[SI] Comments on Asymmetry

OK, in celebration of my just now completed replacement of a 49 Kbps dial-up
modem Internet connection (with an effective throughput of about half that)
by an 8-16 Mbps oh-my-god connection, I'll do a few comments this week...

(Damn these photos come up fast!)

Douglas MacDonald
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76214361
I like the concept. Asymmetric in size, shape, color and state and
arraignment. The glasses are small, round, clear/white, empty and recede
from left-to-right. The bottles are large, straight, opaque/brown, full and
recede right-to-left. Five asymmetries in one image. Six, if you count the
fact that the left side of the frame is generally lighter and the right side
is generally darker. My only minor quibble is that the background is not a
bit more graphically clean, although I do think the greens go well with the
browns. Nevertheless, found subjects will almost always present this
problem. Short of PSing them out (and thus morphing the image from
photograph into graphic illustration), the best that can be done is to work
around the limitations as best one can.

Alan Williams
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76214626
I wonder how they knew in 1896 that 111 years later the SI would need them
to have built this? It's the perfect subject. And Alan has approached this
subject pretty well. I like the fact that the lowest step is kept parallel
with the bottom frame edge. By doing so it anchors the asymmetry of the
other elements. By not standing directly in front of the door and pointing
the camera upward, the brick wall grid is rendered sloping left. There is a
single light (I think) high to the left side of the doors, and a door
handle/mail slot only on the right door. Additionally, the upper frame
shows reddish-browns, while the lower frame shows bluish-grays. Another set
of multiple asymmetries.

Paul Furman
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76214697
Conceptually my favorite, hands down - plagiarism notwithstanding. An
asymmetry so common that it has faded far from the consciousness of
everyone. And the fact that it is asymmetric not because of what is seen,
but rather because of what is missing, except in the imaginations of the
viewers (the familiar full circle), is for me the best part. Geez, I like
the idea behind this one. The photo itself may not be as spectacular as
Paul might have wished, but the thought behind it is pretty strong.

Mardon
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76214914
An excellent found subject depicting and excellent asymmetry. And living
only two hours south of the Canadian border, I had no need to consult an
encyclopedia to grasp the concept. The elements here afforded much more
leeway in dealing with the background than Douglas had with his subject.
Here background distance is a friend and contributes nicely to subject
isolation. Bold color combined with clean whites on an overcast day make
for a good interpretation by the photographer.

Bowser
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76214983
Ahh, Bowser. You did it to me again. This isn't the first time I had an
idea similar to one of yours, then you did it better. There are a pair of
sheds out in my neck of the woods that I thought might work. They were
asymmetric by texture and not by color. (You know, that b&w thing of
mine...) But I think your color differentiation works better. And the
reason is that everything in this picture is non-asymmetric except for the
two colors. (Is there some slight pincushion distortion at work here?)
Fortunately I was unable to find the time for a photo session and thus be
embarrassed by your submission. My compliments to the spouse. Wives do
work in mysterious ways, don't they?

Jim Kramer
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76252171
My second most favorite of this group. Color and sharpness in the
foreground, monochrome and blur in the background. Pleasantly increasing
radii of curvature from back-to-front. Vertical format accentuating the
subject elements. Simple and graphic, but with one particular aspect that
sets it above the rest. That being the fact that all the others are
photographs of already existing asymmetrical subjects. Each was noticed by
the photographer *because* they were inherently and obviously not symmetric.
In this case, however, the photographer used his own vision to create a
non-symmetry where one did not easily jump out and announce itself. Make no
mistake, this is not an easy thing to do. Nicely done, Jim.

Bret Douglas
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76276208
Another interpretation high up on my list. Sixty-five mostly NASCAR
grayish-brown birds and one Formula 1 brilliant white one. (Ask me later.)
A subject management nightmare, to be sure - although I've seen worse at a
few formal wedding portrait sessions. I never take points off for archive
images, and especially here. It's pretty obvious why the shutter was
released. And it's a perfect match for the mandate. The two main
asymmetries, color and direction, work very well for me.

