bad neg msytery

Taking an unexposed sheet DIRECTLY from the pack (open a new one) and
processing it is the only way I can think of to determine whether
defective film is involved or not.


Richard Knoppow wrote:
"Art Reitsch" wrote in message
...
I just posted this note on the large format group as it
involves 4x5 negs developed in a traditional darkroom.
In the past few months I have printed two or three images
from 4x5 negs that have many very small white spots on the
16x20 print. The negatives show that the black neg spots
are not "on" the neg like dust spots, but exposed onto it.
Yesterday I made two bald sky exposures, one with my 210mm
and the other with my 150mm as I'm sure the trouble negs
were exposed by one of these lenses. The 210mm showed a
hundred or more tiny black spots. But only two hours
before I shot some still lifes with this lens, developed
all negs at the same time in the same chemicals and those
negs were perfect. The film is Kodak Tri-X 320 TXP film
purchased within the last year. I always expose with an
f-stop in the mid range, neither wide open nor with a very
small aperature. The problem seems to be bad film, but
randomly appearing from the same pack. Or am I missing
something? Any ideas?
Art


This is pretty puzzling. Have you examined the spots with
a strong magnifier. Check the surface of the film. This
might tell you if there was a coating problem. I very much
doubt that its due to out gassing as was suggested by
another poster. Outgassing in acid stop bath happens only
when the developer contains carbonate, which HC-110 does
not. In any case, it does not seem to be problem with modern
films.
I can't think of anything that would produce _sharp_
black spots on negatives. Almost everything, pinholes in the
camera or reflections from something, produce blured spots.
Perhaps the holder dark slide has holes in it but I've never
seen such a thing and it would probably produce streaks not
spots. I don't suppose you were using a focal plane shutter.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

Thanks for all the thoughts. I posted my original note on
rec.photo.equipment.large-format also and received a really outstanding
reply, fairly lengthy, which I recommend reading for everyone. It's the
one from Michael Gudzinowicz. I've tightened up my development
procedure following his suggestions but think he may have hit on the
problem I outlined since I seem to be in good shape on his other ideas.
He suggests inadequate agitation during fixing. Inadequate? I don't
agitate at all except for a lift or two on the film holders during the
eight minutes of fixing (he suggests 10 minutes). I'm also adding some
alcohol to the Photoflo for the final rinse.
But I think all his suggestions are worth looking at for anyone
developing film. These newsgroups sure pay off!
Art

UC wrote:

Taking an unexposed sheet DIRECTLY from the pack (open a new one) and
processing it is the only way I can think of to determine whether
defective film is involved or not.


Richard Knoppow wrote:


"Art Reitsch" wrote in message
...


I just posted this note on the large format group as it
involves 4x5 negs developed in a traditional darkroom.
In the past few months I have printed two or three images
from 4x5 negs that have many very small white spots on the
16x20 print. The negatives show that the black neg spots
are not "on" the neg like dust spots, but exposed onto it.
Yesterday I made two bald sky exposures, one with my 210mm
and the other with my 150mm as I'm sure the trouble negs
were exposed by one of these lenses. The 210mm showed a
hundred or more tiny black spots. But only two hours
before I shot some still lifes with this lens, developed
all negs at the same time in the same chemicals and those
negs were perfect. The film is Kodak Tri-X 320 TXP film
purchased within the last year. I always expose with an
f-stop in the mid range, neither wide open nor with a very
small aperature. The problem seems to be bad film, but
randomly appearing from the same pack. Or am I missing
something? Any ideas?
Art



This is pretty puzzling. Have you examined the spots with
a strong magnifier. Check the surface of the film. This
might tell you if there was a coating problem. I very much
doubt that its due to out gassing as was suggested by
another poster. Outgassing in acid stop bath happens only
when the developer contains carbonate, which HC-110 does
not. In any case, it does not seem to be problem with modern
films.
I can't think of anything that would produce _sharp_
black spots on negatives. Almost everything, pinholes in the
camera or reflections from something, produce blured spots.
Perhaps the holder dark slide has holes in it but I've never
seen such a thing and it would probably produce streaks not
spots. I don't suppose you were using a focal plane shutter.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

You should agitate vigorously during fixing. Why have you not been
doing this?

