Speaking of misinformation - the corporate mouthpiece

"John A." wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Sep 2009 11:02:48 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
wrote:


"Ray Fischer" wrote in message
.. .
Neil Harrington wrote:
wrote in message
...

Ever consider these people whose babies die are unable to get health
insurance or proper care? I highly doubt our mortality rates are
brought
down from the cases you site, BUT both those cases still reflect a
lack
of
health care.

Actually, even in THOSE cases the newborn baby has often been saved by
the
arrival of paramedics whose concern for the infant was far greater than
its
mother's.

And there is the rightard's "solution" - rather than provide
preventative health care it's better to spend a fortune on
emergency care that might not even work.

What "preventative health care" exactly would prevent a teen-age unwed
mother from dumping her unwanted newborn baby in a dumpster?

Condoms and other birth control.

guffaw!

Don't you think it's a little late for condoms at dumpster time?

"John A." wrote in message
news
On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 11:03:06 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
wrote:


"John A." wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 19 Sep 2009 11:02:48 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
wrote:


"Ray Fischer" wrote in message
.. .
Neil Harrington wrote:
wrote in message
...

Ever consider these people whose babies die are unable to get health
insurance or proper care? I highly doubt our mortality rates are
brought
down from the cases you site, BUT both those cases still reflect a
lack
of
health care.

Actually, even in THOSE cases the newborn baby has often been saved by
the
arrival of paramedics whose concern for the infant was far greater
than
its
mother's.

And there is the rightard's "solution" - rather than provide
preventative health care it's better to spend a fortune on
emergency care that might not even work.

What "preventative health care" exactly would prevent a teen-age unwed
mother from dumping her unwanted newborn baby in a dumpster?

Condoms and other birth control.

guffaw!

Don't you think it's a little late for condoms at dumpster time?

Yes, but you asked what would prevent it.

No, I did not. What I asked was:
What "preventative health care" exactly would prevent a teen-age unwed
mother from dumping her unwanted newborn baby in a dumpster?

Condoms are something the boy or man uses, if he cares enough about it to
bother. Condoms are not so much "preventative health care" in these cases as
they are "pregnancy prevention care"; and since the male never gets pregnant
and in these situations evidently doesn't particularly give a **** about
whether the girl does or not, you're not going to convince him there's much
benefit in it.

Obviously, preventing her
from becoming a teenage mother would do the trick handily, and quite
cheaply compared to arranging for care of the child.

Yes indeed, but condoms are already widely available. In some schools where
they give them out for free, the students blow them up like balloons and
sail them out the window.

Unwed teenage pregnancy is a considerable problem in many minority
communities because of problems in behavior, absence of moral value systems
and attitudes about sex, not because they don't have condoms.
..

wrote in message ...
Neil Harrington wrote:
wrote in message
...
Neil Harrington wrote:

I have no idea.

But you're sure willing to point a finger none the less.

What exactly did they die of? I believe infants like grown people die
from specific causes.

In some of our cities, young unwed minority mothers have been known to
have babies in public rest rooms and leave them there, or throw them
away in dumpsters. These babies often die from exposure. I assume that
when pregnant, the same sorts of young women on crack may have higher
infant mortality rates as well. I would be VERY surprised if ordinary
middle-class families experience "poor infant mortality rates" -- on
the contrary, I would suppose ours to be among the best in the world.


OK here is a concept maybe you can fathom..

guffaw!

Yes, any "concept" you can put into words, I think I can fathom.

Ever consider these people whose babies die are unable to get health
insurance or proper care? I highly doubt our mortality rates are brought
down from the cases you site, BUT both those cases still reflect a lack
of health care.

Actually, even in THOSE cases the newborn baby has often been saved by
the arrival of paramedics whose concern for the infant was far greater
than its mother's.

Welfare moms get free medical care and I think in most (maybe not all)
cities it's pretty good care. But good care can only accomplish so much.


http://www.vachss.com/help_text/archive/babys_body.html Doesn't sound like
a welfare mom here.

How can you tell? I would assume the dumpster was accessible to anyone, as
is the one outside my apartment house. No identifying information is given
in the article.

There are plenty of cases of "upscale" mom's tossing babies too.

I haven't heard or read of any. Every baby-in-a-dumpster (or similar) news
item I've seen has involved a black or Hispanic infant. I wouldn't be
especially surprised if there were SOME exceptions to this, but if so they
seem to be relatively rare.

In any event, these are a very small % of "infant mortality".

Probably, yes. How about crack mothers?




Nearly half the cases of infant mortality among non-Hispanic black women
were due to preterm causes.

Got something to back up ANY of these claims?

Su
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwr...cid=mm5647a6_e



Crack babies I'm sure stand less of a chance of survival, for example.
There isn't much "health insurance or proper care" can do for a
crack-addicted unwed mother who has no real motivation to cure her
addiction.

Hmm well maybe NO WAY to receive treatment might factor in somewhat.

Treatment is always available in such communities. Hospitals can't refuse
them, even if they can't pay a nickel.