Paul Campbell
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76286081
Lord it's good to find I'm not the last believer on Earth still practicing
the ancient, black art of true photography. (That 'ought to raise the BP of
a few around here... g) A good concept decently realized. Oddly, my
first reaction was that this was a really hot day. Nothing in the picture
explicitly says that, but there it is nevertheless. Strange, eh? Maybe
it's the nearly empty shadows beneath the chairs that lend a sense of hot
glaring sunlight. Or maybe it's the near-axis lighting. In any case, I now
fully expect Paul to tell us it was actually ten degrees below freezing that
day... BTW, I've always had a great deal of respect for the quality of the
SMC Takumars. Years ago a friend of mine owned a full Spotmatic system.
Back in the day (when men were men, etc.) Pentax made some killer quality
stuff. Nice to see a bit of it still in use.

And Paul, please keep those film photographs coming. I can only absorb so
many blows to the head by the "less expensive and more convenient" crowd...
bg

Ken Nadvornick wrote:

Alan Williams
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76214626
I wonder how they knew in 1896 that 111 years later the SI would need
them to have built this? It's the perfect subject.

:-)

And Alan has approached this
subject pretty well. I like the fact that the lowest step is kept
parallel
with the bottom frame edge. By doing so it anchors the asymmetry of
the other elements.

Thank you. That was deliberate.

By not standing directly in front of the door and pointing
the camera upward, the brick wall grid is rendered sloping left. There is
a
single light (I think) high to the left side of the doors, ...

Yes, it's a light. In previous images I have cloned it out for cleanliness.

... and a door handle/mail slot only on the right door. Additionally, the
upper frame shows reddish-browns, while the lower frame shows
bluish-grays. Another set of multiple asymmetries.

I enjoy and appreciate your exquisite eye for detail. Thanks very much for
your kind words.

On Mar 28, 3:23 am, "Ken Nadvornick"
wrote:
OK, in celebration of my just now completed replacement of a 49 Kbps dial-up
modem Internet connection (with an effective throughput of about half that)
by an 8-16 Mbps oh-my-god connection, I'll do a few comments this week...

(Damn these photos come up fast!)

Douglas MacDonaldhttp://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76214361
I like the concept. Asymmetric in size, shape, color and state and
arraignment. The glasses are small, round, clear/white, empty and recede
from left-to-right. The bottles are large, straight, opaque/brown, full and
recede right-to-left. Five asymmetries in one image. Six, if you count the
fact that the left side of the frame is generally lighter and the right side
is generally darker. My only minor quibble is that the background is not a
bit more graphically clean, although I do think the greens go well with the
browns. Nevertheless, found subjects will almost always present this
problem. Short of PSing them out (and thus morphing the image from
photograph into graphic illustration), the best that can be done is to work
around the limitations as best one can.

Alan Williamshttp://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76214626
I wonder how they knew in 1896 that 111 years later the SI would need them
to have built this? It's the perfect subject. And Alan has approached this
subject pretty well. I like the fact that the lowest step is kept parallel
with the bottom frame edge. By doing so it anchors the asymmetry of the
other elements. By not standing directly in front of the door and pointing
the camera upward, the brick wall grid is rendered sloping left. There is a
single light (I think) high to the left side of the doors, and a door
handle/mail slot only on the right door. Additionally, the upper frame
shows reddish-browns, while the lower frame shows bluish-grays. Another set
of multiple asymmetries.

Paul Furmanhttp://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76214697
Conceptually my favorite, hands down - plagiarism notwithstanding. An
asymmetry so common that it has faded far from the consciousness of
everyone. And the fact that it is asymmetric not because of what is seen,
but rather because of what is missing, except in the imaginations of the
viewers (the familiar full circle), is for me the best part. Geez, I like
the idea behind this one. The photo itself may not be as spectacular as
Paul might have wished, but the thought behind it is pretty strong.