Art Reitsch wrote:
Thanks for all the thoughts. I posted my original note on
rec.photo.equipment.large-format also and received a really outstanding
reply, fairly lengthy, which I recommend reading for everyone. It's the
one from Michael Gudzinowicz. I've tightened up my development
procedure following his suggestions but think he may have hit on the
problem I outlined since I seem to be in good shape on his other ideas.
He suggests inadequate agitation during fixing. Inadequate? I don't
agitate at all except for a lift or two on the film holders during the
eight minutes of fixing (he suggests 10 minutes). I'm also adding some
alcohol to the Photoflo for the final rinse.
But I think all his suggestions are worth looking at for anyone
developing film. These newsgroups sure pay off!
Art

UC wrote:

Taking an unexposed sheet DIRECTLY from the pack (open a new one) and
processing it is the only way I can think of to determine whether
defective film is involved or not.


Richard Knoppow wrote:


"Art Reitsch" wrote in message
...


I just posted this note on the large format group as it
involves 4x5 negs developed in a traditional darkroom.
In the past few months I have printed two or three images
from 4x5 negs that have many very small white spots on the
16x20 print. The negatives show that the black neg spots
are not "on" the neg like dust spots, but exposed onto it.
Yesterday I made two bald sky exposures, one with my 210mm
and the other with my 150mm as I'm sure the trouble negs
were exposed by one of these lenses. The 210mm showed a
hundred or more tiny black spots. But only two hours
before I shot some still lifes with this lens, developed
all negs at the same time in the same chemicals and those
negs were perfect. The film is Kodak Tri-X 320 TXP film
purchased within the last year. I always expose with an
f-stop in the mid range, neither wide open nor with a very
small aperature. The problem seems to be bad film, but
randomly appearing from the same pack. Or am I missing
something? Any ideas?
Art



This is pretty puzzling. Have you examined the spots with
a strong magnifier. Check the surface of the film. This
might tell you if there was a coating problem. I very much
doubt that its due to out gassing as was suggested by
another poster. Outgassing in acid stop bath happens only
when the developer contains carbonate, which HC-110 does
not. In any case, it does not seem to be problem with modern
films.
I can't think of anything that would produce _sharp_
black spots on negatives. Almost everything, pinholes in the
camera or reflections from something, produce blured spots.
Perhaps the holder dark slide has holes in it but I've never
seen such a thing and it would probably produce streaks not
spots. I don't suppose you were using a focal plane shutter.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

Because I missed this step during the workshop I took from Barnbaum. I
looked at his book, the most recent edition, and found his instructions,
not underlined by me as are many other instruction passages. He says
agitate two or more minutes and fix for a total of 7-10 minutes. So the
instructions are there, I just missed them. But I'm going with 10
minutes of continuous agitation as advised by the poster I mentioned.
Also, I never had a problem through 300+ negatives so wasn't motivated
to research and learn the right way.
Art

UC wrote:

You should agitate vigorously during fixing. Why have you not been
doing this?

Art Reitsch wrote:


Thanks for all the thoughts. I posted my original note on
rec.photo.equipment.large-format also and received a really outstanding
reply, fairly lengthy, which I recommend reading for everyone. It's the
one from Michael Gudzinowicz. I've tightened up my development
procedure following his suggestions but think he may have hit on the
problem I outlined since I seem to be in good shape on his other ideas.
He suggests inadequate agitation during fixing. Inadequate? I don't
agitate at all except for a lift or two on the film holders during the
eight minutes of fixing (he suggests 10 minutes). I'm also adding some
alcohol to the Photoflo for the final rinse.
But I think all his suggestions are worth looking at for anyone
developing film. These newsgroups sure pay off!
Art

UC wrote:



Taking an unexposed sheet DIRECTLY from the pack (open a new one) and
processing it is the only way I can think of to determine whether
defective film is involved or not.


Richard Knoppow wrote:




"Art Reitsch" wrote in message
...




I just posted this note on the large format group as it
involves 4x5 negs developed in a traditional darkroom.
In the past few months I have printed two or three images


from 4x5 negs that have many very small white spots on the


16x20 print. The negatives show that the black neg spots
are not "on" the neg like dust spots, but exposed onto it.
Yesterday I made two bald sky exposures, one with my 210mm
and the other with my 150mm as I'm sure the trouble negs
were exposed by one of these lenses. The 210mm showed a
hundred or more tiny black spots. But only two hours
before I shot some still lifes with this lens, developed
all negs at the same time in the same chemicals and those
negs were perfect. The film is Kodak Tri-X 320 TXP film
purchased within the last year. I always expose with an
f-stop in the mid range, neither wide open nor with a very
small aperature. The problem seems to be bad film, but
randomly appearing from the same pack. Or am I missing
something? Any ideas?
Art