"John A." wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 22:10:01 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
wrote:


"John A." wrote in message
news
On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 11:03:06 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
wrote:


"John A." wrote in message
m...
On Sat, 19 Sep 2009 11:02:48 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
wrote:


"Ray Fischer" wrote in message
...
Neil Harrington wrote:
wrote in message
...

Ever consider these people whose babies die are unable to get
health
insurance or proper care? I highly doubt our mortality rates are
brought
down from the cases you site, BUT both those cases still reflect a
lack
of
health care.

Actually, even in THOSE cases the newborn baby has often been saved
by
the
arrival of paramedics whose concern for the infant was far greater
than
its
mother's.

And there is the rightard's "solution" - rather than provide
preventative health care it's better to spend a fortune on
emergency care that might not even work.

What "preventative health care" exactly would prevent a teen-age unwed
mother from dumping her unwanted newborn baby in a dumpster?

Condoms and other birth control.

guffaw!

Don't you think it's a little late for condoms at dumpster time?

Yes, but you asked what would prevent it.

No, I did not. What I asked was:
What "preventative health care" exactly would prevent a teen-age unwed
mother from dumping her unwanted newborn baby in a dumpster?

Do you know what "preventative" means?

It's an adjective. That means it modifies the noun that follows. You need to
consider "preventative health care" as a complete concept -- "preventative"
taken all by itself does not have the same meaing. This should not be
difficult to understand.


Condoms are something the boy or man uses, if he cares enough about it to
bother. Condoms are not so much "preventative health care" in these cases
as
they are "pregnancy prevention care"; and since the male never gets
pregnant
and in these situations evidently doesn't particularly give a **** about
whether the girl does or not, you're not going to convince him there's
much
benefit in it.

"...and other birth control." And yes, it's health care.

You are confusing two different concepts -- "health care" does not mean
"birth control."

On 9/22/09 16:50 , John A. wrote:

So tell me this: in what section of a store will you find birth
control? Hardware? Sundries? Automotive?


Next to the veal.

"John A." wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 09:57:40 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
wrote:


"John A." wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 22:10:01 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
wrote:


"John A." wrote in message
news On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 11:03:06 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
wrote:




Condoms are something the boy or man uses, if he cares enough about it
to
bother. Condoms are not so much "preventative health care" in these
cases
as
they are "pregnancy prevention care"; and since the male never gets
pregnant
and in these situations evidently doesn't particularly give a **** about
whether the girl does or not, you're not going to convince him there's
much
benefit in it.

"...and other birth control." And yes, it's health care.

You are confusing two different concepts -- "health care" does not mean
"birth control."

So tell me this: in what section of a store will you find birth
control? Hardware? Sundries? Automotive?

Beats me. I've never seen birth control sold in a store.

Do you mean birth control DEVICES? I suppose you'd find those in Closet
Supplies, and perhaps other departments.

But "birth control" is one of those misnomers, isn't it? It's really birth
PREVENTION that people are talking about when they use the term. Birth
CONTROL iz what you'd use the Lamaze Method for, I think. I've never seen
that in a store.

"John A." wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:50:03 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
wrote:


"John A." wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 09:57:40 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
wrote:


"John A." wrote in message
m...
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 22:10:01 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
wrote:


"John A." wrote in message
news1rdb55c51fj90d69fsusug92mne90g6j5@4ax. com...
On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 11:03:06 -0400, "Neil Harrington"

wrote:




Condoms are something the boy or man uses, if he cares enough about it
to
bother. Condoms are not so much "preventative health care" in these
cases
as
they are "pregnancy prevention care"; and since the male never gets
pregnant
and in these situations evidently doesn't particularly give a ****
about
whether the girl does or not, you're not going to convince him there's
much
benefit in it.

"...and other birth control." And yes, it's health care.

You are confusing two different concepts -- "health care" does not mean
"birth control."

So tell me this: in what section of a store will you find birth
control? Hardware? Sundries? Automotive?

Beats me. I've never seen birth control sold in a store.

Do you mean birth control DEVICES? I suppose you'd find those in Closet
Supplies, and perhaps other departments.

But "birth control" is one of those misnomers, isn't it? It's really birth
PREVENTION that people are talking about when they use the term. Birth
CONTROL iz what you'd use the Lamaze Method for, I think. I've never seen
that in a store.

Oh dear. Another convenient definition changer. Do you put fake plates
on your car too?

Whaddaya mean, "too"? Words MEAN things. We live in a world of misnomers,
but that's no reason to refuse to defend the language.

Or do you really not understand the difference between "control" and
"prevention"?

I assume since you're in this NG you must have at least one DSLR. It has
certain exposure CONTROLS, does it not? Are any of them called PREVENTIONS?
Do you say, for example, "Now I'm going to set this shutter speed prevention
at 1/250"?

"Birth control" is a misnomer when it's used to mean pregnancy prevention,
as it generally is.

In any case, pregnancy prevention whatever it's called is not "health care,"
unless there is a medical reason for avoiding pregnancy. In only a
vanishingly small number of cases is that true.