Mardonhttp://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76214914
An excellent found subject depicting and excellent asymmetry. And living
only two hours south of the Canadian border, I had no need to consult an
encyclopedia to grasp the concept. The elements here afforded much more
leeway in dealing with the background than Douglas had with his subject.
Here background distance is a friend and contributes nicely to subject
isolation. Bold color combined with clean whites on an overcast day make
for a good interpretation by the photographer.

Bowserhttp://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76214983
Ahh, Bowser. You did it to me again. This isn't the first time I had an
idea similar to one of yours, then you did it better. There are a pair of
sheds out in my neck of the woods that I thought might work. They were
asymmetric by texture and not by color. (You know, that b&w thing of
mine...) But I think your color differentiation works better. And the
reason is that everything in this picture is non-asymmetric except for the
two colors. (Is there some slight pincushion distortion at work here?)
Fortunately I was unable to find the time for a photo session and thus be
embarrassed by your submission. My compliments to the spouse. Wives do
work in mysterious ways, don't they?

Jim Kramerhttp://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76252171
My second most favorite of this group. Color and sharpness in the
foreground, monochrome and blur in the background. Pleasantly increasing
radii of curvature from back-to-front. Vertical format accentuating the
subject elements. Simple and graphic, but with one particular aspect that
sets it above the rest. That being the fact that all the others are
photographs of already existing asymmetrical subjects. Each was noticed by
the photographer *because* they were inherently and obviously not symmetric.
In this case, however, the photographer used his own vision to create a
non-symmetry where one did not easily jump out and announce itself. Make no
mistake, this is not an easy thing to do. Nicely done, Jim.

Bret Douglashttp://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76276208
Another interpretation high up on my list. Sixty-five mostly NASCAR
grayish-brown birds and one Formula 1 brilliant white one. (Ask me later.)
A subject management nightmare, to be sure - although I've seen worse at a
few formal wedding portrait sessions. I never take points off for archive
images, and especially here. It's pretty obvious why the shutter was
released. And it's a perfect match for the mandate. The two main
asymmetries, color and direction, work very well for me.

Paul Campbellhttp://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76286081
Lord it's good to find I'm not the last believer on Earth still practicing
the ancient, black art of true photography. (That 'ought to raise the BP of
a few around here... g) A good concept decently realized. Oddly, my
first reaction was that this was a really hot day. Nothing in the picture
explicitly says that, but there it is nevertheless. Strange, eh? Maybe
it's the nearly empty shadows beneath the chairs that lend a sense of hot
glaring sunlight. Or maybe it's the near-axis lighting. In any case, I now
fully expect Paul to tell us it was actually ten degrees below freezing that
day... BTW, I've always had a great deal of respect for the quality of the
SMC Takumars. Years ago a friend of mine owned a full Spotmatic system.
Back in the day (when men were men, etc.) Pentax made some killer quality
stuff. Nice to see a bit of it still in use.

And Paul, please keep those film photographs coming. I can only absorb so
many blows to the head by the "less expensive and more convenient" crowd...
bg

I really don't have a say here, as I didn't have an entry for this
particular SI, but after reading the reviews I am very impressed with
Ken's knowledge and experience to give great and thorough comments.
BTW: I was disappointed not to see one of your black and white
entries Ken. Your work is always impressive. (I'll be joining in the
SI as well very soon).
Helen

((sorry if this turns into a double post - small PC glitch))

Nice work, Ken - it's great to see someone put so much effort into
their critiques...

Douglas MacDonald
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76214361
Perhaps a studio version would have been better - ummm, was this an
archive shot? I am left puzzled by the choices - why so much d-o-f
and why the burnt-out sky? - you used fill flash, so you could have
controlled the ambient lighting.. A bit lower viewpoint would have
removed the plastic chairs from view, and those plastic cups could
have been shifted. So I must differ from Ken here - I don't think you
were at all restricted by this being a 'found scene' - it's a set shot
that could have been adjusted/improved easily. Also needs a slight
contrast tweak to give it decent blacks. With a little attention to
detail, it could have been good.

