A photo that ranks with the best

http://www.dotphoto.com/Go.asp?l=pal...D=57755206&T=1

I will be discussing this photo. Sorry, but what you see is not large enough
to show all its potential.

Last night I got word of a contest for photographs of the Delaware River and
environs. I was up early this AM so I set out on foot from my home in Easton
PA. The Forks of the Delaware and the Lehigh Rivers are just a half mile
from my home. I carried just my Oly E-10 (4MP) and a tripod. It was about
7:30 AM. The air was clear...low moisture. The sun was not yet up but there
was light. There are parks and walking paths along the rivers and I followed
them. We had catastrophic floods last week but the rivers were back down. I
examined the piles of debris left by the waters but didn't find anything. A
few hundred yards along I saw this scene. There is a fence and a dam that I
didn't want in the photo....so I set up close to the fence so I could shoot
over it. Zooming in I got the scene that you see....here it's trimmed for
8x10 but at full frame it works well too. Knowing that I wanted to compress
the range of tones I set the camera for RAW and bracketed by 2 stops. I took
about three series of shots. Some were messed up by moving cars or birds.

Back home I loaded Photoshop and pulled up the RAW files. Looking over the
thumbnails I found the set with the most potential and brought up the middle
exposure. I let is set for a bit while I smoked my pipe. The color was
unimportant to the scene. The print would be displayed with film based
prints from other serious photographers and judged by film photographers so
I desaturated the scene to bring out the textures. I adjusted contrast and
tones for the fullest possible range and processed them all the same.

The bridges were too dark and the sky too light so I sandwiched the middle
exposure with the darkest. The lightest added nothing so I dismissed it.
Erasing the darkest areas of the bridges and the trees I got this full
ranged photograph.

I shot on instinct. I knew it was a good scene but the full "Zen-ness" of it
took time to be realized. I named it Many Paths. This photo is worth a
thousand words and I won't go into it all here. The viewer has to do some of
the work. I took the file over to a friend's house where he has a good Epson
7-color printer. We discussed how we could print it....and then started
drinking Tequila...the $50 a bottle stuff. This is a photo to celebrate with
the good stuff!

That is how I work....when I am lucky. Questions?
--
Thanks,
Gene Palmiter
freebridge design group
freebridge magazine

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 04:01:31 GMT, "Gene Palmiter"
wrote:

That is how I work....when I am lucky. Questions?

I have no questions. But I do have a few comments.

It's an "okay" snapshot, but you could do with some cropping off
the bottom. There's a lot of wasted space there that adds nothing
to the composition. The subject matter does not lend itself well
to a square format. Not much dynamic impact to it other than the
3 crossed forms of transport for your theme. It could do with
some of that contrast that you so painstakingly removed, in
error. A much better shot could have been had if you had means to
get out into the river, then you could have composed it properly
and avoided that tree in the way.

Too bad you couldn't crop the tree out from the right as that's
just a distraction. But if you do then you end up with the
subject matter even more centered which would make it it even
more uninteresting than it already is.

Methinks you have been drinking too much tequila or smoking too
much pot. There's nothing extraordinary about the photo other
than in your own mind. I fail to see how you think you got
"lucky", and for all the work you put into it just to come up
with something that's so average.

One other thing I just noticed, put down the bottle of tequila.
Your horizon isn't level. A quick tip: find some reflection in
the water in the center of a photo (so it is not plagued by
distortion from the lens' FOV distortions at the sides), and line
it up perfectly vertical with the object causing the reflection,
using your photo editing software. Then your unseen horizon and
water will be truly level.

If you were intending on posting this publicly you could have at
least used the light-poles on the bridge as your reference. They
are set up with plumb-bobs and spirit levels. You didn't even
bother to make it vertical to those, nor bother using the struts
in the train bridge (which are closer to the lens' center and
less prone to angular distortion).

What's that old saying about "pride goeth before the fall," or
something like that. I believe you've provided a classic case to
prove it is true.

Keep trying though, you might come up with something worth
bragging about one day.

Good-luck in the contest because that's where you'll really need
the luck with this snapshot the way it is. I'm not sure you could
salvage a contest entry out of it without severe cropping and
levels work.

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 04:01:31 GMT, "Gene Palmiter"
wrote:

That is how I work....when I am lucky. Questions?