This is pretty puzzling. Have you examined the spots with
a strong magnifier. Check the surface of the film. This
might tell you if there was a coating problem. I very much
doubt that its due to out gassing as was suggested by
another poster. Outgassing in acid stop bath happens only
when the developer contains carbonate, which HC-110 does
not. In any case, it does not seem to be problem with modern
films.
I can't think of anything that would produce _sharp_
black spots on negatives. Almost everything, pinholes in the
camera or reflections from something, produce blured spots.
Perhaps the holder dark slide has holes in it but I've never
seen such a thing and it would probably produce streaks not
spots. I don't suppose you were using a focal plane shutter.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

1. Use Rapid Fixer
2. Agitate vigorously
3. Fix 3-5 minutes, no more


Art Reitsch wrote:
Because I missed this step during the workshop I took from Barnbaum. I
looked at his book, the most recent edition, and found his instructions,
not underlined by me as are many other instruction passages. He says
agitate two or more minutes and fix for a total of 7-10 minutes. So the
instructions are there, I just missed them. But I'm going with 10
minutes of continuous agitation as advised by the poster I mentioned.
Also, I never had a problem through 300+ negatives so wasn't motivated
to research and learn the right way.
Art

UC wrote:

You should agitate vigorously during fixing. Why have you not been
doing this?

Art Reitsch wrote:


Thanks for all the thoughts. I posted my original note on
rec.photo.equipment.large-format also and received a really outstanding
reply, fairly lengthy, which I recommend reading for everyone. It's the
one from Michael Gudzinowicz. I've tightened up my development
procedure following his suggestions but think he may have hit on the
problem I outlined since I seem to be in good shape on his other ideas.
He suggests inadequate agitation during fixing. Inadequate? I don't
agitate at all except for a lift or two on the film holders during the
eight minutes of fixing (he suggests 10 minutes). I'm also adding some
alcohol to the Photoflo for the final rinse.
But I think all his suggestions are worth looking at for anyone
developing film. These newsgroups sure pay off!
Art

UC wrote:



Taking an unexposed sheet DIRECTLY from the pack (open a new one) and
processing it is the only way I can think of to determine whether
defective film is involved or not.


Richard Knoppow wrote:




"Art Reitsch" wrote in message
...




I just posted this note on the large format group as it
involves 4x5 negs developed in a traditional darkroom.
In the past few months I have printed two or three images


from 4x5 negs that have many very small white spots on the


16x20 print. The negatives show that the black neg spots
are not "on" the neg like dust spots, but exposed onto it.
Yesterday I made two bald sky exposures, one with my 210mm
and the other with my 150mm as I'm sure the trouble negs
were exposed by one of these lenses. The 210mm showed a
hundred or more tiny black spots. But only two hours
before I shot some still lifes with this lens, developed
all negs at the same time in the same chemicals and those
negs were perfect. The film is Kodak Tri-X 320 TXP film
purchased within the last year. I always expose with an
f-stop in the mid range, neither wide open nor with a very
small aperature. The problem seems to be bad film, but
randomly appearing from the same pack. Or am I missing
something? Any ideas?
Art





This is pretty puzzling. Have you examined the spots with
a strong magnifier. Check the surface of the film. This
might tell you if there was a coating problem. I very much
doubt that its due to out gassing as was suggested by
another poster. Outgassing in acid stop bath happens only
when the developer contains carbonate, which HC-110 does
not. In any case, it does not seem to be problem with modern
films.
I can't think of anything that would produce _sharp_
black spots on negatives. Almost everything, pinholes in the
camera or reflections from something, produce blured spots.
Perhaps the holder dark slide has holes in it but I've never
seen such a thing and it would probably produce streaks not
spots. I don't suppose you were using a focal plane shutter.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

I was plagued by "white spots" despite using all filtered water & chemicals.
I reprinted and lo' and behold, more spots, but in different locations on
the paper. It's was the papers fault. I now use a premier paper, but once in
a while a couple of spots.

Ray


"Art Reitsch" wrote in message
...
I just posted this note on the large format group as it involves 4x5 negs
developed in a traditional darkroom.
In the past few months I have printed two or three images from 4x5 negs
that have many very small white spots on the 16x20 print. The negatives
show that the black neg spots are not "on" the neg like dust spots, but
exposed onto it. Yesterday I made two bald sky exposures, one with my
210mm and the other with my 150mm as I'm sure the trouble negs were
exposed by one of these lenses. The 210mm showed a hundred or more tiny
black spots. But only two hours before I shot some still lifes with this
lens, developed all negs at the same time in the same chemicals and those
negs were perfect. The film is Kodak Tri-X 320 TXP film purchased within
the last year. I always expose with an f-stop in the mid range, neither
wide open nor with a very small aperature. The problem seems to be bad
film, but randomly appearing from the same pack. Or am I missing
something? Any ideas?
Art