Alan Williams
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76214626
Nice image, but I keep wondering whether it should be cropped to
remove those upper bricks. I'm a bit of a minimalist.. Striking and
interesting, well exposed.. but it wouldn't have been very challenging
to get that right, I would guess (O; I quite like the very odd
perspective effect - ie neatly square steps but bent door and skewed
bricks - my brain wants there to be at least one other element that is
square... So given that added weirdness element, maybe leaving the
bricks in was a good idea. (O;

Paul Furman
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76214697
Having seen an awful lot of almost-but-not-quite-sharp moon shots..
this one leaves me a bit cold, just like that shadowed area of
Luna... But I agree with Ken that it's good to be reminded of the
basics in things we see every day. A nice touch to shoot in broad
daylight, but... there's a fair bit of noise showing in the darkness
(esp near the lower limb).

Mardon
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76214914
Like Ken, I enjoyed Mardon's use of d-o-f, and choice of subject -
clever, but I hope it wasn't you who did the deed..! (And I also live
in Australia, but immediately saw the 'joke' - sum of us antipodeans
have tryed to edumafacate ourselvs on udder countrys.) My only
problems are that washed out sky (Hint to Mardon and Doug - *polariser!
*) and the slightly distracting twigs - while I don't like fakery, I'd
be sorely tempted to just clone those little suckers out...(O; I
think this one is the winner for me, just...

Bowser
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76214983
Almost a masterpiece, and the only reason it didn't win for me was
that it was in your back/front yard... (O; Sorry, but these sort of
images require that you have traveled to some exotic/weird remote
location, like the Maldives or sumpin... I would have tweaked the
contrast a bit to remove most of the bits of detail in the dark
windows and to thereby concentrate more on the subject only, plus I
would have dragged out the perspective tools to get it *absolutely*
straight and pure - it is very close, but the very slight bend along
the top, and the slight slant at bottom are made a little too obvious
by the close (but good and necessary, imo) crop.

Jim Kramer
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76252171
Lovely. But where's the obligatory water droplet? (O; This image
has me in two minds, I like the subtle almost-softness and contrast,
but can't help wondering if it might look better given the over-
contrast, over-sharpening, over-saturation that such an image normally
gets. Nah. Leave it as is. Very nice. Love the monochrome
background.

Bret Douglas
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76276208
Like it very much - although after reading Ken's crit I was waiting
for the cars to appear... My problem with this one is simply the post-
processing, especially sharpening - most of the image looks a bit
soft, maybe lacking a little contrast also.. The stony ground and the
feathers of the birds seem lacking in fine detail, but I can clearly
see halos around the beaks that are in front of the water - this
suggests to me that your sharpening settings may have been a bit off.
I think with a bit of work, the image could be subtly but markedly
improved in that area.

Paul Campbell
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76286081
Lovely old-world b&w. Good subject, but I think the cropping could be
better - both sides look a bit truncated, but I would definitely like
the bottom of the leftmost chairleg to be there. I also think the
shadows look a bit flat - I'd like to see a bit more contrast (ie
blacker blacks) but not at the expense of blocking the shadows more
than they already are. Having said all that, I'm crap at b&w, so
don't listen to me...


HTH

On Mar 28, 3:23 am, "Ken Nadvornick"
wrote:
OK, in celebration of my just now completed replacement of a 49 Kbps dial-up
modem Internet connection (with an effective throughput of about half that)
by an 8-16 Mbps oh-my-god connection, I'll do a few comments this week...

Welcome to whatever century this is. :-) I hope you enjoy your new
bandwidth.

Jim Kramer http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76252171
My second most favorite of this group. Color and sharpness in the
foreground, monochrome and blur in the background. Pleasantly increasing
radii of curvature from back-to-front. Vertical format accentuating the
subject elements. Simple and graphic, but with one particular aspect that
sets it above the rest. That being the fact that all the others are
photographs of already existing asymmetrical subjects. Each was noticed by
the photographer *because* they were inherently and obviously not symmetric.
In this case, however, the photographer used his own vision to create a
non-symmetry where one did not easily jump out and announce itself. Make no
mistake, this is not an easy thing to do. Nicely done, Jim.