I have no questions. But I do have a few comments.

It's an "okay" snapshot, but you could do with some cropping off
the bottom. There's a lot of wasted space there that adds nothing
to the composition. The subject matter does not lend itself well
to a square format. Not much dynamic impact to it other than the
3 crossed forms of transport for your theme. It could do with
some of that contrast that you so painstakingly removed, in
error. A much better shot could have been had if you had means to
get out into the river, then you could have composed it properly
and avoided that tree in the way.

Too bad you couldn't crop the tree out from the right as that's
just a distraction. But if you do then you end up with the
subject matter even more centered which would make it it even
more uninteresting than it already is.

Methinks you have been drinking too much tequila or smoking too
much pot. There's nothing extraordinary about the photo other
than in your own mind. I fail to see how you think you got
"lucky", and for all the work you put into it just to come up
with something that's so average.

One other thing I just noticed, put down the bottle of tequila.
Your horizon isn't level. A quick tip: find some reflection in
the water in the center of a photo (so it is not plagued by
distortion from the lens' FOV distortions at the sides), and line
it up perfectly vertical with the object causing the reflection,
using your photo editing software. Then your unseen horizon and
water will be truly level.

If you were intending on posting this publicly you could have at
least used the light-poles on the bridge as your reference. They
are set up with plumb-bobs and spirit levels. You didn't even
bother to make it vertical to those, nor bother using the struts
in the train bridge (which are closer to the lens' center and
less prone to angular distortion).

What's that old saying about "pride goeth before the fall," or
something like that. I believe you've provided a classic case to
prove it is true.

Keep trying though, you might come up with something worth
bragging about one day.

Good-luck in the contest because that's where you'll really need
the luck with this snapshot the way it is. I'm not sure you could
salvage a contest entry out of it without severe cropping and
levels work.

Well...you certainly went to a lot of trouble to give your opinions. I
disagree on virtually every point. Anyone else want to wade in on this?

It's an "okay" snapshot, but you could do with some cropping off
the bottom. There's a lot of wasted space there that adds nothing
to the composition. The subject matter does not lend itself well
to a square format. Not much dynamic impact to it other than the
3 crossed forms of transport for your theme. It could do with
some of that contrast that you so painstakingly removed, in
error. A much better shot could have been had if you had means to
get out into the river, then you could have composed it properly
and avoided that tree in the way.

The space at the bottom tells the metaphysical story. It's the path....and
if there is a tree or other obstacle in the path....well...aren't there
always? Your observation about being square....um....its a rectangle.
Histogram shows full dynamic range....so you are factualy wrong there, too.
This is for an art contest, not a camera club contest so the rules of
composition as found in the pamphlets that come with your camera realy can
be expanded. If I had been able to get out into the water then I would have
miss out on the warning triangle that from this angle might be seen as
caution notice about the paths we all must choose....and I like the look of
those ripples in the bottom right corner.

Too bad you couldn't crop the tree out from the right as that's
just a distraction. But if you do then you end up with the
subject matter even more centered which would make it it even
more uninteresting than it already is.

A centered photograph is static and keeps pulling the eye back while the
lines push the eye outwards. This contrasts makes for a more interesting
composition to many of us though it does break the camera club rules.

Your horizon isn't level. A quick tip: find some reflection in
the water in the center of a photo (so it is not plagued by
distortion from the lens' FOV distortions at the sides), and line
it up perfectly vertical with the object causing the reflection,
using your photo editing software. Then your unseen horizon and
water will be truly level.

I doubled checked and, while there is no horizon in the photo there is a
waterline. Its straight in the photograph so you might want to check your
monitor.

If you were intending on posting this publicly you could have at
least used the light-poles on the bridge as your reference. They
are set up with plumb-bobs and spirit levels. You didn't even
bother to make it vertical to those, nor bother using the struts
in the train bridge (which are closer to the lens' center and
less prone to angular distortion).

What's that old saying about "pride goeth before the fall," or
something like that. I believe you've provided a classic case to
prove it is true.

Keep trying though, you might come up with something worth
bragging about one day.

Good-luck in the contest because that's where you'll really need
the luck with this snapshot the way it is. I'm not sure you could
salvage a contest entry out of it without severe cropping and
levels work.