On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 09:54:30 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
wrote:


"John A." wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:50:03 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
wrote:


"John A." wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 09:57:40 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
wrote:


"John A." wrote in message
om...
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 22:10:01 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
wrote:


"John A." wrote in message
news1rdb55c51fj90d69fsusug92mne90g6j5@4ax .com...
On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 11:03:06 -0400, "Neil Harrington"

wrote:




Condoms are something the boy or man uses, if he cares enough about it
to
bother. Condoms are not so much "preventative health care" in these
cases
as
they are "pregnancy prevention care"; and since the male never gets
pregnant
and in these situations evidently doesn't particularly give a ****
about
whether the girl does or not, you're not going to convince him there's
much
benefit in it.

"...and other birth control." And yes, it's health care.

You are confusing two different concepts -- "health care" does not mean
"birth control."

So tell me this: in what section of a store will you find birth
control? Hardware? Sundries? Automotive?

Beats me. I've never seen birth control sold in a store.

Do you mean birth control DEVICES? I suppose you'd find those in Closet
Supplies, and perhaps other departments.

But "birth control" is one of those misnomers, isn't it? It's really birth
PREVENTION that people are talking about when they use the term. Birth
CONTROL iz what you'd use the Lamaze Method for, I think. I've never seen
that in a store.

Oh dear. Another convenient definition changer. Do you put fake plates
on your car too?

Whaddaya mean, "too"? Words MEAN things. We live in a world of misnomers,
but that's no reason to refuse to defend the language.

I guess you haven't been reading Bill's posts in the "apology" thread.

Or do you really not understand the difference between "control" and
"prevention"?

I assume since you're in this NG you must have at least one DSLR. It has
certain exposure CONTROLS, does it not? Are any of them called PREVENTIONS?
Do you say, for example, "Now I'm going to set this shutter speed prevention
at 1/250"?

"Birth control" is a misnomer when it's used to mean pregnancy prevention,
as it generally is.

In any case, pregnancy prevention whatever it's called is not "health care,"
unless there is a medical reason for avoiding pregnancy. In only a
vanishingly small number of cases is that true.

Not as small as you'd think.

In any case, you are obviously being deliberately obtuse in regards to
birth control being a part of healthcare in order to stubbornly defend
a faulty argument. If you think I'm the only one who can see that
you're sadly mistaken, and perhaps not as deliberate about it all as
I'm thinking.

"John A." wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 09:54:30 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
wrote:


"John A." wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:50:03 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
wrote:


"John A." wrote in message
m...
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 09:57:40 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
wrote:


"John A." wrote in message
news:13hgb5d2i2dlhrd2ua9s9m5jssc9e08gb3@4ax. com...
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 22:10:01 -0400, "Neil Harrington"

wrote:


"John A." wrote in message
news1rdb55c51fj90d69fsusug92mne90g6j5@4a x.com...
On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 11:03:06 -0400, "Neil Harrington"

wrote:




Condoms are something the boy or man uses, if he cares enough about
it
to
bother. Condoms are not so much "preventative health care" in these
cases
as
they are "pregnancy prevention care"; and since the male never gets
pregnant
and in these situations evidently doesn't particularly give a ****
about
whether the girl does or not, you're not going to convince him
there's
much
benefit in it.

"...and other birth control." And yes, it's health care.

You are confusing two different concepts -- "health care" does not
mean
"birth control."

So tell me this: in what section of a store will you find birth
control? Hardware? Sundries? Automotive?

Beats me. I've never seen birth control sold in a store.

Do you mean birth control DEVICES? I suppose you'd find those in Closet
Supplies, and perhaps other departments.

But "birth control" is one of those misnomers, isn't it? It's really
birth
PREVENTION that people are talking about when they use the term. Birth
CONTROL iz what you'd use the Lamaze Method for, I think. I've never
seen
that in a store.

Oh dear. Another convenient definition changer. Do you put fake plates
on your car too?

Whaddaya mean, "too"? Words MEAN things. We live in a world of misnomers,
but that's no reason to refuse to defend the language.

I guess you haven't been reading Bill's posts in the "apology" thread.

I've read only some of the posts there.


Or do you really not understand the difference between "control" and
"prevention"?

I assume since you're in this NG you must have at least one DSLR. It has
certain exposure CONTROLS, does it not? Are any of them called
PREVENTIONS?
Do you say, for example, "Now I'm going to set this shutter speed
prevention
at 1/250"?

"Birth control" is a misnomer when it's used to mean pregnancy prevention,
as it generally is.

In any case, pregnancy prevention whatever it's called is not "health
care,"
unless there is a medical reason for avoiding pregnancy. In only a
vanishingly small number of cases is that true.

Not as small as you'd think.

Vanishingly small.


In any case, you are obviously being deliberately obtuse in regards to
birth control being a part of healthcare in order to stubbornly defend
a faulty argument.

Then you should be able easily to show the fault in the argument. Is it some
sort of secret thing that you don't want to share?

"Neil Harrington" wrote in message


[...]

In any case, pregnancy prevention whatever it's called is not "health
care," unless there is a medical reason for avoiding pregnancy. In
only a vanishingly small number of cases is that true.

Given the biological changes to a woman's body when she becomes pregnant,
not all of them benign, only a smug, self-satisfied male could make such an
asinine assertion.