This is my Amaryllis. It will be celebrating its 10th year with me in
its third pot, the bulb is the size of a softball now. The leaves
caught my attention early into the mandate period, but I was at a loss
as to how to photograph them. Directly, they were similar but all
five were differing in size. So I took control of the lighting.
(cheated) The Amaryllis sits in my kitchen window which gets morning
sun. The dark background is a piece of black foam core that is used to
block the sun from the back two leaves, and lets the front three be
backlit.

So I have asymmetry in the leaf size, the leaf color, the number of
leaves, the side of the leaf that is illuminated and the curve of the
leaves. Over thought out? Never!

Thanks for your generous comments,
Jim

On Mar 28, 7:48 am, wrote:

Jim Kramer http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76252171
Lovely. But where's the obligatory water droplet? (O; This image
has me in two minds, I like the subtle almost-softness and contrast,
but can't help wondering if it might look better given the over-
contrast, over-sharpening, over-saturation that such an image normally
gets. Nah. Leave it as is. Very nice. Love the monochrome
background.

Being a live plant the water drops are internal. :-)

Leaf it alone, you say?

Thanks for commenting,
Jim

Paul wrote:

Mardon
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76214914
Great photo, and as a Canuck, this one hurts my heart. The crisp
lines and bold colours work really well against the drab background.
In fact, I was surprised at how true the colours are, since typically,
a flag this damaged physically is also rather weathered. Mardon,
might you gently suggest to the owner that it's time for a
replacement? And of course, if it's your flag.
Very striking, couldn't have hit the mandate better, and makes me
homesick.

Thnak you very much for commeting on the photos, Paul Great job! I'm glad
you are Canadian and understood the aysymetery. I figured it might not be
immediately obvious to everyone but I thought people would eventually
figure it out. It's not my flag. I would not fly it like that. I suspect
that the red is still a deep colour becuase the flag hasn't been flying
very long. Here in Newfoundland, few people even attempt to fly flags in
the winter because of the wind. They can easily get torn up in just a few
days. That's probably what happened to this one. I have no idea who the
people are who are flying this flag. I'd be reluctant to stop and suggest
they replace it. My suspicision is that they will replace it themselves
before too long. If it looked like an old weathered flag that had been
unattended for a long period of time, I might feel differently. I doubt
that this one has been like this too long.

"Ken Nadvornick" wrote:

Mardon
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76214914
An excellent found subject depicting and excellent asymmetry. And living
only two hours south of the Canadian border, I had no need to consult an
encyclopedia to grasp the concept. The elements here afforded much more
leeway in dealing with the background than Douglas had with his subject.
Here background distance is a friend and contributes nicely to subject
isolation. Bold color combined with clean whites on an overcast day make
for a good interpretation by the photographer.

Thanks, Ken, for your comments.

As this mandate was my suggestion, I thought I might venture into the
world of comments. Not only am I a newbie photo-wise, I also don’t know
what I’m talking about, so please take my remarks as such.

Douglas MacDonald
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76214361
In general it hits the mandate well. I like the juxtaposition of tall,
dark glass against short, clear glass. The out-of-focus/bokeh beyond
the bottles appears to be different than that on the left of the frame
and I found that a little distracting. I also thought that the central
wineglass disrupted the symmetry of the asymmetry (if that makes sense),
and perhaps that’s the point.

Alan Williams
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76214626
This shot is a great example of the asymmetry that I had in mind when I
proposed the mandate. We are so accustomed to doors/doorways/stairs
being balanced; I think that’s part of why this is so striking. Do you
have a version that is not cropped as tightly? I’m wondering if the
effect might be even more dramatic if we could see the full sweep and
curve of the right side pulling away from the door. I shot an
asymmetric staircase, but I’m glad I didn’t submit that, it’s not nearly
as cool as this photo. I think if I build a house, I’ll design my
entrance like this, just to mess with peoples’ minds.

Paul Furman
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76214697
I really like this shot, again for much of the same reason as above,
that our expectation of the moon is that of a sphere. I wish I had
lenses with focal lengths appropriate for lunar shots. What equipment
did you use to take this image?