Looking at photographs is as much an art as taking them....keep working at
it and in a few years you might develop into some sort of critic. I suggest
reading some critiques by Minor White.

Gene Palmiter responds:

Well...you certainly went to a lot of trouble to give your opinions. I
disagree on virtually every point. Anyone else want to wade in on this?

Yeah, he did, without giving his name.


Looking at photographs is as much an art as taking them....keep working at
it and in a few years you might develop into some sort of critic. I suggest
reading some critiques by Minor White.


That's mean.

FWIW, I thought it was a damned good photo. Not the kind of stuff I do, but
that's not relevant.

Charlie Self
"Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy." Edgar
Bergen, (Charlie McCarthy)

Gene Palmiter wrote:

http://www.dotphoto.com/Go.asp?l=pal...D=57755206&T=1

I will be discussing this photo. Sorry, but what you see is not large enough
to show all its potential.



Cluttered.




--
-- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
-- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--

Sorry, but it doesn't do anything for me. The sky is flat and uninteresting,
there no visual center of interest, and the expanse of water in the
foreground dominates the scene.

"Gene Palmiter" wrote in message
news:vgM5d.18939$Wa7.15978@trndny06...
http://www.dotphoto.com/Go.asp?l=pal...D=57755206&T=1

I will be discussing this photo. Sorry, but what you see is not large
enough
to show all its potential.

Last night I got word of a contest for photographs of the Delaware River
and
environs. I was up early this AM so I set out on foot from my home in
Easton
PA. The Forks of the Delaware and the Lehigh Rivers are just a half mile
from my home. I carried just my Oly E-10 (4MP) and a tripod. It was about
7:30 AM. The air was clear...low moisture. The sun was not yet up but
there
was light. There are parks and walking paths along the rivers and I
followed
them. We had catastrophic floods last week but the rivers were back down.
I
examined the piles of debris left by the waters but didn't find anything.
A
few hundred yards along I saw this scene. There is a fence and a dam that
I
didn't want in the photo....so I set up close to the fence so I could
shoot
over it. Zooming in I got the scene that you see....here it's trimmed for
8x10 but at full frame it works well too. Knowing that I wanted to
compress
the range of tones I set the camera for RAW and bracketed by 2 stops. I
took
about three series of shots. Some were messed up by moving cars or birds.

Back home I loaded Photoshop and pulled up the RAW files. Looking over the
thumbnails I found the set with the most potential and brought up the
middle
exposure. I let is set for a bit while I smoked my pipe. The color was
unimportant to the scene. The print would be displayed with film based
prints from other serious photographers and judged by film photographers
so
I desaturated the scene to bring out the textures. I adjusted contrast and
tones for the fullest possible range and processed them all the same.

The bridges were too dark and the sky too light so I sandwiched the middle
exposure with the darkest. The lightest added nothing so I dismissed it.
Erasing the darkest areas of the bridges and the trees I got this full
ranged photograph.

I shot on instinct. I knew it was a good scene but the full "Zen-ness" of
it
took time to be realized. I named it Many Paths. This photo is worth a
thousand words and I won't go into it all here. The viewer has to do some
of
the work. I took the file over to a friend's house where he has a good
Epson
7-color printer. We discussed how we could print it....and then started
drinking Tequila...the $50 a bottle stuff. This is a photo to celebrate
with
the good stuff!

That is how I work....when I am lucky. Questions?
--
Thanks,
Gene Palmiter
freebridge design group
freebridge magazine

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 14:59:15 GMT, "Gene Palmiter"
wrote:

Well...you certainly went to a lot of trouble to give your opinions. I
disagree on virtually every point. Anyone else want to wade in on this?

It's an "okay" snapshot, but you could do with some cropping off
the bottom. There's a lot of wasted space there that adds nothing
to the composition. The subject matter does not lend itself well
to a square format. Not much dynamic impact to it other than the
3 crossed forms of transport for your theme. It could do with
some of that contrast that you so painstakingly removed, in
error. A much better shot could have been had if you had means to
get out into the river, then you could have composed it properly
and avoided that tree in the way.

