclature is "Four Thirds", not 4:3 or 4/3.
  #16  
Old September 19th 09, 06:09 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
John McWilliams
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Posts: 6,945
Default Olympus 4/3rds advantages fading

Alan Browne wrote:
John McWilliams wrote:
Alan Browne wrote:
nospam wrote:
In article , Miles Bader
wrote:

But they are perfectly locked out of FF, regardless, as long as they
stick to the 3/4 standard.
"3/4 standard"?

an obvious typo.

I'm a member of the CAD (Canadian Dyslexics Association).


I thought CAD was the Dyslexics Association of Canada!


Probably is. Do you think I could even get that right?


We may! = Mais, oui!

Oh, well, boring day already...

--
john mcwilliams
  #17  
Old September 19th 09, 10:46 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default Olympus 4/3rds advantages fading

In article , bill_k
wrote:

But any "size advantage" conferred by the 4/3 sensor is actually pretty
minimal -- the image diagonal of the 4/3 sensor is smaller than APS-C,
but less so than the sensor area might seem to indicate: the APS-C
sensor is 80% larger in area than the 4:3 sensor, but only 33% larger in
image diagonal (30.1mm vs 22.5mm).


area is what matters, and more closely represents the difference in
performance. 4/3 is about one stop noisier than aps-c and about 2 stops
noisier than full frame.


A common misconception of all resident trolls. You cannot compare noise
levels by size alone.


absolutely you can.

As technologies advance, smaller sensors today are
far better than larger sensors of only a few months ago.


and that same technology can be applied to the larger sensor,
nullifying any advantage. the fact remains that for a given sensor
technology, larger sensors perform better. period.

The holy-grail
"full frame" 35mm analog film "standard" that everyone erroneously worships
is wholly irrelevant when it comes to digital imaging. There is no
"standard" anymore. Except in the minds of total fools.


it's the standard. deal with it.
  #18  
Old September 19th 09, 10:58 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Alan Browne
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Posts: 12,640
Default Olympus 4/3rds advantages fading

bill_k wrote:

far better than larger sensors of only a few months ago. The holy-grail
"full frame" 35mm analog film "standard" that everyone erroneously worships
is wholly irrelevant when it comes to digital imaging. There is no
"standard" anymore. Except in the minds of total fools.


Who said it was the standard?

OTOH it is _the_ reference. And as long as the reference is physically
larger for a given number of pixels it will be the Sig/Noise leader.

Physics.
  #19  
Old September 20th 09, 10:13 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
G Paleologopoulos
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Posts: 136
Default Olympus 4/3rds advantages fading

"nospam" wrote
...
The holy-grail
"full frame" 35mm analog film "standard" that everyone erroneously
worships
is wholly irrelevant when it comes to digital imaging. There is no
"standard" anymore. Except in the minds of total fools.


it's the standard. deal with it.



With this kind of thinking, CDs would have to be the size of vinyl records
(remember them??) to be any good.
New technologies set their own new standards. Deal with it.

  #20  
Old September 20th 09, 10:34 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Miles Bader[_2_]
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Posts: 173
Default Olympus 4/3rds advantages fading

"G Paleologopoulos" writes:
The holy-grail
"full frame" 35mm analog film "standard" that everyone erroneously
worships
is wholly irrelevant when it comes to digital imaging. There is no
"standard" anymore. Except in the minds of total fools.


it's the standard. deal with it.


With this kind of thinking, CDs would have to be the size of vinyl
records (remember them??) to be any good.


That's a silly analogy -- FF sensors are clearly not an obsolete size,
and given that you want _some_ point of reference for comparing sensor
sizes, it's an awful good idea to pick a size which was _already_ a
common point of reference, especially given the huge use of lenses and
other equipment made for that size.

-Miles

--
P.S. All information contained in the above letter is false,
for reasons of military security.
 




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