Mardon
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76214914
Great photo, and as a Canuck, this one hurts my heart. The crisp lines
and bold colours work really well against the drab background. In fact,
I was surprised at how true the colours are, since typically, a flag
this damaged physically is also rather weathered. Mardon, might you
gently suggest to the owner that it’s time for a replacement? And of
course, if it’s your flag…
Very striking, couldn’t have hit the mandate better, and makes me homesick.

Bowser
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76214983
Really well done. Bang on for asymmetry. I think the tight crop works
very well for this shot, no muss, no fuss. Simple, clean. Maybe you
should tell your wife that due to all of your Shootin accolades over
this image, you’ve decided to leave the doors as they are. I mean,
when you start to use your home for your art, that shows real conviction!

Jim Kramer
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76252171
It took me a while to come around on this one, and that’s entirely due
to the restrictions I had in my head. As I mentioned, this was my
mandate, so I had a preconception of how to solve it even as I was
submitting it to the moderator, and that framework was of something
man-made, or otherwise arranged, or lacking, or missing, or _actively_
put out of balance. So when I saw this shot, my first instinct was that
it largely missed the mandate, and while it was beautiful aesthetically,
I wasn’t impressed. But of course it does fit asymmetry, doesn’t it?
First, nature is inherently asymmetric, and second, the image captures
many different elements: varying curves, length, lighting, etc. I like
the way that the background leaves are largely vertical while the
foreground curls out of frame. This photo affirms why I lurked around
Shootin for quite a while before I submitted any shots of my own: it’s
always interesting to see how someone’s execution differs from your own
ideas. Well done, and thank you.

Bret Douglas
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76276208
A decent example of asymmetry. I think more than the colour difference,
I’m curious about what that one bird is looking at out of frame to the
right.

Paul Campbell
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76286081
I shot many frames of these chairs, differently exposed and/or composed,
and then played around with a couple of the negatives in the darkroom
last night (nothing says panic like splashing around in fixer hours
before your submission is due). There’s a bench beside the last group
of chairs on the right, but it and half of that stack were in shadow. I
found it distracting, hence the shot that you see. My scan of the print
wasn’t quite square, and rather than scan again (see late night, last
minute panic above), I rotated and trimmed the chair leg on the left,
definitely detracting from the final product. In general, I like the
image, although it could benefit from more diligence and less operator
error. I mostly like that it was completely different from the 4 or 5
ideas I originally had in my head. Isn’t that the point, after all?

Many thanks to all who played along this round, and to Mr. Kramer for
moderating Shootin.
Cheers,
Paul

Ken Nadvornick wrote:

Paul Campbell
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/76286081
Lord it's good to find I'm not the last believer on Earth still practicing
the ancient, black art of true photography. (That 'ought to raise the BP of
a few around here... g) A good concept decently realized. Oddly, my
first reaction was that this was a really hot day. Nothing in the picture
explicitly says that, but there it is nevertheless. Strange, eh? Maybe
it's the nearly empty shadows beneath the chairs that lend a sense of hot
glaring sunlight. Or maybe it's the near-axis lighting. In any case, I now
fully expect Paul to tell us it was actually ten degrees below freezing that
day... BTW, I've always had a great deal of respect for the quality of the
SMC Takumars. Years ago a friend of mine owned a full Spotmatic system.
Back in the day (when men were men, etc.) Pentax made some killer quality
stuff. Nice to see a bit of it still in use.

And Paul, please keep those film photographs coming. I can only absorb so
many blows to the head by the "less expensive and more convenient" crowd...
bg


Indeed it was a warm day, probably around 27 C/82 F, with an intense,
cloudless sky. I would have liked the shadows better if it hadn't been
the middle of the day (especially to give the bricks even more texture),
but that's when I decided to get out and burn some film.
I am very much liking my Spotmatic and Tak gear; it feels nicely solid
in the hand and the optics of the lenses have a decent reputation.
Thanks for your comments, Ken.