The space at the bottom tells the metaphysical story. It's the path....and
if there is a tree or other obstacle in the path....well...aren't there
always? Your observation about being square....um....its a rectangle.
Histogram shows full dynamic range....so you are factualy wrong there, too.
This is for an art contest, not a camera club contest so the rules of
composition as found in the pamphlets that come with your camera realy can
be expanded. If I had been able to get out into the water then I would have
miss out on the warning triangle that from this angle might be seen as
caution notice about the paths we all must choose....and I like the look of
those ripples in the bottom right corner.

Too bad you couldn't crop the tree out from the right as that's
just a distraction. But if you do then you end up with the
subject matter even more centered which would make it it even
more uninteresting than it already is.

A centered photograph is static and keeps pulling the eye back while the
lines push the eye outwards. This contrasts makes for a more interesting
composition to many of us though it does break the camera club rules.

Your horizon isn't level. A quick tip: find some reflection in
the water in the center of a photo (so it is not plagued by
distortion from the lens' FOV distortions at the sides), and line
it up perfectly vertical with the object causing the reflection,
using your photo editing software. Then your unseen horizon and
water will be truly level.

I doubled checked and, while there is no horizon in the photo there is a
waterline. Its straight in the photograph so you might want to check your
monitor.

If you were intending on posting this publicly you could have at
least used the light-poles on the bridge as your reference. They
are set up with plumb-bobs and spirit levels. You didn't even
bother to make it vertical to those, nor bother using the struts
in the train bridge (which are closer to the lens' center and
less prone to angular distortion).

What's that old saying about "pride goeth before the fall," or
something like that. I believe you've provided a classic case to
prove it is true.

Keep trying though, you might come up with something worth
bragging about one day.

Good-luck in the contest because that's where you'll really need
the luck with this snapshot the way it is. I'm not sure you could
salvage a contest entry out of it without severe cropping and
levels work.

Looking at photographs is as much an art as taking them....keep working at
it and in a few years you might develop into some sort of critic. I suggest
reading some critiques by Minor White.


Since you're apparently interested only in adulation rather
than criticism, perhaps you should post your dull, metaphysical
pomposity in alt.horribly.self-absorbed.

"Gene Palmiter" writes:

http://www.dotphoto.com/Go.asp?l=pal...D=57755206&T=1

I will be discussing this photo. Sorry, but what you see is not large enough
to show all its potential.

I think that's a first problem. I suspect that there are lots of very nice
textures in there, but the image is not large enough to appreciate them.

SNIP
exposure. I let is set for a bit while I smoked my pipe. The color was
unimportant to the scene. The print would be displayed with film based
prints from other serious photographers and judged by film photographers so
I desaturated the scene to bring out the textures. I adjusted contrast and
tones for the fullest possible range and processed them all the same.

Well, I agree with you in theory, but with the small image, I can't confirm
it. I'll take your word: it seems to me to be an image that deals with
textures. I would have liked, though, to see something in the sky. Is there
something there in the full-sized copy?

SNIP
That is how I work....when I am lucky. Questions?

I agree with the anonymous guy who says there's too much in the bottom. The
buoy certainly takes away from the calmness of the water, and I'd have
cropped it. Again, the lack of any textures in the sky is a definite
problem from my point of view -- just blank white (well, near-white -- a
very light grey) on an otherwise nicely composed image of a multitude of
textures.

I took the liberty of copying your image and cropping it at the bottom:
http://www.civex.com/horizontalCrop.jpg
I'll leave it there for a couple of days, then delete it.

While tastes and judgments are personal, and I don't argue with the
feelings the photo obviously brings to you, the horizontal crop works
better for me, compressing the textures into more nearly the subject of the
photo -- which may not be _your_ subject at all -- and lets me "feel the
Zen" of the moment better than with the base with its featureless
glare and the distracting white buoy. I don't expect you to agree, but I do
hope you can see another viewpoint of your photo.
--
Philip Stripling | email to the replyto address is presumed
Legal Assistance on the Web | spam and read later. email to philip@
http://www.PhilipStripling.com/ | my domain is read daily.

Gene Palmiter wrote:


I will be discussing this photo. Sorry, but what you see is not large enough
to show all its potential.
That is how I work....when I am lucky. Questions?

I have a question or two - I wonder what ever happened in your life to
make you feel so terribly smug, patronising and self-important? Who
appointed you as professor of the local master class? It's a grey and
contrastless, cluttered and compositionless picture. There's so much
going on in it, and all so far away, that I simply can't work out
exactly what *is* going on.
Fi